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YouLostMe
2011-10-21, 02:04 PM
So this is an artifact from the meteor swarm retooling thread, and it's led me to start thinking about evocation spells.

A while ago, Frank Trollman posted an evocation fix on the Paizo forums:
Polar Ray is an insult to god and man. It's not a long legacy, it was introduced in 3.5 and before that it was merely one of several options for the much lower level Otiluke's Freezing Sphere. And of course, in Pathfinder, that would have to be called Freezing Sphere for copyright reasons, but that is neither here nor there.

The point however, is that in the conversion from AD&D to 3e D&D, the amount of hit points and energy resistance that creatures have has increased literally exponentially. And damage output from Evocations has not kept up in the slightest. And while we could plausibly attempt to push the envelope and pump up damage output to match, that would only be an arms race that no one would win.

Evocations in 3rd edition rules are primarily spells which serve to devastate low level opposition or to slowly but surely chip away at the defenses of opponents that pose reasonable threats. These are sometimes valid tactics, but they are not valid tactics to use one's highest level spells to accomplish. It takes a lot of magic missiles to bring down a Shadow, meaning that there is frankly no way that any Wizard is going to have enough spell slots to dedicate to doing that to make it a viable way to eventually beat such an opponent.

So here's the solution: reduce the spell level of these underperforming evocation spells. Since they scale in damage to your level, nothing actually bad happens if you get these spells early. Even a dozen or more levels early is perfectly fine because the damage scales to something level appropriate at low level. A polar ray cast by a 1st level character does just 1d6 of damage - half the damage that the same character could achieve by purchasing a vial of alchemist frost and throwing it at a target (same to-hit roll as well at any kind of close range).

So here's what the Evocation list should look like:

Evocation Cantrips

* Burning Hands
* Dancing Lights
* Light
* Magic Missile
* Shocking Grasp


Evocation 1st Level Spells

* Fireball
* Floating Disk
* Gust of Wind
* Lightning Bolt
* Polar Ray
* Sending


Evocation 2nd Level Spells

* Chain Lightning
* Cone of Cold
* Continual Flame
* Darkness
* Daylight
* Flaming Sphere (this spell badly needs to be better than it is, but that's another subject)
* Scorching Ray
* Shatter


Evocation 3rd Level Spells

* Delayed Blast Fireball
* Ice Storm
* Shout
* Tiny Hut
* Wall of Fire
* Wind Wall


Evocation 4th Level Spells

* Fire Shield
* Interposing Hand
* Resilient Sphere
* Wall of Ice

Evocation 5th Level Spells

* Forceful Hand
* Freezing Sphere
* Mage Sword
* Sunburst
* Wall of Force


Evocation 6th Level Spells

* Contingency
* Grasping Hand
* Shout, Greater


Evocation 7th Level Spells

* Clenched Fist
* Force Cage
* Prismatic Spray



Evocation 8th Level Spells

* Crushing Hand
* Meteor Swarm
* Telekinetic Sphere


Evocation 9th Level Spells

* 9th level Spells must be written for this discipline. Seriously, timestop? Shapechange? Wail of the Banshee? Astral Projection? Shades? Weird? Most disciplines have two game defining, god-fighting spells to choose from at 9th level. Evocation hasn't been given anything remotely decent for their top tier, so new, mountain leveling spells must be written for Evokers to have.

There. It's pretty much completely backwards compatible, but nonetheless puts Evokers in at being able to do something legitimately valuable - Killing Fools.

And no, having unlimited magic missiles or shocking grasps is not ungamebalanced at 1st level, or any level. Magic Missile tops out in damage at level 9, when it does 17.5 damage against any opponent who doesn't have concealment, cover, or spell resistance. But at level 9, a Rogue is literally inflicting 17.5 points of sneak attack damage with every single attack. And that's not total damage for the round, that's just the extra damage from a sneak attack. He still gets to do his weapon damage, and make his other attacks for that round. Shocking Grasp is very likely to hit, and it does a d8+1 damage. A Longsword in the hands of a Fighter is also very likely to hit and does a d8+4. While the shocking grasp is quite likely to have a better chance of hitting an orc warrior than the longsword is, it is also much more likely to do insufficient damage to drop the orc. Indeed, the Orc Warrior out of the SRD is more likely to drop in one attack from the 1st level Fighter than he from the 1st level Wizard - even factoring in the discrepancy in hit chances.

And no, casting fireballs at 1st level isn't unbalanced either. At 1st level it only does a d6 of fire damage, it's barely worth doing against many opponents. It certainly isn't putting color spray out of a job.

Now as you can see there are no 9th-level evocations given, so I wanted to start compiling a few. The stuff I have thus far is taken from The Gaming Den, with one original spell.



Abhorent Vortex (midnight_v)
Evocation
Level: Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 40 ft./level
Area: Burst 10 ft./Level
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex; special
Spell Resistance: No

This spell implodes an area with such intensity that a vacum is created sucking the surronding area in.
Choose one 5-ft square on the ground in range then this is the origin point.. Creatures (other than the caster) within 10ft per caster level take 150 damage with no save, each creature must then must make a reflex save or be sucked into the point of origin leaving them dazed for one round as well as being knocked prone.

Armageddon [Fire] [Earth] (cielingcat)
Level: S/W 9
Components: V, S, M
Range: 1 mile
Area: 20'/level radius spread
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: Ref 1/2
SR: No

You rain destruction down from the heavens, bombarding the area with burning meteors and dealing 3d6/level to all within the area of effect (Ref save for 1/2). This damage is half fire damage and half bludgeoning damage. The spell may cause structures and items to catch fire, and can damage or destroy structures in the area.

Spontaneous Combustion [Fire] (ceilingcat)
Level: S/W 9
Components: V, S
Range: Close (25' + 5'/2 levels)
Effect: 1 target/level
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: Fort 1/2
SR: Yes

You inflict 3d6/level fire damage to each target (fort save for 1/2). Any target reduced below 0 hp by this damage is instantly killed (if still alive - no save) and turned to ashes. (This precludes any method of resurrection that requires a body or part of the body).

Lightning Strike [Electricity] (ceilingcat)
Level: S/W 9
Components: V, S
Range: Close (25' + 5'/2 levels)
Effect: all enemies within range
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: Ref Partial
SR: Yes

You call down a series of lightning strikes – one per target, preceeded by a loud crack of thunder. This spell works even underground (the electricity jumps from the floor to the ceiling). All targets take 2d6/level electricity damage and are fatigued, knocked prone, stunned for 2d6 rounds, sickened for 1d4 hours, and deafened for 1d6 days. Flying creatures are stalled instead of being knocked prone (resolve their falling immediately). A successful reflex save halves the damage and negates the being knocked prone and the stunning.

Check SR independently for all creatures effected – failing to penetrate SR only prevents that creature from being effected by the spell (which otherwise resolves normally).

Acid Rain [Acid] (ceilingcat)
Level: S/W 9
Components: V, S, M
Area: 1 mile radius centered on you
Duration: 1r/level
Save: Fort partial
SR: No

You create a brief torrential downpour of acidic rain in a 1 mile radius area centered on you. This storm inflicts 8d6 acid damage each round to everything in the area, including objects, structures, creatures, and plants. This acid damage ignores the hardness of any objects or structures. Creatures in water take 1/2 damage. Creatures at least 50’ beneath the water surface can ignore the spell entirely. Note that the caster is affected by the spell normally.

In addition, anyone who takes acid damage from the spell is nauseated, reduced to sickened with a successful fortitude save.

Acid rain will generally kill any normal animals, will reduce even tall trees to pitted stumps, and turn stone castles to slag. Casting the spell almost certainly earns the enmity of any druids in the area as well as any rulers or good-aligned adventurers.

Force Juggernaut
Level: S/W 9
Components: S
Range: Close (25' + 5'/2 levels)
Effect: see text
Duration: 1 round per level
Save: Reflex; see text
SR: Yes

You create a 25' by 25' plane of force in front of you, and push it forward. When you cast this spell, you may move it anywhere in range in a straight line and rotate it to any orientation. Any creature that the plane touches is pushed to the end of the plane's movement and takes 1d6 force damage for every 10' moved (no save). At the beginning of their turns, creatures next to the plane of force take 1d6 per caster level damage and must make a Reflex Save or be entangled for the turn. Any creature who takes damage from force juggernaut is slowed for 1 round.

As a swift action, you can orient the plane in any way and move it up to 30'. Creatures with Spell Resistance or Spell Immunity apply the Spell Resistance every time at the beginning of their turn.

NichG
2011-10-21, 02:40 PM
I think its useful to note that a lot of the good Evocations aren't the blasty spells, but the weird utility spells Evocation gets because things are being manifested from magical forces rather than summoned.

So along those lines, 9th level spells should have some aspect of that I think:

- Force Maze: Creates a 3d space-filling maze of force walls in a cube 5ft/level to a side. The force maze has hallways and passages wide enough so that all beings in it at the time of creation can fit through them and thread the maze. Each 5ft section behaves as a separate Wall of Force for the purpose of dispel, disintegrate, etc.

