So I joined a new group and... (part rant, part request for advice))

[Rising Phoenix]

Hello everyone,

After moving house and city I've finally managed to find a new group... and well I am not having fun...

Why?

Well let's start with the worst offender: 1)They argue over the rules a lot... This is partly because they 'like' doing so and partly because the DM and many of the players are new to PF... The later is fine and perfectly understandable, but it doesn't help that the DM likes following the rules to the letter and is unwilling to wing it (he says he is... but after him and a player debating invisibility and how it effects AoO for 3 hours I...don't believe him.). Now I told them that I've played 3rd edition for the last 10 years and that I am willing to help with this kind of stuff (I don't know everything and don't know all the changes in PF, but I know enough) but they won't listen to me. I think that this due to a) me being new in their circle and that's understandable and b) they don't seem to understand/want to make the rules of secondary importance (in which case this is the wrong group for me).

2) It's a low wealth, low magic world, BUT spellcasters are still allowed and of course are not gimped so much as mundane characters. Case in point: I rolled a rogue, cause I thought: Hey! 'All the other roles are filled in the party so they'll need a skill monkey'. All's good and then I get introduced... naked... lost all my gear... I am ok with this... but in three sessions we haven't been given a single GP, have been facing hordes of brutish Orcs and apart from Stealth my character's useless... In the meantime the sorcerer still raining death with fireballs and web and the trickery domain cleric going invisible and summoning hordes of dire poodles.

which doesn't help-

3) -When the DM gives only exp for killing things and disarming traps... Nope it doesn't matter that I sabotaged the army by screwing up their supplies and burning down tents, that doesn't matter, cause I didn't kill anything... Oh and no we don't get any exp for running through the camp under the effects of invisibility and silence we still get 0 exp for that cause we didn't kill anything... whilst surrounded by thousands of orcs and doing so would have killed us... (:smallfurious:)

Since the DM is a rules lawyer I've sent him the relevant text from the SRD where it says we should get exp for overcoming challenges and completing quests. I've also sent him the rules experts for some other things (like stealth and sniping etc.)

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So what should I do playground? Leave? They seem like good people, but the above make me cringe more often than laugh... I don't want to come of as aggressive in this kind of situation cause I don't enjoy arguing, I am new to the group and always think I am stepping on others people toes... If I had the time I would GM a session for them and hopefully give them an idea of my kind of play: fun>story>>>>rules. This may simply not be suitable for them, but they seem to have never experienced this kind of play.

Oh and on another note: The GM is going away for the next few weeks so someone's replacing him for a few sessions... We rolled stats and were given free reign over the PF srd, we start at lv 3... but the starting amount of wealth? 300 gp... I wanted to play a zen archer monk, but screw that. I will be going Druid instead with the scribe scroll feat...

[Gotterdammerung]

Passive solution

-Learn ways to manipulate the situation. Phrases like "Look Bob, I think your right too, but he is the GM and it is his call, so just let it go so we can keep playing."

- Play characters that don't rely heavily on wealth, since he is stingy.


-Play builds that peak earlier so you aren't so hungry for the next lvl. Then the speed of XP won't be such a big deal. The later a build peaks the stronger it is, but groups like this usually don't last all the way to 20.


Bookworm solution

-Bring a laptop and use online sources to quickly resolve disputes.

-Take notes of final rule resolutions. They will come up again, and then you can site previous rulings as law.


Aggressive Solution

- Tell them they ruining the game by being so petty.

- Use lots of sarcasm.

- Make fun of their flimsy grasp of the English language during rules debates. Ask them if English is their second, or possibly third language. Buy them English for dummies, Rosetta Stone- English, and a dictionary for Christmas.


- Make your next character a mass murdering violent villain. Rub it in. When the GM gets upset about it, say "Well i wanted to play a subtle character who used guile and subtle influences to make his way in the world, but you are stingy with your gold and you don't award exp for out of combat challenges, so I figured I would respect your wishes and play the character you obviously wanted me to be, a violent psychopathic murderer tyrant who will even murder women and children for their copper pieces."


Easy Solution

- Leave the game

Vindictive solution

- Leave the game and also tell them why your leaving.


Hippy Solution

- Take over to run a game

- make it fun and light

- Be patient and slowly teach the group the merits of your style of play



Adaptive Solution

- every DM applies their own changes to the rules. Every system can be gamed. Most DM's do not grow until their system has been gamed.

- Adjust to the DM's style, then break the hell out of his world.

- Watch as he dives into the rules to counter your brokedness. Thus becoming a more learned DM.

-Keep breaking the game. If he makes an adjustment, or nerfs something, then take a moment to adjust and break the new system. Keep breaking it until it becomes a problem for the table.

THEN

- Talk with him. Tell him you don't want to play anything broke. You were just tired of being boned and he was being anal about everything and screwing the players. Tell him you were sorry and you just want to play a game with a good story and a good character and not be in fear of getting boned or having to listen to a bunch of banal arguments.

[Rising Phoenix]

snip.

hahaha. Thanks for making me laugh, I needed one :). I think that I am going to try the adaptive solution along with a few the other things you mentioned. I will probably run a game for the too to show them how I do it. But if these don't work, I'll just leave.

[Thyrian]

Bummer dude, it sounds like you've really only got two options.

Option 1 DM and Hope: Wait for a chance to DM and show them a different style of playing- if they like it, it'll take and you're in luck!

Option 2: Acknowledge they're not playing the same D&D that you've played and re-act accordingly, ignore 'rounding' the party out, pick your Druid and enjoy being level 9 when everyone else will be level 6 judging by how xp appears to be given out.

[Rising Phoenix]

Bummer dude, it sounds like you've really only got two options.

Option 1 DM and Hope: Wait for a chance to DM and show them a different style of playing- if they like it, it'll take and you're in luck!

Option 2: Acknowledge they're not playing the same D&D that you've played and re-act accordingly, ignore 'rounding' the party out, pick your Druid and enjoy being level 9 when everyone else will be level 6 judging by how xp appears to be given out.

Thank you Thyrian... I think my best chance is actually DMing a game or two for them... With my last group there were moments when the roleplaying got so good that you'd 'slip' out of your own speak so to speak. It was fantastic and I really miss it.