Flesh Cult: Grafting and Monster-Making(Please help)

[Little Brother]

Yes, me again.

Question: For the campaign I'm running, there's a group of fanatical nutjobs who religiously believe it is their duty to create more perfect beings, perfect ranging from grotesque to abomination to the gods. They are responsible ffor the creation of trolls, hydras, and the like. Only the more extreme sects go for involuntary human experimentation, except when no-one's looking, because the more mainstream one is sponsored by a large nation, to keep tabs on them as much as benefit from their creations.

So, basically, crazy casters create grafts and monsters. Not averse to undead bits, but they view constructs and full undeads as abominations to whatever twisted thing they believe in is.

EDIT: The purpose of this is to make monsters, through magic, grafts, etc, not be a monster, except through grafts and such. I'm thinking Artificer->Fleshwarper, but I dunno. Thoughts?

So, how to make them? I am not apposed to homebrew, though I would prefer real stuff. Dragon is acceptable.

As a side note, I would like ideas for generic NPCs, NPCs with faces and names, and a PC(I have a member considering playing one)

Thanks for any help. I am completely lost on how to do this.

[Curious]

Synthesist Summoner sounds like a good bet. You get to add more stuff to yourself at every level.

[ThatLovin'Elan]

Aegis if you have it (Psionics Expanded); Totemist; Alchemist (with lots of extra limbs, tumor familiar, etc.); Barbarian with Totems that grant cool things; Aberration Bloodline Sorcerer; hmmm...maybe an Infiltrator Ranger with the right fluff?

Edit: If you're 3.5 only, Totemist is your best bet; they're all about having random limbs and monster abilities :D

[Little Brother]

Allow me to rephrase, I thought I put it up there.

Grafts are one thing they need to focus on. I know the fleshwarper is a good choice, but I have no idea on how to optimize it. Does the Artificer reductiony thingies help with Grafts?

I've see them referenced, but I've never seen it. What are the rule for researching one's own spell? Are there ways to make new creatures without Epic Casting, or would I be stuck with fiat and grafts?

More that sorta thing. I want them to MAKE the monsters, not summon the monster or be the monster.

That make more sense?

[umbergod]

Allow me to rephrase, I thought I put it up there.

Grafts are one thing they need to focus on. I know the fleshwarper is a good choice, but I have no idea on how to optimize it. Does the Artificer reductiony thingies help with Grafts?

I've see them referenced, but I've never seen it. What are the rule for researching one's own spell? Are there ways to make new creatures without Epic Casting, or would I be stuck with fiat and grafts?

More that sorta thing. I want them to MAKE the monsters, not summon the monster or be the monster.

That make more sense?

its 3rd party, but the handbook for orcs and 1/2 orcs has something like that. i dont remember the name of it, and i think its 3.0 ruling, but some retooling would make it perfect. uses handle animal to force monsters to breed, and the PrC lets you hybridize your monsters more effectively

[Coidzor]

I've see them referenced, but I've never seen it. What are the rule for researching one's own spell? Are there ways to make new creatures without Epic Casting, or would I be stuck with fiat and grafts?

Well, depending upon how you view the power level of X level spells and wizards/archivists researching new spells, you might be able to have 8th-9thish spells along those lines.

As it is though, if they're homebrewing a new kind of creature, that's irrevocably DM fiat territory.

If you haven't already, take a gander at Marruspawn and their background fluff in Sandstorm, btw.

And Eldan's Lair of the Fleshweaver (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216912) thread over on the homebrew subforum.

I'm in the research/groundwork laying phase on a little bit of a subsystem along these lines in terms of homebrew, though I created a creature that likes to do something similar(I call it Bone-Knitting because I am silly and unoriginal) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219408) to play around with my ideas. Pretty much a WIP that I need to get the fluff out of my head and coherently down on paper at this point though, but you may find it interesting if I'm reading your interests right.

[Gotterdammerung]

Hmm, good question.

The monster entries always brag about how it is rumored certain monsters were created by mages. But there never is any game mechanics for creating things like hydras.

I always assumed it was the result of things like rituals. There are rules for rituals in unearthed arcana.

or from the result of wish spells.


If your looking for a super boss monster for endgame on this thing.

Look in serpent kingdoms at the nagahydra.

CR 18 mix of a hydra and a bunch of naga sorcerers.

casts as a 15th lvl sorcerer who can choose spells known from the sorcerer and the cleric list and the scalykind and destruction domains.

Each head can cast 1 spell each round. It has 7 heads.

Practiced spell caster brings its caster lvl back up to 18

3 lvls in any +1 casting prestige class will give it 9th lvl spells. CR 21

It's the kind of monster you get scared to pump up. I mean arcane fusions, greater arcane fusions plus some metamagic reductions and you get one bright supernova.

[Analytica]

Pathfinder: Inner Sea Magic has fleshshaping guidelines and some crunch.

[Maho-Tsukai]

While it's 3rd party, there is a PrC in the ultimate prestige class compendium(I forget which company made it) that focuses around making monsters. The only downside is that other then it's creature creation, the class sucks because instead of advancing casting it has it's own spell list and progression, despite the pre-requs being caster centric(including a spell focus feat in necromancy). I forget the name of the class, though.

[Little Brother]

Sweet, thanks for all the good input!

So it looks like I'm gonna have to go 3rd party or homebrew to get the creature creation. That's fine

Now, how can I optimize a Fleshwarper? Do things that advance spellcasters advance Artificers? That would be a great fluffy entry, I'd think.

Thanks for the the input so far.

[Drewski]

Sounds like you need the XenoAlchemist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205119). It basically replaces the Grafting runs and makes them work well. The only downside is that it is homebrew.

[Coidzor]

Now, how can I optimize a Fleshwarper?

From what I recall, familiar-fu is one of the Fleshwarper's fortes, as is being a transmutation specialist GOD sans one CL. The problem is that the Graft Flesh feat has a hidden cost in the Heal skill that the class write-up doesn't mention, so it's hard to take much after Fleshwarper without a cloistered cleric dip. Can squeeze in master specialist beforehand if you really want. Potentially PrCs that progress an existing class's class features might progress the graft reserve past 10.

Or, certain wonky familiar/X "demisupermount" builds might enjoy it.


Do things that advance spellcasters advance Artificers? That would be a great fluffy entry, I'd think.

From what I recall, by RAW, only a few of them would and only a few of them the artificer could qualify for, but if you're willing to relax things, then sure.

You'd have to remake the pre-requisites entirely for artificers to qualify or make homunculi count as familiars for pre-reqs or make them count for taking obtain familiar, which is its own kettle of fish.