- Midnight Sun: This spell causes a magical sun to appear in the sky/air, creating daylight conditions in a radius of 200ft/level. This persists for 10 minutes/level. If the Midnight Sun is manifested during day time, the ambient sunlight of an area is doubled, causing a heat wave that raises the temperature by 2 bands in the area. If cast indoors, the illumination is treated as an emanation. Further castings do not increase the effect however. The light produced by the Midnight Sun is considered natural daylight for creatures affected by such things. This spell can be permanencied.

(the reverse of this already exists as an Epic Spell somewhere I think, but it'd be fun to bump down to 9th level evocation).

- Spirits of Matter: This spell causes objects in the area to emit wispy ghost-like creatures, one per object. Things done to the creatures associated with objects reflect on the objects themselves, and the creatures can be targeted as creatures. 20ft radius, 1 round/level. Lots of potential here: Dominate a door into opening, Finger of Death a door's spirit to destroy the door, use healing spells to repair broken objects, even raise dead in principle...

NeoSeraphi
2011-10-21, 03:12 PM
Lightning Strike should definitely also be a druid spell.

Also, those spells covered every [element] except cold! Why no love for 9th level ice spells? I mean, yeah, we have Fimbulwinter, but...

Prime32
2011-10-21, 03:54 PM
Also, those spells covered every [element] except cold! Why no love for 9th level ice spells? I mean, yeah, we have Fimbulwinter, but...PF introduced one (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/polar-midnight)... but made it Transmutation. :smallyuk:

NeoSeraphi
2011-10-21, 03:57 PM
PF introduced one (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/polar-midnight)... but made it Transmutation. :smallyuk:

Well, okay that spell is pretty nice, but it's still not a 9th level [cold] evocation spell!

/nitpick

Paulcynic
2011-10-21, 09:51 PM
Uhh, awesome :) Ima steal this idea. Ty Mr. YouLostMe for posting this.

--PC

YouLostMe
2011-10-22, 04:14 AM
Let's see... in order.

Force Maze appears to be Maze, except strange. What's the application there, especially for flyers? Midnight Sun sounds cool. I'd actually pop the temperature to like 4 bands. And Spirits of Matter is weeeeeird. Would need lots of ruling edits.

Some cool stuff there. Also, I shall start a cold evocation spell. I was thinking a blizzard AoE with slow, what do you think?

Also, Paulcynic, feel free to post spells all up in here! Collaboration is always appreciated.

NeoSeraphi
2011-10-22, 04:18 AM
Some cool stuff there. Also, I shall start a cold evocation spell. I was thinking a blizzard AoE with slow, what do you think?


Slow is good, but what about also icing the ground like grease?

YouLostMe
2011-10-22, 05:14 AM
I'm thinking 1r/level, short range, makes a 60' diameter cylinder (100' tall). No SR for effects. Then like 4d6/round damage and reflex save v. falling prone along with fort save v. slow? I can see those saves being made by monsters, and it not doing much... Is that an irrational worry?

EDIT: Also, that's a lot of die-rolling. Not in a pile, but with the damage per round and and two saves per monster... I need some consolidation.

NichG
2011-10-22, 10:28 AM
Force Maze appears to be Maze, except strange. What's the application there, especially for flyers?

Maze takes one enemy and puts them elsewhere until they planeshift or make an Int check. Force Maze turns the battlefield into a maze, so its more of a 'break up the enemy group into little sub-groups' trick, especially if the person casting Force Maze also has teleportation. I'll grant it'd be hard to run since you might well have to draw out a 3d maze, so some approximations as to how it breaks up the enemy group are probably warranted (e.g. all creatures are separated by a wall of force unless adjacent initially, average path length between creatures is 300ft, whatever).

MesiDoomstalker
2011-10-22, 11:23 AM
The Ice spell should have freeze in place with a failed save, slow on successful. Grease-ing the area should happen regardless of who saves and that portion should be SR: No. Flying by wings would get frozen and they fall. Magical flight.....I'm not sure how to affect that.

drakir_nosslin
2011-10-22, 11:44 AM
Force Maze: Creates a 3d space-filling maze of force walls in a cube 5ft/level to a side. The force maze has hallways and passages wide enough so that all beings in it at the time of creation can fit through them and thread the maze. Each 5ft section behaves as a separate Wall of Force for the purpose of dispel, disintegrate, etc.

This would be hilarious with invisible spell! :smallbiggrin:

Eldest
2011-10-22, 02:20 PM
The Ice spell should have freeze in place with a failed save, slow on successful. Grease-ing the area should happen regardless of who saves and that portion should be SR: No. Flying by wings would get frozen and they fall. Magical flight.....I'm not sure how to affect that.
Magical flight gets coated with ice, causing whatever is flying to fly slower.

MesiDoomstalker
2011-10-22, 03:09 PM
Magical flight gets coated with ice, causing whatever is flying to fly slower.

Halving fly speed and lowering maneuverabilty 1 or 2 steps? That would be pretty devestating.

Paulcynic
2011-10-23, 12:23 AM
Also, Paulcynic, feel free to post spells all up in here! Collaboration is always appreciated.
Ah, stole for mah game group :P

Let me give this a try:


Idea From Dragon Age II:

Gravity Well
S/W Level 9 Evocation
Components: V, S, C (A 1-foot Iron Bar, 1-inch wide, consumed)
Range: Medium
Area: 30' Radius
Duration: 1 Round/3 levels
Save: Reflex (Partial), See Text
SR: No

You cause a thick iron-rod to hyper-rotate in all directions, creating a hyper-dense gravity well. This well pulls all creatures within its Area of Effect toward the center unless they make a successful Reflex save. Those who fail their save are immediately moved to the center of the effect, where they are paralyzed and suffer 6D6 crushing damage per round per size category. Those who make their save are Staggered, and may only move 5'; if they attempt to physically move while this effect persists they must make a new Reflex save or suffer the full effect.

When this effect ends, any ground within its Area of Effect becomes difficult terrain as it was sucked into the grav-well.


Vacuum
S/W Level 9 Evocation
Components: V, S, C (A Mythril Wiffle-ball)
Range: Medium
Area: 30' Radius
Duration: Immediate
Save: Fortitude, See Text
SR: No

You under-hand toss a mythril wiffle-ball toward your desired area of effect where it magically continues on. Upon arriving at your designated location, it will suck in all atmosphere. This immediate change in pressure will cause even the mightiest beasts to make a Fort save or have their eyes (if any) pulled from their sockets (becoming physically blind). Failure by 5 or greater further causes their lungs to collapse, dealing 6D6 crushing damage; victims of this damage must make another Fort save DC (10 plus damage received) or suffer a coup-de-grace. Failure by 10 or greater causes massive internal trauma as the drop in pressure simultaneously boils and freezes their blood. Arteries and veins immediately disintegrate, and all major bones become like glass, breaking into horrible pin-like shards, paralyzing victims, as well as causing 150 damage; victims of this damage must make a Fort save DC (10 plus damage received) or suffer a coup-de-grace.


The Chiaotzu Effect
S/W Level 9 Evocation
Components: V, S, C (Any Small-sized Creature, even a midget pantomime)
Range: Long
Duration: Immediate
Save: Reflex, See Text
SR: No

You cast this spell upon a willing ally or creature of animal intelligence who gets no saving throw. You then direct this imbued creature to grapple a specific target, where it gains a +40 to this grapple attempt (animals will obey without resistance). Once in place, this loving vassal will bid you farewell and good luck, and ask you to resurrect it when possible, at which point it will unleash the forces you have awakened within it. Both your ally and target foe get no save, taking damage equal to your ally/animals maximum Hit Points (regardless of current health). If this is enough damage to kill your target foe, he will survive long enough to target one of his own allies (nearest). This foe is now imbued with this effect and similarly compelled to grapple his ally (+40 to grapple attempt), at which point this effect repeats infinitely until a target does not die from this effect, or until all allied foes are dead.


Power Word Laughter
S/W Level 9 Evocation
Components: V
Range: Close
Duration: 1 min/level (See Text)
Save: Will, See Text
SR: Yes

You tell a joke, any joke be it lame, wry, clever, or actually funny to those who hear it. Any foe who hears this joke must make an immediate Will save, failure means that this spell evokes forced laughter. Victims become Staggered for the full duration as they struggle to breathe, awkwardly repeating this joke between ass-like gafaws each round. Any of their allies within hearing distance must then make a Will save or suffer this effect as well. Once this effect ends for an individual, if he hears the joke again from any source, he must make a new Will save or suffer the effect... again.

dspeyer
2011-10-23, 11:32 AM
Disintegration Drill
S/W Level 9 Evocation
Components: V, S
Target: A cylinder, 10ft diameter and 1 mile long, originating from you
Duration: 3 rounds
Save: reflex half, See Text
SR: Yes

During the first round, everything in the cylinder takes 10d6 fire damage. At this time, creatures in the space may make reflex saves to jump out of the way and take half damage.

