[3.5] Good powers for Hidden Talent?

[deuxhero]

General question, not for specific build.

I know Minor Creation has yummy poison potential.

[tiercel]

Psionic minor creation is also nifty for just flexible use ("yes, I do have more rope / giant wooden bowl / a bunch of flammable oil right here, just a minute")-- you'll want to check with your DM about poison Craft checks and availability, i.e., what poisons the DM will allow for balance and also just which ones are plant-based.

Mindlink isn't bad if you're scouting (or just staying in touch with the scout) -- it works over any distance once established. Duration is a bit short if you're just at ML 1 though.

Expansion if you are going for melee battlefield control.

Force screen is a handy shield bonus, if you have time to buff up your AC before a battle. (1 minute is long enough for a combat.)

It is kinda build-dependent for most powers, though minor creation is handy for most folks (moreso if you can exploit the poison). Your choices will be a bit limited since you won't really take an offensive power with limited DC and ML 1; pretty much you're looking at utility or non-(or weakly)-ML-dependent buffs.

[Canine]

Entangling ectoplasm is another possibility, since it has no save, no SR. It might fall behind at higher levels if you run into a lot of large+ creatures or things with permanent freedom of movement type effects, but it can be nice for adding a low level ranged option.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Dimension hop is another great option for almost any build

[Psyren]

Synchronicity can be used to greatly increase your flexibility with readying actions.

Which powers are a good choice can also change depending on your class. If you pick a class that can manifest powers, you'll most likely want Hidden Talent for something that can be augmented (like Astral Construct) that isn't part of your regular list.

[hex0]

grip of iron.

It is an immediate action, for one.

[Dusk Eclipse]

grip of iron.

It is an immediate action, for one.

Unless he is building a grappler Grip of Iron is a tad useless.

Op don't forget to get some extra pp to fuel your hidden talent more than 2/day. Manifester arrows are a cheap (if somewhat cheesy) way to do it, there is also a wondrous location which gives you 5(IIRC) PP for about 3500 Gp in complete psionc.

Or if race is not set in stone there are a lot of races that give bonus PP (Kalashtar give the most in the long run as they have 1 pp/level)

[deuxhero]

The OP said it wasn't for any build. I know all the tricks to get more PP.

[Psyren]

It may not be for a specific build but we do need SOME guidance. Useful powers change significantly if you're a manifesting class vs. a non-manifesting one. (Manifesting classes can augment, so the powers that can be augmented become significantly better for them e.g. Astral Construct.)

[Zaq]

I often like looking at the Lurk and PsyWar lists.

Dimensional Pocket is some of the earliest access to extradimensional space you can get.

Chameleon is nice for stealthy folks.

[Flickerdart]

Dimension Hop is pretty spiffy. Having the option to be 10ft that way now is quite useful, though Martial Study for Shadow Jaunt and friends becomes better once you have the IL for it.

[Big Fau]

or things with permanent freedom of movement type effects

There are very few of those. Even creatures able to cast the spell itself are rather rare.

[Person_Man]

Although it's a big feat investment to get it, a Psychic Rogue can benefit greatly from Claws of the Beast + Claws of the Vampire + Expansion for a King of Smack redux. When added to it's Sneak Attack, Mind Cripple, and existing psionic powers, and a couple of Sneak Attack feats, you get a fun and potent Skills + kills character.

[Flickerdart]

Although it's a big feat investment to get it, a Psychic Rogue can benefit greatly from Claws of the Beast + Claws of the Vampire + Expansion for a King of Smack redux. When added to it's Sneak Attack, Mind Cripple, and existing psionic powers, and a couple of Sneak Attack feats, you get a fun and potent Skills + kills character.
Wouldn't a psionic character be better off with Expanded Knowledge?

[Keld Denar]

If you get Hidden Talent for a power, see if you can visit an Earth Node. It has a treasure value of 4500g, but gives you 5 bonus PP for a year. That means you can now Dim Hop 7/day, rather than 2. Just a way to get more mileage out of your feat investment. Earth Node is in Complete Psionic.

[Psyren]

Wouldn't a psionic character be better off with Expanded Knowledge?

Sort of. By RAW, EK gives you a power no higher than one level below your maximum - which means it does nothing for Psyrogues until 5th level. Meanwhile, Hidden Talent comes online at level 1 and gives you extra PP to boot.

[NeoSeraphi]

Claws of the beast has an hour/level duration, manifests as a swift action, and is very, very abusable. Another fun one is astral construct (can't remember if you can get discipline-specific powers with Hidden Talent or not)

[Big Fau]

Claws of the beast has an hour/level duration, manifests as a swift action, and is very, very abusable. Another fun one is astral construct (can't remember if you can get discipline-specific powers with Hidden Talent or not)

AC has a very short duration, making it a bad choice for Hidden Talent if you aren't all ready a manifester.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

What the above poster said Hidden talent is great at level 1 both for psionic and non psionic characters. I'm a big fan of Astral construct as an off list power for psionics since it's like the whole summon monster line and pretty much means you just stole the iconic power of shapers.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Although it's a big feat investment to get it, a Psychic Rogue can benefit greatly from Claws of the Beast + Claws of the Vampire + Expansion for a King of Smack redux. When added to it's Sneak Attack, Mind Cripple, and existing psionic powers, and a couple of Sneak Attack feats, you get a fun and potent Skills + kills character.

