(PF) Ranger Advice/How To Survive a Technologically Superior Foe

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

So, my group had a TPK, my rogue outlasted the party, and yet still succumbed, so time to roll up new characters for a new campaign...

It looks like its going to be wilderness based; an idyllic society based in the outlying forests and mountains of a large trade based port city. City goes to war with an ex-trade partner, City begins harvesting much needed materials to supplement lost imports and to boost necessary war production, and thus begins warfare with happy woodland folk.

Catch being: City has access to libraries of arcane magic, and over a thousand years worth of technology, some of which includes steam technology, and a blend of arcane and steam technology... so, expect large arcane mech-like golem armor piloted by humans crushing nymphs, gnomes, dryads, and other such fair woodsy folk.

...As the party, we are expected to be the defenders of said idyllic woodsy peoples. Yeah... we get some piddling divine spells, and basic technology... like bows. (are we aiming for another TPK? is that worth a different discussion thread? probably to both.)

Anyway, Ive decided on a Ranger. In particular, a Nirmathi Irregular (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/nirmathi-irregular). We start at level 2. I have this so far...

1Finesse
1Pirhana Strike (Power attack for finesse weapons)
2(Bonus feat) Precise Shot

The DM is letting me have a +1 Agile Dagger for inspiring him to create this campaign. (Damn my eyes! Damn them!) Hence the Finesse, Piranha strike... However, I am still aiming for the Archery Ranger Path in general. So,Iguess IM making a switch hitter of sorts.

All I know is that I will be in a party of 3-4 people, one of which has decided on a Sable Company Marine (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/sable-company-marine) Ranger Archetype, focusing on archery/mounted archery.

EDIT: More Info:

I assume someone will be a Tier 1 hero and be a Druid, but who knows?

I think Stat system will be point buy, 20 or 25 points.

How do we (as a party) survive such a foe? They are numerically and technologically superior, have access to more powerful magics, and have more resources to throw at this war.

We have a semi-large woodland city set deep in the forest, some outlying villages and towns that blend seamlessly into nature, as well as some loosely allied bands of scouts, rangers, druids and other forest types. NO standing army, NO technology beyond what is usually seen in a D&D/Pathfinder game...

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Any ideas at all, for the character or how to survive a numerically stronger and more technologically advanced foe would be nice!

Thanks!

[Arbane]

Step 1: Find a history of the Vietnam War
Step 2: Apply as much of (1) as is possible to adapt.

[OverdrivePrime]

Pretty much. Guerilla tactics are not just your friend, they are your sword, shield and armor.

So is knowledge. Your team will want to learn as much about your technological foes as possible. Learn the weak points of their power armor. Learn how to disrupt steam technology. You are wilderness folk and strong! You have no need for the pitiful crutch of powered armor and cannons.

If any of you can max ranks in knowledge (engineering) do so without a moment's hesitation. You're going to want to monkeywrench those clanks whenever you can.

You'll have maneuverability and stealth on your side. And you'll have desperation. Desperation always helps.

Also remember: power armor needs to refuel, and humans need to pee. Aside from mid-climax, there isn't a less opportune time for a man to defend himself than when he's in the middle of waste evacuation. There's never be a better time to strike than when your foes literally have their pants down.

It helps if you can isolate them and pick them off one at a time.

Make sure someone on your team has some earth and mud related spells, and make sure that one of you is amazing at trapbuilding. Clanks are heavy and clumsy. If you can remove one from a fight, that's almost as good as destroying it, and with a lot less work involved.

[Dimers]

Technology, including the use of magic items without any actual magical aptitude, has certain vulnerabilities. Items that are destroyed no longer benefit the enemy. Items that are stolen don't benefit the enemy and might just benefit you. Items may have restrictions on their use, requirements like fuel or temperature limits, or dangers associated with their use. With a great deal of skill, items may be booby-trapped such that they BECOME dangerous to use. People are needed to operate the items, and said people can be targetted during the times they're not wearing/wielding/riding the items. People can be tricked, panicked, slain, converted. The physical and emotional needs of human beings are profound and numerous, so there's plenty of opportunity there. Item-using people within organizations can fall victim to the organization's weaknesses, such as reliance on chain of command or alienation of the local populace. Items that don't need people, e.g. golems and robots, usually have a form of sentience that's limited in a major way -- they don't think, they just follow orders.

First and foremost, you need to not let the enemy know what you're doing, and simultaneously make sure you do know what they're doing. If your DM prevents you from protecting yourselves from scrying (including by making it cost too much), the game is over before it begins.

Make heavy use of traps and ambushes. Traps are better because they don't risk your side's manpower and can't be interrogated if the enemy survives, but ambushes are probably what you'll use in play because that's what will make the game D&D. Try to get your DM to let you set up ambushes around trap sites.

Figure out what vulnerabilities the enemy has most exposed -- is the weak point frail human bodies, supply lines, cost limitations, training, risky items, apathy in their ranks? -- and then attack those vulnerabilities.

Do not piss off the locals. Give them concrete reasons to adore your team and try to arrange things such that the enemy provokes them to anger. They're just NPCs, but they're your most meaningful resource, and your DM will come to cherish them if she doesn't already.