During the second round, everything in the cylinder is destroyed utterly. Objects or creatures partially in the space are sheered neatly, and the boundary is melted/cauterized. Creatures which are partially destroyed in this manner lose a fraction of their total hit points equal to twice the fraction of their volume which was destroyed (if they are more than half destroyed, they are killed). They also lose the benefits of whichever piece of anatomy was destroyed. There is no save in this round.

The third round is like the first.

A wall of force blocks this, but no physical material can.

MesiDoomstalker
2011-10-24, 11:40 AM
Disintegration Drill
S/W Level 9 Evocation
Components: V, S
Target: A cylinder, 10ft diameter and 1 mile long, originating from you
Duration: 3 rounds
Save: reflex half, See Text
SR: Yes

During the first round, everything in the cylinder takes 10d6 fire damage. At this time, creatures in the space may make reflex saves to jump out of the way and take half damage.

During the second round, everything in the cylinder is destroyed utterly. Objects or creatures partially in the space are sheered neatly, and the boundary is melted/cauterized. Creatures which are partially destroyed in this manner lose a fraction of their total hit points equal to twice the fraction of their volume which was destroyed (if they are more than half destroyed, they are killed). They also lose the benefits of whichever piece of anatomy was destroyed. There is no save in this round.

The third round is like the first.

A wall of force blocks this, but no physical material can.

Question: How does a cylinder have a diameter of 10 ft. and 1 mile simultaneously?

Mulletmanalive
2011-10-24, 12:52 PM
Question: How does a cylinder have a diameter of 10 ft. and 1 mile simultaneously?

What he's describing is a 10ft wide line [Emanation, i presume] according to the SRD [A spread and an emanation are the instantaneouns and ongoing versions of the same thing].

Noctis Vigil
2011-10-24, 02:01 PM
This is awesome. I love it. Evocations have always been some of my favorite. So let's give this a try, shall we?

Earthbound Nova
Evocation [fire, cold, acid, electricity, sonic, force]
Components: V, S, XP (500)
Range: Medium
Area: 5'/level radius
Casting Time: 3 rounds
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: Fort/Ref, see text
SR: Yes

Upon casting this spell, the designated area is flooded simultaneously with fire, cold, acid, electricity, sonic and force dealing 1d6 of each element for every two caster levels (rounded down). Anything in the area must make a Fort save or be killed immediately by the resulting blast. Anything in the area that makes this save must then make a Ref save for half damage. This spell overcomes Evasion and Improved Evasion. Anything killed by the spell is vaporized, not even leaving ashes behind, and requires a wish, a miracle or a true resurrection to bring back to life. It is not uncommon for this spell to leave a half-sphere whole in the ground if cast outside or a spherical cave if cast inside a tunnel.

NeoSeraphi
2011-10-24, 02:13 PM
This is awesome. I love it. Evocations have always been some of my favorite. So let's give this a try, shall we?

Earthbound Nova
Evocation [fire, cold, acid, electricity, sonic, force]
Components: V, S, XP (500)
Range: Medium
Area: 5'/level radius
Casting Time: 3 rounds
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: Fort/Ref, see text
SR: Yes

Upon casting this spell, the designated area is flooded simultaneously with fire, cold, acid, electricity, sonic and force dealing 1d6 of each element for every two caster levels (rounded down). Anything in the area must make a Fort save or be killed immediately by the resulting blast. Anything in the area that makes this save must then make a Ref save for half damage. This spell overcomes Evasion and Improved Evasion. Anything killed by the spell is vaporized, not even leaving ashes behind, and requires a wish or a [/i]miracle[/i] to bring back to life. It is not uncommon for this spell to leave a half-sphere whole in the ground if cast outside or a spherical cave if cast inside a tunnel.

I really have a problem with a spell that specifically bans true resurrection. I mean, that's a 9th level spell too, same as wish and miracle, so why can't it be used?

Noctis Vigil
2011-10-24, 02:44 PM
If I recall correctly, true resurrection requires a body (or at least body part) to cast it on, doesn't it?

NeoSeraphi
2011-10-24, 02:50 PM
No, it doesn't. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/trueResurrection.htm)

TinyMushroom
2011-10-24, 02:50 PM
If I recall correctly, true resurrection requires a body (or at least body part) to cast it on, doesn't it?

You're talking about Resurrection. True Resurrection does not require a body, but you need more diamonds.

Noctis Vigil
2011-10-24, 02:52 PM
Ah. I shall edit that in then.

YouLostMe
2011-10-24, 03:07 PM
Apologies for not getting back to the board, everyone. Midterms are tomorrow and I'm working like mad. However, I'll look these spells over and post them as part of my victory/depression relaxation period on Wednesday!

Kenneth
2011-10-24, 07:15 PM
SUNDERING WRATH
Evocation [force]
Components: V, S
Range: Medium (100ft+10ft/level)
Target: One Creature
Casting Time: 1 full round
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: Fort/Half
SR: Yes

A spray of charged magical energy assaults a single target within range dealing 1d8+3 points of Force damage per caster level. The target is flung back by the impact of the spell 5 feet per caster level dealing teh appropiate falling damage should they collide with a solid object. In addition those failing their saving throw are dazed for 1d6 +1/ per 2 levels

thegurullamen
2011-10-24, 07:36 PM
Evoker's Storm
Evocation
Level: Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 50 ft./level
Area: Varies (use base spell's stats)
Duration: 1 round/6 levels
Saving Throw: Varies (use base spell's stats)
Spell Resistance: Special (use base spell's stats)

This spell supercharges the area around the caster, allowing for the most powerful evocation effects to spring forth from simple gestures or thoughts. For the duration of the spell, once per turn as a as a move action, the caster can freely cast as many evocation spells as he wants so long as their collective spell levels do not exceed his caster level, all spells have a duration of instantaneous, and no spell exceeds 7th level. (Cantrips count as 1/2 level spells for this spell's purposes.) A caster cannot cast a spell he does not know/would otherwise not have access to.

For example, Tatum, a 20th level wizard, knows Fireball, Magic Missile, Scorching Ray and Delayed Blast Fireball and has the Twinned (+4) and Widened (+3) metamagics. When he casts this spell, he could cast
Scorching Ray 10 times, or
Fireball 6 times and Scorching Ray once, or
20 Magic Missiles, or
3 Widened Fireballs and 2 Magic Missiles, or
5 Scorching Rays and 10 Magic Missiles
all at CL 20th. He could not, however, cast Delayed Blast Fireball as part of this spell as it does not have an instantaneous duration.

Spells cast in this fashion can be affected by metamagic, so long as the caster knows the relevant feat. Creatures affected by multiple effects in this spell only make one save. If the effects target multiple saves, they choose which save to apply. Spells cast as a part of this spell are treated as 9th level but only when beneficial.

Zeta Kai
2011-10-24, 09:03 PM
The Hourglass of Zihaja (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177072) project took the time to address issues like this, & we made three 9th level arcane evocations: Fiat: Death, Gloom, & Terrible Power. Here they are below, spoilered for length.

Fiat: Death
Evocation [Death]
Level: Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100’ + 10’/level)
Effect: Ray of pure magical potency
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial
Spell Resistance: Yes
Focusing the most potent, raw arcane energies through an enchanted vessel, you invoke the Fiat to unleash a coiling rush of pure sorcery. This power crashes over your foe like a torrent, the pressure expelling soul from body.

A living creature struck by the ray of magic is instantly struck dead unless it succeeds on a Fortitude save. Undead can be affected as well, provided they are not mindless. A creature other than a living creature or sentient undead, or a creature that succeeds on its Fortitude save, instead takes 20d6 damage.

The massive breadth of the ray affords you a +4 bonus to your ranged touch attack. This ray ignores deflection bonus to AC & miss chance due to incorporeality. The ray affords you a +4 bonus to your caster level check to overcome spell resistance.

Focus: A magical rod or staff. You may use a magical wand with at least 10 charges remaining, but doing so will cause it to shatter.

Gloom
Evocation [Darkness, Fear, Mind-Affecting]
Level: Night 9, Wiz 9
Components: V, S, M, F, DF
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Long (400’ + 40’/level)
Area: Cylinder (20’ radius/level, 100’ high)
Duration: 10 minutes/level
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: No
The sky grows dark for a mile around, with not a hint of sunlight, moonlight or starlight penetrating, as you conjure a region of absolute night.

Gloom creates a mile-radius circle of magical darkness that acts as deeper darkness, as well as a cylindrical epicenter of pure inky night. Non-magical sources of illumination within the mile of darkness, such as torches, lamps & candles, are extinguished. Magical sources see their effective radius halved. Within the epicenter, however, all magical light is instantly dispelled (or suppressed, in the case of supernatural glows).

The epicenter of gloom is pitch-black. Low-light vision & darkvision are of no use. All within are effectively blinded & given total concealment. This makes Search & Spot checks impossible & imposes a -4 circumstance penalty to Reflex saves.

The profound, unnatural darkness begins to unhinge those who are caught within. Living creatures within a mile of the epicenter suffer a -2 morale penalty to attack rolls, damage rolls, skill checks & saving throws (no save). For those within the epicenter, however, the darkness of the gloom is much more severe. Creatures caught in the epicenter must make a Will save or suffer a -9 morale penalty instead.