Assuming you can take Hidden Talent more than once (I am not sure and AFAIK HT isn't on the SRD) you could get expansion and Claws of the beast at first level, craven also would be nice to add.

[Psyren]

Another fun one is astral construct (can't remember if you can get discipline-specific powers with Hidden Talent or not)

You can, but your "ML" is set to 1 unless you have a real manifesting class to use instead. Astral Construct is therefore a bad choice, since you can't augment it no matter how many PP you actually have.


Assuming you can take Hidden Talent more than once (I am not sure and AFAIK HT isn't on the SRD) you could get expansion and Claws of the beast at first level, craven also would be nice to add.

Feats can only be taken once unless specifically stated otherwise.
Soulknives have such an exception (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a) however.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Feats can only be taken once unless specifically stated otherwise.
Soulknives have such an exception (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a) however.

That's why I wasn't sure, I didn't remember if they had the clause allowing you to take it more than once.

[Chronos]

Quoth Zaq:
Chameleon is nice for stealthy folks.Especially since it's an enhancement bonus, not a competence bonus like the vast majority of skill boosters. So it'll stack with whatever else you have. On the other hand, there's also a psychoactive skin that gives the same effect.

[Zaq]

Quoth Zaq:Especially since it's an enhancement bonus, not a competence bonus like the vast majority of skill boosters. So it'll stack with whatever else you have. On the other hand, there's also a psychoactive skin that gives the same effect.

While true, the psychoactive skin isn't around at level 1.

[Dimers]

I've put Hidden Talent into various builds/concepts for dimension hop, detect psi, call to mind, conceal thoughts, matter agitation, skate, mind link, eidetic lock and burst. Mighty spring could be useful at low levels, too. If my DM were a jerk who liked to rob the party of its equipment, I'd consider call weaponry.

[Person_Man]

Wouldn't a psionic character be better off with Expanded Knowledge?

Doh! I was confusing the two feats. Ignore me.

[Psyren]

Doh! I was confusing the two feats. Ignore me.

As I pointed out, HT is still useful for full manifesters, and beats EK at early levels.

[Endarire]

Astral. Construct.

Go airborne. Get power armor (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10279.0). Get extra targets. Get creative.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Astral. Construct.

Go airborne. Get power armor (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10279.0). Get extra targets. Get creative.

Not good unless you have ML as Hidden talent defaults to 1 reducing it's actual utility to none.

[Kjatan]

Not good unless you have ML as Hidden talent defaults to 1 reducing it's actual utility to none.


A level 1 construct is still fairly useful, other than being usable as a one off weapon, it can perform any other acts a user could. If locked in a cell, manifest it outside to grab the keys if applicable, or hit a lever, trigger a trap, use as a ladder, or distraction. It can be used like Far hand, but is more effective since Far hand is limited to 15 feet of movement, whereas a construct can be manifested 30 feet away to pick up and run an object back to you without any problem. It can also be used as a ~15 hp meat shield/wall in tough situations for ranged characters.

[Piggy Knowles]

A level 1 construct is still fairly useful, other than being usable as a one off weapon, it can perform any other acts a user could. If locked in a cell, manifest it outside to grab the keys if applicable, or hit a lever, trigger a trap, use as a ladder, or distraction. It can be used like Far hand, but is more effective since Far hand is limited to 15 feet of movement, whereas a construct can be manifested 30 feet away to pick up and run an object back to you without any problem. It can also be used as a ~15 hp meat shield/wall in tough situations for ranged characters.

Eh... one full round manifesting time, plus only a round duration, makes even the utility of this pretty minimal. At least Far Hand lasts for a minute.

For me, it would depend on the type of character I was using. Psionic Minor Creation would be my go to power. Other than that, Chameleon is a pretty big bonus to Hide checks, so it's nice for a stealthy power at low levels (although the fact that it's an enhancement bonus reduces its usefulness at higher levels), and scouts wouldn't mind Synesthete or Mindlink. Precognition will pretty much always be of use. Claws of the Beast loses most of its oomph if you can't augment it, but it's still a swift action to manifest and lasts for an hour. Call Weapon would be nice for Person_Man's Haberdash build.

[hex0]

I'm seeing a pattern here:

1. ZOMG Astral Construct
2. It doesn't last long enough!
3. Repeat 1&2

:smallbiggrin:

No one mentioned Psionic Lion's Charge!? I see a lot of people suggest Pounce Barbarian but isn't a feat of less consequence than a level?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Psionic Lion's Charge is a 2nd level power and thus ineligible for Hidden Talent.

[deuxhero]

It's a 2nd level power and can't be used.

Edit: Lurk Psionic Rogued!

[hex0]

Ack. I keep thinking we are talking about Expanded Knowledge as well!

Honestly, Conceal Thoughts has a decent duration