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huyche
2011-10-21, 05:48 PM
Hello, fellow GitP dwellers.

I've recently decided to run a less traditional Dark Heresy campaign, a 'behind the enemy lines' kind of story. I'm hoping both the idea and its implementation are going to prove to be more original(and enticing) than the general 'inquisitorial briefing-landing-investigation-shootouts-more investigation-goal' approach.

And now onto some of the specifics.
The planet the majority of action going to place on was recently captured by Tau Empire and the players are going to represent(mostly) some of the remnants of a penal legion that had been quartered there prior to the attack.
These legionnaires along with some locals who had avoided capture and survived the initial attack are now engaged in guerrilla warfare with the new authorities.

I must admit, I am not THAT much familiar with Tau to GM such a game and so I have to ask your advice on WH40K literature you'd recommend for me to read to feel more confident about the whole thing and be able to draw the exposition(so to speak) with more detail and plausibility.

Also, feel free to provide any suggestions on how to improve the story, enrich it with more juicy details.

Thanks in advance.

Sir Augusta
2011-10-21, 06:32 PM
Well, I haven't read much Tau literature (I don't believe that there is much), but I do know alot about Tau from the codexes, as I play WH40K. Feel free to ask me any questions about them, I'll try my best to answer.:smallsmile:

profitofrage
2011-10-21, 11:34 PM
Well for starters Get the Deathwatch rulebook :) it has Tau weapons and soldiers stated out for you to make use off.

Do note...this WILL NOT be easy for the players unless your giving them lots of big weapons or lots of XP.
These enemies make use of power armor and weapons that put big holes through space marines.
ENSURE that your players know this. These are highly trained soldiers of a species that is "effectivly" more advanced then them. There going to need to use stealth, surprise and larger numbers to take these guys out.

The best way to play out the tau threat is to treat them like our modern military.
There highly trained and extremly well equiped.
You wont find Tau soldiers in large masses, rather small highly trained squads.
Sticking around to long will mean backup is called, being caught by surprise means a quick death.

my suggestion is that you let your players have access to a few elite advances such as : "exotic weapon training tau" e.t.c so that they can even the odds against a far better equiped more powerful foe.
You could potentially let them make use of the helmets e.t.c with a tech use test but they should never be able to wear there power armor (made for a different biology afterall)

Hope that helps.

huyche
2011-10-22, 06:12 AM
Well, I haven't read much Tau literature (I don't believe that there is much), but I do know alot about Tau from the codexes, as I play WH40K. Feel free to ask me any questions about them, I'll try my best to answer.:smallsmile:

Alright, straight to questions then.
What would in your opinion be a common composition of a Tau invasion fleet, that could promptly overwhelm a security station orbiting a second grade planet and a small PDF fleet patrolling the system?

Taking into account their objective to quickly eliminate ground opposition(several regiments worth of PDF, an incomplete IG regiment with a mechanized company and a penal legion attached to it) and subdue the local population, what would their incursion armies consist of? I was thinking along the lines of 1-2 Tau regiments coupled with vespid and kroot auxiliaries and additional air caste support.
Now, I'm not entirely sure about the type of aircraft they employ... So, all in all, does it make sense so far?


Do note...this WILL NOT be easy for the players unless your giving them lots of big weapons or lots of XP.
Hey, profitofrage, do you remember me? We've played DH more than a year ago here at GitP.

Anyway, the original plan was for players to start at 4-6th rank, to leave enough room for specialization and to portray them as distinguished individuals among otherwise grey mass of petty criminals.
And yes, its going to be a partially squad commanding game, they won't have to face those dreadful battlesuits alone.


my suggestion is that you let your players have access to a few elite advances such as : "exotic weapon training tau" e.t.c so that they can even the odds against a far better equiped more powerful foe.
Thats a good idea, I'll make sure to hint the players that some of them might've had experience fighting Tau before and learned a thing or two on the use of their exotic weaponry.

king.com
2011-10-22, 06:44 AM
Anyway, the original plan was for players to start at 4-6th rank, to leave enough room for specialization and to portray them as distinguished individuals among otherwise grey mass of petty criminals.
And yes, its going to be a partially squad commanding game, they won't have to face those dreadful battlesuits alone.


Oh man your players are sooo dead if they're fighting battlesuits, regular firewarriors are going to cut them apart if your running this like a line by line fight but the battlesuits cut Astartes down and are going to go straight through your players. Personally the kind of game your describing suits the Deathwatch play style much better, you can actually throw iconic Tau technology at them and expect the players to mostly come out only a little worse for ware.

If you want to run this as a DH game, I would run a battlesuit as the scenario's BBEG, makes the arrival of one (which you can foreshadow) and you can have it single handedly decimate the squads running with the players without difficulty.

As to the Tau troop deployments, that really depends on what the target is. Are they simply there to convert the world to the Greater Good? I would definitely consider Manta dropship support particularly if conflict is still very much in play or if they naval engagements have left Tau ships damanged and are sitting in orbit.