Creatures dependent on sunlight or other light (such as most creatures of the Plant type) suffer twice the normal penalties. Such creatures, if within the epicenter, are also panicked (no save) regardless of immunity to fear effects.

Those within the gloom’s mile-radius circle of darkness also slowly begin to go mad. Each minute, have affected victims roll on the following table:

{table=head]Roll|Gloom Effect|Save
1|No effect|--
2|Confused for 1 minute|Will negates
3|Shaken for 1 minute|Will negates
4|Frightened for 1 minute|Will negates
5|Panicked for 1 minute|Will negates
6|Sickened for 1 minute|Fortitude negates
7|Nauseated for 1 minute|Fortitude negates
8|Roll twice, ignoring 8|--[/table]

Lastly, gloom dispels & suppresses the following effects for its duration: aid, animal trance, bless, calm animals, calm emotions, good hope, heroism, hypnotic pattern, prayer, rage, rainbow pattern, scintillating pattern, sympathy, bardic music & a barbarian’s rage ability.

Material Component: A black opal worth at least 500GP. A full-blooded ghul (& only a ghul) may ignore this component.

Arcane Focus: The black silk robes of a transcended houri. A full-blooded ghul (& only a ghul) may ignore this component.

Terrible Power
Evocation
Level: Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round
Reaching near the very Fiat itself, you briefly grasp an infinitesimal drop of the intangible radiant iliaster that lies within the River of Starlight & infuse a single spell with the pure power contained therein.

The next spell you cast within the next round is modified by Maximize Spell, Empower Spell & Extend Spell, provided such effects are applicable to the spell in question. Though this does not modify the level of the spell being cast, the DC to save against the spell (if applicable) is increased by 1.

Your caster level for the spell modified by terrible power is increased by +5.

Focus: A magical ring of at least 50,000gp value, which must currently be worn on one hand & active, & a sapphire of at least 5,000gp value.

YouLostMe
2011-10-25, 05:07 PM
Gravity Well: I have no idea what hyper-rotation is, and I'm not sure if an "iron-rod" is some sort of physics term. Why not just say "You create a dense gravity well"? Also, I dislike that damage scaling. I'd prefer to have it based on level, possibly with only 3 tiers (tiny and smaller, small to large, huge and larger) of different damage, but the chances of fighting a really small but level-appropriate character are minimal.

The whole "staggered" thing means that ranged will get the chance to try and get you back (unless they are a caster and this counts as continuous damage, which it appears not to), which makes the spell OK, but melee characters are totally boned. They have to make a reflex save, which they might do well on (barbarians and fighters, no. Rogues, yes), and then take a fair amount of damage, but afterwards, they can't do anything for at least a turn. If they fail the save, their first turn is spent in the well, and then they can try and move out of it (possibly falling in again and getting screwed again), but then can't take any more actions. And that could literally happen for every turn of combat if you have someone with a low reflex save. Pretty over-powerful battle control.

In addition, it appears that all creatures are sucked into the same space (how does that work?), and it doesn't appear to deal damage when you're sitting in the gravity well (is that intentional?).

I'd rather see the spell used for only crowed control, no damage even needed. It could be based on HD or CR (HD makes more sense, but CR would work nicer within the game) and pull monsters that are very weak towards the caster into one point and keep them there. At high levels, you can just get rid of a 900pi area of mooks out of the way.

Vacuum: Again with the strange flavor. Why not just make a vacuum, or a portal to an extra-dimensional space that sucks up the air?

Also, a robust immune system generally does not affect one's ability to retain eye and lung capacity. And there are three saves for each creature affect. It just seems... off. I can see the effect making sense, but the effects involved don't seem to work well.

Chiaotzu: I... no. No can has. This doesn't have any tactical ability--it's literally a victory button, especially with multiple usages. You can win combats by stacking HP on the barbarian and just sacrificing him every time.

Power Word Laughter: AoE stagger not affecting allies and lasting all of combat seems like a bit much. Additionally, hideous laughter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/hideousLaughter.htm) (which is what I'm modeling this from) classifies the spell as an Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting].

Disintegration Drill: I'm not quite sure where the cylinder originates. Is it a 1-mile line that's 10' wide? Or is it a mile-tall cylinder on top of your head? Also, by RAW, I can see a character making the reflex save and then "jumping out the way" by one mile, since that's one of the places where the effect ends.

For the second round of the effect... do plants melt or get cauterized? :smalltongue: The effect seems a little crazy. Any BBEG tower or dungeon literally needs to be guarded by walls of force in order to stop the disintegration-drilling of obstacles.

And why would one need a third round of fire damage if nothing exists within the drill any longer?

Earthbound Nova: Interesting name... All right, so small AoE death without the [Death] tag is interesting, but is definitely strong (I'm looking at wail of the banshee, which is only AoE death and can be stopped by death ward), and then there's the damage that comes after.

When I think of spells, I think of them as class features. And ignoring evasion/improved evasion is basically making a caster's class feature ignoring other class features... it's not terrible balance-wise, but it's mean. I dislike it.

You could also say that it affects objects, that way the killing effect hurts undead too. That would be nice.

All right, that's it so far. More midterms we go!

NichG
2011-10-25, 05:55 PM
Here's a crazy one.

Wildwind
Evocation
Level: Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V,S,M
Range: Medium
Area: 10'/level radius, 10ft/level high cylinder
Duration: 1 minute/level
Saving throw: None
SR: Yes

This spell summons forth the energies of Limbo and Pandemonium, blending them together to create a wind filled with chaotic energies. Spells and powers used within the zone of wind have a chance of being twisted and going horribly awry. Spells cast in the area are twisted randomly in one of the following ways (roll 1d100):

1-15: Spell's target is randomized among valid targets within its range
16-30: Spell's energy type is inverted if applicable, otherwise functions normally (fire -> cold, positive -> negative, air -> earth, etc)
31-35: Spell is replaced with an explosion, radius 5ft/spell level, dealing 1d6 of a random energy type per CL, Reflex halves.
36-40: Spell is replaced with Polymorph Any Object to turn the target into a random common metal (bronze, iron, tin, etc).
41-45: Spell animates all dead in its area as uniformly hostile zombies.
46-50: Spell is replaced with an illusion of its effects.
51-55: Spell gains the Maximize metamagic for free, otherwise normal.
56-60: Spell gains the Invisible Spell metamagic, otherwise normal.
61-65: Spell is replaced with Summon Monster of its level. Summoned creatures are not under caster's control.
66-70: Spell affects caster as if cast by target, but using caster's stats and CL.
71-75: Spell acts as an area Greater Dispel Magic at caster's caster level.
76-80: Spell is affected as if by Delay Metamagic for 1d4 rounds.
81-85: Spell fizzles.
86-90: Spell becomes a cloud of raw magical energy, deals 1d6 damage per round per spell level to everyone within 30ft of target point. Lasts 1 round/CL .
91-95: Spell becomes a Living Spell of itself, uncontrolled.
96-100: Caster is drained of a random spell slot of the same level (lower if none available) but the spell works normally.

Material Component: A vial of matter from Limbo and an ingot of Pandemonic silver, 500gp total.

-----

Its hard to use tactically I'll admit, though it'd be wonderful for sabotaging a mage school or temple.

Paulcynic
2011-10-25, 09:03 PM
Power Word Laughter: AoE stagger not affecting allies and lasting all of combat seems like a bit much. Additionally, hideous laughter (which is what I'm modeling this from) classifies the spell as an Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting].

lul, was an obvious joke. "evokes..." "forced..." "laughter..."

The spells are fine, the listed damages are modeled after those in the OP, damage being within those guidelines. Flavor text is good, I'm sorry that you didn't appreciate it.


In addition, it appears that all creatures are sucked into the same space (how does that work?), and it doesn't appear to deal damage when you're sitting in the gravity well (is that intentional?).
Please read the spell again sir, as perhaps you quickly glanced rather than studied it for content.

For everyone else :) Very nice spells, I will try and add some helpful observations, and my game group will probably do some play-testing with a few of these in our next session for funsies; I'll report back soon :)


Force Juggernaut
Underwhelming for 9th level. See Prismatic Sphere (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/prismaticSphere.html#_prismatic-sphere) for comparison.


- Spirits of Matter: This spell causes objects in the area to emit wispy ghost-like creatures, one per object. Things done to the creatures associated with objects reflect on the objects themselves, and the creatures can be targeted as creatures. 20ft radius, 1 round/level. Lots of potential here: Dominate a door into opening, Finger of Death a door's spirit to destroy the door, use healing spells to repair broken objects, even raise dead in principle...

Very Impressive spell, thinking about making a lower-level version of this one for my players :)


- Midnight Sun: This spell causes a magical sun to appear in the sky/air, creating daylight conditions in a radius of 200ft/level. This persists for 10 minutes/level. If the Midnight Sun is manifested during day time, the ambient sunlight of an area is doubled, causing a heat wave that raises the temperature by 2 bands in the area. If cast indoors, the illumination is treated as an emanation. Further castings do not increase the effect however. The light produced by the Midnight Sun is considered natural daylight for creatures affected by such things. This spell can be permanencied.