And do not piss off the enemy. If he hates you more than he fears you, you've got problems. Give him every reason to leave you alone.

EDIT: Oh, right, and ... reconsider your build. Skills may prove much more valuable in this war than any particular edge in combat. Your team can't match theirs in terms of power, so instead, use skills to change the rules of engagement.

[Brauron]

Watch the last third of Return of the Jedi. Channel your inner Ewok.

[DrMike105]

If you're up against a group, shoot the officer first. Are you guys strictly good, or can you go more neutral? Because eco-terrorist seems like the correct route for this situation. Maybe a spy mission at higher levels to find if the enemy gains their power from a single source, like an arcane generator? Pitch that to your GM and plan a sabotage mission.

[Talentless]

What everyone else said, and hope to hell someone thinks to roll a Druid. Even in their PF nerfed form, a properly built High level Druid is a tide turner on the battlefield.

Also, does this society you are going up against work like a real empirical society with that level of Magic work? Because if so, you will rarely have to deal with casters higher than level 10 until much later, if ever.

Because why should a Wizard stir his stumps out the capital for some neobarb society? opening himself up to political intrigue while he's gone, etc. etc.

Also, water traps, weather control, and the like. Anything that makes it a living hell for a non-magic user to light the boilers for their steam-tech, rust their metal, make the human troops miserable.

Hell, maybe use the the first 2-3 months as a demoralization time. Only use traps to disrupt the enemy, aim for minimum to no enemy casualties this time. Make it seem that the land itself hates them, make them think that no one is actually in the land.

Then, start scaling up the traps, still keeping the natural non-manmade trap feel. Direct a stampede of some forest creatures through the camp.
Hell, if you have a Adult or older Green Dragon in the forest somewhere(and it likely should if you are forest hippy people), make it believe that this enemy city stole from it, or attacked its young, or any other option to piss it off against them(if they don't happen to do this all on their own), and stay the hell out of its way.

Eventually, the traps will have to look unnatural, but by then, hopefully you've made morale hit rock bottom, and made progress expensive as hell. Then you start ambushes to kill priority targets, like surprise round kill an officer, then melt away into the forest, leading the leaderless unit through a gauntlet of traps if they pursue.

Send word to the other enemy of the City you are fighting that you guys are going to be screwing with their resource gathering, supplies, troops, etc, and get them to commit to offensives on the other border of your enemy(enemy of my enemy is my friend).

And have the Druidic Circle of your side devote a large effort to make the land unscryable.

There are a whole lot of options, but you have to think outside the box, and never, ever, engage a fight you can't retreat from. Always initiate fights on your terms. GTFO any fight that isn't in your plans.

/edit, essentially, be PC Tucker's Kobolds to the enemy.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

So we got some more background today:

The Mech-like armor will have some sort of internal arcane fuel system. On the one hand, that sucks cos the things can run forever, but on the other, that means they can be captured and used by us.

Our enemy has access to airships, whereas we have... none. However, we DO have a refluffed Sable Company Marines, which are Hippogriff riding Rangers, so our enemy doesnt have complete air dominance.

They also have access to large warships, however a huge cliff lines our left flank which drops into the ocean... we assume we are protected from naval assaults.

Our enemies forces will consist primary of Human fighters, and some rangers. Our enemy will have organized units with healer medics and the rare battlefield (perhaps Spellslinger archetype?) Wizard.

our enemies are armed primarily with crossbows and firearms, each soldier equipped with a breastplate and shortsword/dagger for close quarters.

This City attacking our woodland home lies across a plain perhaps 2 days march away. Thus, we can easily see any sizable invasion force if they come on foot. this City (of which we dont know the name yet) is a MASSIVE Metropolis, capable of factory production of armaments, has a huge standing army, has innovators, inventors, and engineers working to constantly improve the military machine. They have access to advanced clockwork and steam technology, which is often blended with arcane magic.

We are going to start the game at a low level, (perhaps 1-3) and begin unaware of the impending attack considering that there have been no hostilities between this City and the nearby woodland inhabitants for several hundred years. We are made aware during the Festival season, where all the happy woodsy peoples come together to trade and celebrate the spring season. A small village nearby captures part of a recon team, and find we probably have a mere week or two to prepare. Turns out, recon teams with access to invisibility suck when you are unsuspecting forest folk who dont expect to be spied on for months.

I guess the GM figures we'll start the game unorganized, our party working as a sort of guerrilla cell while the forest people figure out what to do. I assume that as PC's, we will eventually have some sort of greater responsibility to the movement.

Our main concern now is individual builds and small group tactics. We've got a Ranger with a bow riding a Hippogriff, I convinced the other guy to play a Druid, another guy is uncertain if he will play or not, and im still working on my switch hitter build, with a bow and +1 agile dagger. (Dex to damage!)
Might swap to TWF...? In any case, hopefully this information will help you all out, you guys have been giving great advice.