(the reverse of this already exists as an Epic Spell somewhere I think, but it'd be fun to bump down to 9th level evocation).

I love this effect (it was sorely missing from the list), but compared to Sunburst (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/sunburst.html#_sunburst), it seems like an 8th, maybe even 7th level spell. :)


Disintegration Drill
S/W Level 9 Evocation
Components: V, S
Target: A cylinder, 10ft diameter and 1 mile long, originating from you
Duration: 3 rounds
Save: reflex half, See Text
SR: Yes

During the first round, everything in the cylinder takes 10d6 fire damage. At this time, creatures in the space may make reflex saves to jump out of the way and take half damage.

During the second round, everything in the cylinder is destroyed utterly. Objects or creatures partially in the space are sheered neatly, and the boundary is melted/cauterized. Creatures which are partially destroyed in this manner lose a fraction of their total hit points equal to twice the fraction of their volume which was destroyed (if they are more than half destroyed, they are killed). They also lose the benefits of whichever piece of anatomy was destroyed. There is no save in this round.

The third round is like the first.

A wall of force blocks this, but no physical material can.
An interesting combination would be to toss out some sort of mass-paralysis spell, then use this to mop up. I love the feel of it though Get Away From Me!, though it might be easily abused. Comparing it to Power Word: Kill (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/powerWordKill.html#_power-word-kill) and Weird (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/weird.html#_weird), it isn't all that off balance. I think I might make a lower-level version of this one for our sorc :) He's sure to dig it.


Earthbound Nova
Evocation [fire, cold, acid, electricity, sonic, force]
Components: V, S, XP (500)
Range: Medium
Area: 5'/level radius
Casting Time: 3 rounds
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: Fort/Ref, see text
SR: Yes

Upon casting this spell, the designated area is flooded simultaneously with fire, cold, acid, electricity, sonic and force dealing 1d6 of each element for every two caster levels (rounded down). Anything in the area must make a Fort save or be killed immediately by the resulting blast. Anything in the area that makes this save must then make a Ref save for half damage. This spell overcomes Evasion and Improved Evasion. Anything killed by the spell is vaporized, not even leaving ashes behind, and requires a wish, a miracle or a true resurrection to bring back to life. It is not uncommon for this spell to leave a half-sphere whole in the ground if cast outside or a spherical cave if cast inside a tunnel.

Nice spell, does 60D6 damage at level 20 (lul, nothing wrong with that but you'll definitely need borrow your buddy's dice to save on time :P). Critters are most likely to make the Fort save though, as looking at a list of CR 15-20 monsters, they have Fort saves in the 20+ range, then add in specific immunity to an energy type or two and you'll shave off 10-20D6. So best case you're doing 40-240 damage, and one or two instant deaths if you're lucky :) Which aint bad at all. Good job on this one.


SUNDERING WRATH
Evocation [force]
Components: V, S
Range: Medium (100ft+10ft/level)
Target: One Creature
Casting Time: 1 full round
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: Fort/Half
SR: Yes

A spray of charged magical energy assaults a single target within range dealing 1d8+3 points of Force damage per caster level. The target is flung back by the impact of the spell 5 feet per caster level dealing teh appropiate falling damage should they collide with a solid object. In addition those failing their saving throw are dazed for 1d6 +1/ per 2 levels

I love the utility that this provides a caster :) Great job! Only thing is that its on par with Meteor Swarm (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/meteorSwarm.html#_meteor-swarm), which the OP suggests should be an 8th level spell. Maybe it all balances with the extra utility, but it still seems a bit underpowered :)


Evoker's Storm
Evocation
Level: Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 50 ft./level
Area: Varies (use base spell's stats)
Duration: 1 round/6 levels
Saving Throw: Varies (use base spell's stats)
Spell Resistance: Special (use base spell's stats)

This spell supercharges the area around the caster, allowing for the most powerful evocation effects to spring forth from simple gestures or thoughts. For the duration of the spell, once per turn as a as a move action, the caster can freely cast as many evocation spells as he wants so long as their collective spell levels do not exceed his caster level, all spells have a duration of instantaneous, and no spell exceeds 7th level. (Cantrips count as 1/2 level spells for this spell's purposes.) A caster cannot cast a spell he does not know/would otherwise not have access to.

For example, Tatum, a 20th level wizard, knows Fireball, Magic Missile, Scorching Ray and Delayed Blast Fireball and has the Twinned (+4) and Widened (+3) metamagics. When he casts this spell, he could cast
Scorching Ray 10 times, or
Fireball 6 times and Scorching Ray once, or
20 Magic Missiles, or
3 Widened Fireballs and 2 Magic Missiles, or
5 Scorching Rays and 10 Magic Missiles
all at CL 20th. He could not, however, cast Delayed Blast Fireball as part of this spell as it does not have an instantaneous duration.

Spells cast in this fashion can be affected by metamagic, so long as the caster knows the relevant feat. Creatures affected by multiple effects in this spell only make one save. If the effects target multiple saves, they choose which save to apply. Spells cast as a part of this spell are treated as 9th level but only when beneficial.

/clap :) Way.To.Go. This feels like an awe inspiring 'greatest tier (9th level)' evocation. Well thought, example is flavorful and clear :) This is definitely going into our group's compendium!

--PC

dspeyer
2011-10-26, 09:39 AM
Disintegration Drill: I'm not quite sure where the cylinder originates. Is it a 1-mile line that's 10' wide? Or is it a mile-tall cylinder on top of your head?

It's a mile long, and ten feet wide. You can shoot it up, or sideways, or down, or whatever direction you like.

I pictured it mostly being used sideways. "We'll have to march our army over these mountains." "No we won't, we'll just punch a hole and march straight."


Also, by RAW, I can see a character making the reflex save and then "jumping out the way" by one mile, since that's one of the places where the effect ends.

For the second round of the effect... do plants melt or get cauterized? :smalltongue:


Carmalized :-)


The effect seems a little crazy. Any BBEG tower or dungeon literally needs to be guarded by walls of force in order to stop the disintegration-drilling of obstacles.


Yes. It also needs anti-teleportation wards and something that extends to the ethereal plane.

There was an SG1 episode where Daniel's having trouble unlocking a door in a Goauld monument, so Jack pulls out a couple bricks of C4. This is the slightly-short-of-demigod version of that.



And why would one need a third round of fire damage if nothing exists within the drill any longer?


The third round is essentially useless, but if it needed warmup, it should need cooldown.



An interesting combination would be to toss out some sort of mass-paralysis spell, then use this to mop up.


Well, spending several rounds manually coup-de-grasing sounds dull anyway, so let's speed it up a bit.

Andorax
2011-10-26, 03:26 PM
CRUSHING COLD

Evocation [cold]
Components: V, S
Range: Medium (100ft+10ft/level)
Area: 5ft/2 levels radius
Casting Time: 1 action
Duration: Varies (see below)
Save: Fort Partial (see below)
SR: Yes

A spherical zone of extreme cold forms in the designated area with a radius of 5 feet per two caster levels (maximum 50 feet). All creatures within the area take 1d8 cold damage per caster level (Fortitude save for half), and those who fail their save and suffer damage are also slowed. Slowed targets who both fail their save and are damaged are instead immobilized (movement reduced to 0, unable to take physical action) and any critical threat against them from a bludgeoning weapon while still within the area of effect is automatically confirmed.

The area of effect shrinks by 5 feet in radius each subsequent round at the start of the caster's turn, causing another pulse of extreme cold, resulting in damage and an additional save (as specified above).

Creatures normally immune to cold, but not possessing the actual [cold] subtype, receive a +10 bonus to their Fortitude save and suffer only half normal damage (1/4 on a successful save) and are still subject to the other effects. Creatures who have the [cold] subtype are immune to the effects of this spell.

Noctis Vigil
2011-10-26, 09:55 PM
Earthbound Nova: Interesting name... All right, so small AoE death without the [Death] tag is interesting, but is definitely strong (I'm looking at wail of the banshee, which is only AoE death and can be stopped by death ward), and then there's the damage that comes after.

When I think of spells, I think of them as class features. And ignoring evasion/improved evasion is basically making a caster's class feature ignoring other class features... it's not terrible balance-wise, but it's mean. I dislike it.

You could also say that it affects objects, that way the killing effect hurts undead too. That would be nice.

This is actually a toned down version of a class capstone I gave to a homebrew class of mine; I have yet to actually see how it works in gameplay, but my logic was that most everything is going to pull off the fort save on this, be immune to at least one type of energy by level 20, and resist at least one other (more if they have time to prepare magically ahead of time). As for the Evasion and Improved Evasion thing, looking at it, I think that might be a bit much for a non-epic spell (though not a class capstone), and I may remove it.

I actually got an idea for another 9th level spell, but it may not be evocation; I'll do some research and post later if it is.

Kenneth
2011-11-17, 10:22 PM
Primal Fireball

Evocation [Fire]

Level:Sor/Wiz 3

Components:V, S, M

Casting Time:1 standard action

Range:Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)

Area:20-ft.-radius spread

Duration:Instantaneous

Saving Throw:Reflex half

Spell Resistance:Yes

As you mash together the guano and sulfur with one hand, the other hand sprinkles red dragon spittle over top. A wicked grins is on your countenance as you point to the enemy a tiny ball of primeval fire, perhaps even the heart of teh elemental plane of fire itself lauches as mind boggling velocity towards them.. a loud roar and a rush of wind accompanies a giant ball of flame burning blueish-white and englufing those who would dare stand before you. their cries of pain matching the intensity and shortness of teh explosion of flame.

A primal fireball spell is an explosion of pure ancient flame that detonates with a low roar and deals 1d12 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 30d12) to every creature within the area. Unattended objects also take this damage. The explosion creates almost no pressure.

You point your finger and determine the range (distance and height) at which the primal fireball is to burst. A glowing, pea-sized bead streaks from the pointing digit and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid barrier prior to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the primal fireball at that point. (An early impact results in an early detonation.) If you attempt to send the bead through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, you must “hit” the opening with a ranged touch attack, or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely.

The primal fireball damages objects in the area as if they were affected by the spell heat metal, though any material, not just metal is affected. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the primal fireball may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.

the primal fireball being of such magnitude in heat ignores any and all fire resistance and immunity.

Material Component A tiny ball of bat guano, Red Dragon spittle, and sulfur.

Eldest
2011-11-18, 02:43 PM
For Evoker's Storm, would the spells they cast exaust spell slots/spells used?
Does that question even make sense?

thegurullamen
2011-11-18, 08:28 PM
For Evoker's Storm, would the spells they cast exaust spell slots/spells used?
Does that question even make sense?

Makes sense. I would personally go with 'No', but some DMs might want to limit the spell with a 'Yes' or a 'Yes: Conditional' (say, with the player sacrificing spells with levels equal to a predetermined number.)

tl;dr: DM fiat.

Talentless
2011-11-18, 10:23 PM
Intensify Gravity

Evocation [Force]
Components: V, S
Range: Medium (100ft+10ft/level)
Area: 10ft/2 levels radius
Casting Time: Full Round action
Duration: Varies (see below)
Save: Fort Partial (see below) Ref Partial (see below)
SR: No

By spending a full round casting, the caster may double the effective gravity in the area of the spell, causing 20d6 of falling damage to every creature in the area and forcing them prone. A Fort save with the difficulty of 10 + Damage Taken reduces the damage taken by half and allows the creature to remain upright. A creature who fails their Fort save may make an additional Reflex save to remain upright at 10 + Damage Taken.

The caster may elect to continue channeling after the first round, increasing the gravity in the area again, increasing the damage(and subsequent saves) by 20d6 for every round the caster channels.



Shamelessly ripping the spell idea from the Dresden Files. But modified it slightly so it isn't quite be invisible, channel for X rounds, win the game.

And for a bit of clarification on the damage just to make sure everything is covered, it goes something like this.

1st round 20d6 damage
2nd round 40d6 damage
3rd round 60d6 damage
Etc.

motionmatrix
2011-11-19, 12:56 AM
Some of these are reposts from some threads in the past week dealing with this same or similar question.



Unleash the Evocations
Conjuration, maybe transmutation? (not quite sure)
Level: Sor/Wis 7th, War Mage 7th
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Duration: 1 round per level.
You tap into primal universal energies, creating a rift between planes centered on you, destabilizing the area around you, a font of raw energy. While this area is unstable, all evocations you call upon double the damage they deal. Each evocation you cast reduces the available energy from the rift that you can safely use. You can use one evocation for every 5 caster levels you posses before you must release the rift, which happens as part of the casting of the last evocation or its duration runs out, whichever happens first.
You could actually make this a set of spells, start by just enhancing the next evocation. then the 9th level version maybe triples the damage and has a duration, no charges

Elemental Soul
Evocation (variable)
Level: Sor/Wis 9th, War Mage 9th
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 full round action
Range: Personal
Duration: 1 round per 2 levels.
Saving Throw: See below.
Spell Resistance: See below.

You tap into your very soul, that of a powerful mage whose had a lifetime of elemental forces at his command. Doing this grants you the ability to create one elemental effect each turn as a swift action. This effect duplicates one of the following spells:
Chain Lightning, Cone of Cold, Fireball, Flame Strike, Lightning Bolt, Scorching Ray, Polar Ray, Wall of Fire

The effect however differs in several ways:

The effect has a damage cap of 50 caster levels. Each effect is under the equivalent of the Empowered Spell Feat, Enlarge Spell Feat, Silent Spell Feat, Still Spell Feat, Widen Spell Feat.

If you choose to replicate a Wall of fire, the time increases by one step to a move action.

You choose what element the effect has from among acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic. You may instead choose positive or negative energy, but this turns the effect into a move action. You may instead choose a force effect, but this turns the effect into a standard action. Action increases stack with each other.

If the effect uses cold, electricity, or fire, it is a reflex save and deals 1.5 damage. If the effect uses acid, sonic, or force, it is a fortitude save and bypasses spell resistance. If the effect uses positive or negative energy, it is a will save and its area is doubled.

The effects DCs are as a 9th level spell. You can choose to make the area smaller if you desire. Metamagic feats are applied to the Elemental Soul spell, not to any effects created by it.


From Within
Evocation (variable)
Level: Sor/Wis 9th
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 full round action
Range: Long
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude Partial. Reflex half.
Spell Resistance: No and Yes. See below.

You pick a target in your line of sight, who's body liquids begin to be replaced into whatever element(s) you choose, his body wracking in pain, stunning them for one round. The target receives a fortitude save for half damage and to negate the stun, but Spell resistance does not apply. This effect deals 6d6+int modifier + caster level, this is the base damage. This number is multiplied by 1d8+2.

At the beginning of your next turn, the target's body violently explodes in either a 40 ft. radius burst dealing the base damage multiplied by 1d8, 80 ft. radius burst dealing the base damage multiplied by 1d6, or 300 ft. radius burst dealing the base damage multiplied by 1d4. A reflex save for half is provided, which also allows spell resistance. The original target receives this damage as well.

Any damage with more than one element is divided evenly among all elements used.

Call from Below
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wis 9th, Druid 9th
Components: V, S
Range: Personal
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Duration: 10 mins per level
Save: Reflex saves, see below
SR: Yes, see below

Once this spell is active, as an immediate action at will you can be swallowed by any surface that you are standing upon down to a depth up to 20 ft. per level. You cannot prevent attacks against yourself by doing this, but the act of being pulled below grants you a +8 Dodge bonus to Armor class and Reflex saves against any attacks occurring as this is activated. this movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. As long as you remain below the surface, where you exist comfortably, you gain tremor sense 200 ft. and an appropriate speed to move in the surface equal to your land speed. Coming back out is a free action.

You can chose to pull others below, as you manipulate the surface around you. You can chose to pull either gently or violently as a ranged touch attack (allies can chose to be hit) within medium range with anyone touching the surface or up to 20 ft. per level away from it, the surface stretching like a vacuum cone toward the target. They can be sucked down as far as you can move down yourself.

If you choose to pull gently, the target gains your "speed" for one turn.

If the target is pulled violently, they receive a reflex save and SR to negate. If they fail their save, they go down, taking 1d6 points of damage per level and becoming trapped below the surface.

If the surface is solid, it begins to crush him at the beginning of his turn, dealing 1d8 damage per 2 levels, fortitude negates (NO SR). An escape artist check (DC 15 + the spell DC) allow the target to move his movement back to surface level.

If the surface is liquid, the target begins to suffocate, as per rules.

If the surface is gaseous, follow the rules with that particular gas and how it affects the particular target (e.g. a caster air walking uses this spell and pulls a shark out of the water).

Other surfaces may have special properties as the DM sees fit (e.g. lava).

Dr.Orpheus
2011-11-22, 06:00 AM
A spectacular show of force
Evocation[acid][cold][electricity][fire][force][sonic][mind affecting]
Components: V, S
Range: Long (400ft+40ft/level)
Area: 40ft radius
Casting Time: Full Round action
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: Ref Partial (see below) Will Partial (see below)
SR: Partial (see below)
when you cast A spectacular show of force you unleash all of your offensive arsenal damaging, inspiring and intimidating the masses. You deal 4d6 damage of every energy type except force, and 5d6 force damage. A successful Ref save will half the non force damage. Doing this requires that you fling your spells willy nilly in a powerful fashion. This leaves all viewing you or the affected area are dazed for one round, and then shaken for 1d4 rounds after. A successful Will save will reveal that you are just showing off, and the target that beet the save is not shaken. If a target has spell resistance the they can apply it to the damaging effect, but not the showmanship.

Deepbluediver
2011-11-22, 10:22 AM
So you complain that at 10th level Evokers can't match rogues for damage, and then give them this?

Acid Rain [Acid] (ceilingcat)
Level: S/W 9
Components: V, S, M
Area: 1 mile radius centered on you
Duration: 1r/level
Save: Fort partial
SR: No

You create a brief torrential downpour of acidic rain in a 1 mile radius area centered on you. This storm inflicts 8d6 acid damage each round to everything in the area, including objects, structures, creatures, and plants. This acid damage ignores the hardness of any objects or structures. Creatures in water take 1/2 damage. Creatures at least 50’ beneath the water surface can ignore the spell entirely. Note that the caster is affected by the spell normally.