[Diefje]

I think an important thing you said is that the woods contains resources that the City is after. As long as there's a place to fall back to, you don't have to engage the army if possible. Until you learn how to deal with their tech superiority, all you need to do is make collecting the resource very unlucrative. The City's main focus is not the woods, it's their rival city.

So as above, guerilla stuff. Burn their food supplies, block their roads, get their heavy machinery stuck, and my fav: PROPAGANDA! Get the people of the city to hate the war.

[Dimers]

Convince the hippogriff riders to assault and take over airships, one at a time until they start coming in fleets. Don't use the airships right away -- let the enemy think you destroyed them, then pull 'em out as an ace in the hole later. Or disassemble them to use their deck weaponry to defend your homebase, if you've got one.

I don't know PF, but if the heat metal spell is still around, that should interact amusingly with firearms. :smallamused: Good against breastplates, too.

Focus on fear, charm or both when in direct confrontation. Get help from nymphs and dryads, or terrorize the invaders every moment of the day with rustlings and half-seen movements and long-range attacks whenever they think it's safe to rest for a little while.

[Belril Duskwalk]

Our main concern now is individual builds and small group tactics. We've got a Ranger with a bow riding a Hippogriff, I convinced the other guy to play a Druid, another guy is uncertain if he will play or not, and im still working on my switch hitter build, with a bow and +1 agile dagger. (Dex to damage!)
Might swap to TWF...? In any case, hopefully this information will help you all out, you guys have been giving great advice.

I'd go with the switch-hit option. To win a guerilla war you need to pop up, damage/destroy your target and be gone before the enemy can respond. Ranged combat is your friend. The dagger should be kept handy for anybody who manages to close within melee range, but unless you've managed to get the drop on a lone soldier or two you're probably going to want to be gone before the enemy ever gets into dagger range.

Speaking of guerilla tactics, Stealth Ranks are your friend.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

I'd go with the switch-hit option. To win a guerilla war you need to pop up, damage/destroy your target and be gone before the enemy can respond. Ranged combat is your friend. The dagger should be kept handy for anybody who manages to close within melee range, but unless you've managed to get the drop on a lone soldier or two you're probably going to want to be gone before the enemy ever gets into dagger range.

Speaking of guerilla tactics, Stealth Ranks are your friend.

Alright, that was my plan. a free +1 agile dagger was too good to pass up, especially with that trait River Rat (+1 dam. with daggers) and Piranha strike. (power attack for finesse weapons).

I figured it was better than spending 2 feats on Point Blank Master and Weapon Focus, then lose arrows or break my bow. Our DM is wanting this to be realistic (as possible) so 20 point buy at most, maybe as low as 15, and we will be keeping track of arrows, so being competent with a back up is a good idea. dagger, with a spring loaded wrist sheath... nice.

[The Gilded Duke]

Nothing is more natural then disease.
Your druid (and you if you keep wild empathy) should have excellent access to dire rats and other creatures that can spread filth fever. Filth Fever is a DC 12 fort save disease that does con damage. A level 1 commoner is going to fail the initial save more than half the time, once they fail the first save, they have little chance of recovery. Just have your rats spread through the city infecting any mammals they can.

Then they have to worry about an epidemic and a war with a hostile power. The forest then is no longer as important.

[Talentless]

Nothing is more natural then disease.
Your druid (and you if you keep wild empathy) should have excellent access to dire rats and other creatures that can spread filth fever. Filth Fever is a DC 12 fort save disease that does con damage. A level 1 commoner is going to fail the initial save more than half the time, once they fail the first save, they have little chance of recovery. Just have your rats spread through the city infecting any mammals they can.

Then they have to worry about an epidemic and a war with a hostile power. The forest then is no longer as important.

Ohhhh.... that... that is just plain sneaky... and brutal. I love it.

[Inferno]

I agree with the Duke that disease is a great tool, but I would keep from bringing disease to the enemies town. You don't want to make them desperate or they are likely to redouble their efforts to crush your little resistance. They are attacking you for resources, unless you intend to join forces with their true enemy your best bet is making it too costly to harvest your forest. Outposts, logging/mining camps, they are targets for disease. Drop trees/rockslides on their roads. Send summoned animals to attack. Your looking at a war of attrition face-to-face combat is the worst case scenario and if it must happen, have traps and stealth.

[Retech]

So you're battling arcane magic with weak divine magic?

Assuming the GM doesn't play wizards as wizards, go on a quest to prompt Gozreh to smite the eco-smashing civilization?

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

So you're battling arcane magic with weak divine magic?

Assuming the GM doesn't play wizards as wizards, go on a quest to prompt Gozreh to smite the eco-smashing civilization?

Well, apparently this is going to be a gritty, kind of messy campaign where if there are gods in the world, they can be killed far more easily than most D&D campaigns permit. SO, even if we could "prompt" any god to do our bidding, it would probably just end up being demoralizing for us.

The GM says it wont be as bad as "arcane vs divine". I guess there will be arcane casters on our side as well, but more like witches and hedge magicians and hermit wizards... whereas this City has access to huge libraries of magic and arcane knowledge. Honestly, I think we as the players are more worried about them summoning outsiders to help destroy us...