In addition, anyone who takes acid damage from the spell is nauseated, reduced to sickened with a successful fortitude save.

Acid rain will generally kill any normal animals, will reduce even tall trees to pitted stumps, and turn stone castles to slag. Casting the spell almost certainly earns the enmity of any druids in the area as well as any rulers or good-aligned adventurers.

What can any non-pure-magic based class do that even comes close to affecting EVERYTHING within 1 mile (thats 116 5ft squares, fyi) for hundreds of points of damage.

I'm not asking for complete balance, that's probably impossible, but a little consistency would be nice.

NeoSeraphi
2011-11-22, 11:26 AM
What can any non-pure-magic based class do that even comes close to affecting EVERYTHING within 1 mile (thats 116 5ft squares, fyi) for hundreds of points of damage.

I'm not asking for complete balance, that's probably impossible, but a little consistency would be nice.

Well for starters, you have to be 17th level at least to cast that spell, so the rogue still outdamages the evoker at level 10.

Secondly, non-pure-magic based classes can't do the large majority of what magic can do.

No mundane class can walk on air as if it were solid ground. No mundane class can transform into a different creature every round and gain all their supernatural attacks. No mundane class can stop time. No mundane class can bestow negative levels. No mundane class can resurrect the dead. No mundane class can create zombies. No mundane class can curse a character for life unless that character does exactly what the mundane character tells him to do while simultaneously allowing the player to make a completely appropriate Lelouch of the Rebellion reference.

In fact, what's really inconsistent is that casters are able to outperform mundane in every other respect except damage, without heavy optimization a la DeAnno's signature.

Dr.Orpheus
2011-11-22, 11:49 AM
True dat, but that is still a good spell. It's like a under powered version of the epic level spell Dire Winter. It Can really bring the hurt.

Noctis Vigil
2011-11-22, 11:39 PM
What can any non-pure-magic based class do that even comes close to affecting EVERYTHING within 1 mile (thats 116 5ft squares, fyi) for hundreds of points of damage.

Er, I think you're a little off on your math there. One mile radius is 2 miles across, equaling 10,560 feet, which is 2112 squares across. So the radius would be 1056 squares, and that's just one line of them. I'm not good enough at math to calculate the exact area, but it's a lot of 5ft squares.

About the spell: 1.) It's too powerful for a 9th level spell, I think, at least with a one mile range. I'd shorten the range some or make it a weak epic spell. 2.) Is it a cylinder or a hemisphere area? I'd assume cylinder, since it specifies rain, but how tall an area are we talking with this spell?

Yitzi
2011-11-23, 12:32 AM
Er, I think you're a little off on your math there. One mile radius is 2 miles across, equaling 10,560 feet, which is 2112 squares across. So the radius would be 1056 squares, and that's just one line of them. I'm not good enough at math to calculate the exact area, but it's a lot of 5ft squares.

A very good approximation can be gotten just by taking the actual area of the circle and dividing it by the area of a square; the circle has area of pi square miles, which is piX5760^2 feet, or roughly 104,230,504 square feet; divide that by 25 square feet to a 5' square, and you get 4,169,220 squares. Of course, the quirks of D&D distance calculations will result in the actual "square mile" being somewhat less, but we're still looking at the rough vicinity of 4 million squares.

Deepbluediver
2011-11-24, 12:31 PM
Er, I think you're a little off on your math there. One mile radius is 2 miles across, equaling 10,560 feet, which is 2112 squares across. So the radius would be 1056 squares, and that's just one line of them. I'm not good enough at math to calculate the exact area, but it's a lot of 5ft squares.

About the spell: 1.) It's too powerful for a 9th level spell, I think, at least with a one mile range. I'd shorten the range some or make it a weak epic spell. 2.) Is it a cylinder or a hemisphere area? I'd assume cylinder, since it specifies rain, but how tall an area are we talking with this spell?

Oh yeah, I definitely dropped a digit there somewhere.

Well, that just makes my comment more relevant, right?
Earthquake, also a 9th level spell and an old favorite of mine, only effects an area with a radius of 80ft.

It would be nice if your acid rain storm was at least on the same scale as that.

NeoSeraphi
2011-11-24, 05:09 PM
Oh yeah, I definitely dropped a digit there somewhere.

Well, that just makes my comment more relevant, right?
Earthquake, also a 9th level spell and an old favorite of mine, only effects an area with a radius of 80ft.

It would be nice if your acid rain storm was at least on the same scale as that.

Earthquake is Cleric 8, Destruction 8, Druid 8, Earth 7 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/earthquake.htm).

It's not a 9th level spell at all. It's actually designed to be a 7th level spell (so that it could be allowed into the Earth Domain as a 7th level spell) and pushed back for the other spell lists to 8th.

Yitzi
2011-11-24, 08:15 PM
Earthquake is Cleric 8, Destruction 8, Druid 8, Earth 7 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/earthquake.htm).

It's not a 9th level spell at all. It's actually designed to be a 7th level spell (so that it could be allowed into the Earth Domain as a 7th level spell) and pushed back for the other spell lists to 8th.

Or maybe it was designed to be an 8th level spell, but the Earth domain (like many domains) gets it a bit early. (It's somewhat of a niche spell anyway, so it's not as subject to balance considerations as more overall-useful spells are.)

Deepbluediver
2011-11-26, 12:11 PM
Earthquake is Cleric 8, Destruction 8, Druid 8, Earth 7 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/earthquake.htm).

It's not a 9th level spell at all. It's actually designed to be a 7th level spell (so that it could be allowed into the Earth Domain as a 7th level spell) and pushed back for the other spell lists to 8th.

Wow, ok, sorry again then. I had it in my head for some reason that it was 9th level.

I was really just trying to point out the difference in size of the area it effects compared to other high-level spells. A circle with a 1-mile radius is pretty big.
I kinda thought the point of 9th level spells was "like 8th level, but bigger" not "more powerful than everything else combined".

Keeper of Starlight
2011-11-26, 02:53 PM
Alright, as long as there are spells being contributed, I have a Cold/Sonic one. I've finally realized just how good a feat Extraordinary Spell Aim can be (I tend to bar Evocation). A quick note on etymologies, one geeky, one awesome: Fimbulvetr is, in Fire Emblem, the second most powerful spell in most games. The cooler one, on the other hand, is the actual etymology. Fimbulvetr translates (from Norse) literally into "the great winter," a three-year winter marking the beginning of Ragnarok and the end of the world.

Fimbulvetr
Evocation [Cold] [Sonic]
Level: Wiz/Sor 9
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: 100 ft./level
Area: 20 ft./level, 100 ft. height
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Reflex Partial, Fortitude negates; see text
Spell Resistance: No

As you complete the spell, a storm of freezing wind bursts out in a large radius. Any creature or object caught in the area of the spell takes 3d6 points of Cold damage each round.
Additionally, any creature smaller than Medium size is pushed by the wind 50 ft./round in the direction the storm is spinning, and take 2d6 Sonic damage each round. A creature that is Medium, Large, or Huge must make a Reflex Save each round or be pushed in the same manner and take 2d6 Sonic damage. Creatures with a size larger than Huge do not need to make a save, and do not take any Sonic damage. Any flying creature caught in the storm, regardless of size, is pushed 100 ft./round and takes 4d6 Sonic damage each round (no save). They can make a Strength check each round to move a number of feet toward the edge of the area equal to the check.
Characters who are grounded (who are larger than Huge or who made their Reflex save) can make a similar Strength check to move a number of feet in any direction equal to their check, up to their movement speed. Any object of Huge size or smaller is pushed 50 ft./round, and whenever an object collides with a creature both the creature and the object take 2d6 Bludgeoning damage.
At the end of this spell, any creature that was pushed 100 feet or more by the wind must make a Fortitude Save or be sickened for 2d4 hours.

NeoSeraphi
2011-11-26, 03:07 PM
I kinda thought the point of 9th level spells was "like 8th level, but bigger" not "more powerful than everything else combined".

An example of an 8th level spell and a 9th level spell from the same sourcebook and the same school-

Moment of Prescience- Get +CL (max +25) as an insight bonus to a single attack roll, opposed check, skill check, saving throw, or to your AC, as a free action sometime within the next 24 hours.

A great spell. Fantastic. Really fits with divination, and though its effect is short-lived, it can be a life-saver.

Then a 9th level spell-

Foresight- For 10 minutes per level, you are never surprised or flat-footed. You get a +2 insight bonus to your AC and Reflex saves. Or, you can cast it on a party member, and they are never surprised or flat-footed.

10 minutes per level may seem like a short duration, but this is at the stage of the game where with divination abuse you can hazard a guess at the time of day you will be attacked and prepare accordingly.

Surprise and flat-footed are the two biggest DM counters to spellcasters. Without immediate actions, the majority of a wizard's defenses are gone, and that d4 HD actually matters. But come 17th level, a wizard never worries about that first round again.

gooddragon1
2011-11-26, 04:32 PM
Swarm of Missiles
Evocation [Force]
Level: Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft/lvl)
Targets: See text
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

As you complete the spell, a ring of 1 inch diameter spheres forms 6 inches over your head with each sphere rotating as an ioun stone would in a one foot diameter circular path except at extraordinary speeds.

Swarm of missiles creates 2 missiles per caster level in a ring above your head when it is cast which follow you around in a manner similar to how an ioun stone does. At any time within the duration you may specify a number of targets within range up to your primary casting modifier to be struck by at least one of these missiles for 1d6 damage per missile. These missiles can be set off on contact while rotating and thus it is advisable to cast this spell in an area with at least 8 inches of space above the casters head. The missiles created by this spell strike unerringly as a magic missile would. Spell resistance is checked once per target for the duration of this spell (further attacks from this spell refer to the original result for success or failure).

Keinnicht
2011-11-26, 05:18 PM
Wow, ok, sorry again then. I had it in my head for some reason that it was 9th level.

I was really just trying to point out the difference in size of the area it effects compared to other high-level spells. A circle with a 1-mile radius is pretty big.
I kinda thought the point of 9th level spells was "like 8th level, but bigger" not "more powerful than everything else combined".

Wish is a 9th level spell, and it's range is, for all intents and purposes, "everywhere in the multiverse."

Yitzi
2011-11-26, 06:51 PM
Or, you can cast it on a party member, and they are never surprised or flat-footed.

False; if you don't warn them, they can be surprised or flat-footed.


Surprise and flat-footed are the two biggest DM counters to spellcasters.

Of course, that means that the power of foresight is more a statement about other spells (which prevent there from being easier counters to spellcasters) than about foresight itself.

NeoSeraphi
2011-11-26, 07:04 PM
False; if you don't warn them, they can be surprised or flat-footed.


Well, okay fine, still, if you can drop one on each party member and yourself, you'll be golden for the whole day (which is easy in a 3 person party, especially if your DM is hesitant to allow you to drop a wish or shapechange every combat)



Of course, that means that the power of foresight is more a statement about other spells (which prevent there from being easier counters to spellcasters) than about foresight itself.

Alright then, I'll use a different example. Let's see...

Okay, from the abjuration school:

8th level- dimensional lock- This spell prevents the target from teleporting or planeshifting for 1 day per caster level. Incredibly useful, especially if you want to keep someone held in a prison for a public execution, or if you simply need to keep something locked up and you can't keep it from teleporting otherwise. Drop a new one on it every week and you'll be fine.

9th level- imprisonment- Oh man. DC 19+Mod or be gone forever. Now this is the ultimate abjuration spell, no doubt about it. If you know the target's name (And thus the origin for truespeaking was born!) and "some facts" about its life, the target takes a -4 penalty to its Will save, effectively meaning that the minimum DC is 27 (19+4 from the spell+4 from minimum casting mod needed to cast)

More likely, you're looking at a DC 30-35 saving throw, and the best part is, wish and miracle don't cure it! The only way to save a creature who is imprisoned is to cast a very specific 9th level spell at the site of the casting of the imprisonment spell.

This 9th level spell does not appear on any alternate arcane caster spell list, requires you to know the creature's name and background, and is otherwise so specialized that it is almost guaranteed to never find its way onto a sorcerer's 9th level spells known.

So the absolute only way to reverse imprisonment is to get a 17th level wizard to discover the location of the creature and where the spell was cast, have him teleport there, cast that very specific 9th level spell, and then he will be freed.

Spells like disintegrate, that prevent all but a true resurrection, wish, or miracle have nothing on this. And it's that much crazier than the 8th level abjuration trap spell.

Yitzi
2011-11-26, 08:47 PM
8th level- dimensional lock- This spell prevents the target from teleporting or planeshifting for 1 day per caster level. Incredibly useful, especially if you want to keep someone held in a prison for a public execution, or if you simply need to keep something locked up and you can't keep it from teleporting otherwise. Drop a new one on it every week and you'll be fine.

That's not really a tier-1 or tier-2 sort of spell, more a way of keeping other powerful spells somewhat under control.


9th level- imprisonment- Oh man. DC 19+Mod or be gone forever. Now this is the ultimate abjuration spell, no doubt about it. If you know the target's name (And thus the origin for truespeaking was born!) and "some facts" about its life, the target takes a -4 penalty to its Will save, effectively meaning that the minimum DC is 27 (19+4 from the spell+4 from minimum casting mod needed to cast)

Now this is a good example, although the need for both a melee touch (well, unless you have Arcane Reach and can use a ranged touch) and a save does keep it somewhat under control (if not enough).

I'm not so sure about your statement that Freedom is so specialized...it removes a large range of nasty effects, not only Imprisonment.

NeoSeraphi
2011-11-26, 09:07 PM
Now this is a good example, although the need for both a melee touch (well, unless you have Arcane Reach and can use a ranged touch) and a save does keep it somewhat under control (if not enough).


Familiars can deliver touch spells. Especially ravens. And by taking the Combat Familiar feat, your familiar provokes no attacks of opportunity for entering opponent's squares, so it's really easy to have them toss touch spells around.

Or you can just cast spectral hand. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/spectralHand.htm)



I'm not so sure about your statement that Freedom is so specialized...it removes a large range of nasty effects, not only Imprisonment.

The statement was "Freedom is so specialized that it will probably not earn a place on any sorcerer's 9th level spells known list."

A 20th level sorcerer knows three 9th level spells total. Ignoring all the amazing non-core 9th level spells that have been released, freedom is still competing with time stop, wish, shapechange, imprisonment, etherealness, astral projection, wail of the banshee, shades, gate, dominate monster, mass hold monster, power word kill, disjunction and prismatic sphere.

Then you have "specialized" 9ths, which are good for wizards, but will probably not earn a place on a sorcerer's 9th level spells known. These include weird, energy drain, freedom, refuge, soul bind, and meteor swarm.

Deepbluediver
2011-11-26, 10:58 PM
Wish is a 9th level spell, and it's range is, for all intents and purposes, "everywhere in the multiverse."

Yeah, but it also requires an exp. component to fuel that huge range; something that I don't think is feasible for a spell you want to cast regularly and repeatedly.

The Acid Rain spell is certainly powerful, but I guess it seems kind of boring (to me at least). It hits everything in the area, rapidly and without the chance to run away, or hide, or defend against it or dispell it. Kind of like dropping a nuke on an area gets the job done, but eliminates any sort of quick recovery.
My initial complaint was that the spell had an excessively large area; what if it had a variable area and duration (or acid-intensity) that where inversely proportional to each other? That way you could use it in a short burst over a large area if you need to rid the countryside of...oh lets say killer dandelions. But you could reduce it to a small area for a stronger/longer-lasting effect when you want to melt contstructs or fight dragons.

Noctis Vigil
2011-11-27, 12:46 AM
what if it had a variable area and duration (or acid-intensity) that where inversely proportional to each other? That way you could use it in a short burst over a large area if you need to rid the countryside of...oh lets say killer dandelions. But you could reduce it to a small area for a stronger/longer-lasting effect when you want to melt contstructs or fight dragons.

I actually really like this idea. There aren't a whole lot of spells that do this that I'm aware of...actually, scratch that: off the top of my head, I can't think of any that do that; it would really make the spell stand out and be useful in a lot more situations. I mean really, even epic level spells with a one mile range have a base damage of 1 point per 5-foot square until boosted; this is a 9th level spell that beats some weaker epic spells I've seen.

Yitzi
2011-11-27, 11:00 AM
Familiars can deliver touch spells. Especially ravens. And by taking the Combat Familiar feat, your familiar provokes no attacks of opportunity for entering opponent's squares, so it's really easy to have them toss touch spells around.

Makes sense (although of course then you raise issues with what sources are allowed).


Or you can just cast spectral hand. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/spectralHand.htm)

Read more carefully. :smalltongue: The hand can only deliver spells of 4th level or lower.


The statement was "Freedom is so specialized that it will probably not earn a place on any sorcerer's 9th level spells known list."

A 20th level sorcerer knows three 9th level spells total. Ignoring all the amazing non-core 9th level spells that have been released, freedom is still competing with time stop, wish, shapechange, imprisonment, etherealness, astral projection, wail of the banshee, shades, gate, dominate monster, mass hold monster, power word kill, disjunction and prismatic sphere.

Point.

NeoSeraphi
2011-11-27, 11:09 AM
Makes sense (although of course then you raise issues with what sources are allowed).

I very rarely hear of Complete Arcane being banned, except when it comes to Core-only games.



Read more carefully. :smalltongue: The hand can only deliver spells of 4th level or lower.


So it does. In a Core-only game, you can cast greater invisibility on your familiar, and then it won't provoke attacks of opportunity for entering and delivering the spell.

Yitzi
2011-11-27, 11:55 AM
So it does. In a Core-only game, you can cast greater invisibility on your familiar, and then it won't provoke attacks of opportunity for entering and delivering the spell.

True. (Well, unless your target is standing next to a cleric who's cast invisibility purge...)