From what I know about the deployment of kroot and Vespids are that they very much take an attacking role or making use of specialised situations. If its a heavily forested world, kroot would be deployed to hunt down the resistance or....gue'la forces (ah ah! SEE WHAT I DID THERE?) would probably be starting to be built up. I think though the vast majority of the forces are going to be straight Fire Warriors, reserve units deployed here while the vet's who took the planet are moving to the front lines. Size of the occupation force all depends on how aggressive the resistance has been, how costly the main war effort has been (and as a result how many units they can spare) and how importan this world is as either a resource point or staging ground for further attacks.

hamishspence
2011-10-22, 06:45 AM
Alright, straight to questions then.
What would in your opinion be a common composition of a Tau invasion fleet, that could promptly overwhelm a security station orbiting a second grade planet and a small PDF fleet patrolling the system?

In both The Taros Intervention (Imperial Armour III), and The Typha Campaign (Tactica Aeronautica) the Tau use Custodian class battleships (one in IA3, two in Tactica Aeronautica) supported by Castellan class escorts.

huyche
2011-10-22, 08:27 AM
In both The Taros Intervention (Imperial Armour III), and The Typha Campaign (Tactica Aeronautica) the Tau use Custodian class battleships (one in IA3, two in Tactica Aeronautica) supported by Castellan class escorts.
Thanks, I'll note it.

@king.com
It certainly now looks to me that I've underestimated the power level of tau troops, the way they are represented in DH\DW rules.
I was under the impression that their regular force was just more 'shooty' and disciplined version of IG, while battlesuits were akin to dreadnoughts in power.

And surely, with the initial goal of breaking planetary defenses, both orbital and ground, fulfilled the majority of Tau occupational army should be redeployed elsewhere, leaving only a token(or close to) force to secure the planet and its population.

profitofrage
2011-10-22, 08:39 AM
Thanks, I'll note it.

@king.com
It certainly now looks to me that I've underestimated the power level of tau troops, the way they are represented in DH\DW rules.
I was under the impression that their regular force was just more 'shooty' and disciplined version of IG, while battlesuits were akin to dreadnoughts in power.

And surely, with the initial goal of breaking planetary defenses, both orbital and ground, fulfilled the majority of Tau occupational army should be redeployed elsewhere, leaving only a token(or close to) force to secure the planet and its population.

Personally....dont be discouraged.
This actually sounds like a REALLY fun game even with the high level of difficulty!
It presents so much more then a simple "shoot the bad guys run off" scenario. There going to have to plan each and EVERY ambush they make, down to what resources they use and when.
Imagine how satisfying it would be after they finally take out that first patrol? Knowing full well that through sheer planning and determination they took out a threat above and beyond what there levels should allow :P

This could turn into an extremly memorable game so long as they 1) know what sort of threat level there up against and 2) there not totally on there own.

king.com
2011-10-22, 08:51 AM
Personally....dont be discouraged.
This actually sounds like a REALLY fun game even with the high level of difficulty!
It presents so much more then a simple "shoot the bad guys run off" scenario. There going to have to plan each and EVERY ambush they make, down to what resources they use and when.
Imagine how satisfying it would be after they finally take out that first patrol? Knowing full well that through sheer planning and determination they took out a threat above and beyond what there levels should allow :P

This could turn into an extremly memorable game so long as they 1) know what sort of threat level there up against and 2) there not totally on there own.

Oh yea definitely go ahead and run it, Im just trying to point out pitfalls and potential problems. Particularly if this is about running a full blown planetary rebelling. You got some great opportunities to roleplay from deciding whether to run suicide bombers in Gue'la recruitment operations, to assassinating human leaders supporting the Tau. Dark Heresy definitely supports this kind of underhanded play, and with the Tau as your technologically superior opponents, you have to play it like this to defeat them.

For some reason the only thing i can think of is the occupation during Battlestar Galatica...

huyche
2011-10-22, 09:16 AM
Oh, sorry, perhaps I left a wrong impression.
I am not going to drop the whole idea altogether, but now I do see(thanks to you) that it requires some serious fine-tuning and work on the details, as the disparity in power levels is somewhat higher than I'd suspected.

Initially I was planning to rely on the distinctive sort of experience or aptitude some of convicts(like natural born killers) might have, compared to some farmer guy freshly conscripted into IG. Then there are such things like suicidal demolition teams, bestial mutant-troops and legionnaires battle-drugged with a deadly cocktail of frenzon, slaught and stimm. Perhaps one or two psykers attached to the legion and kept under strict control by personal overseers too.
Hopefully it'll also help level the difference in power.

profitofrage
2011-10-22, 09:19 AM
Ok i dont want to start saying how you SHOULD play out the game e.t.c but one big hurdle i see coming up is a "lack of impact"
I.e not having equipment that can really make an impact on the power armored soldiers they will be facing.

A really easy believable gap bridger? Krak Grenades.
They would be common as all hell if they found a decent supply and all it would take is for them to get into close combat with them.

Arm it as a half action...flee as a half action and BOOM explosion goes off without them in its blast range. Sure they take a free hit (thus ensuring its not consequence free) but with the Tau being fairly useless in melee (or at least on par) they should come off better.
With superior numbers they could make there first combat a success :) which after looting advanced weapons :P could lead to even more

huyche
2011-10-22, 09:26 AM
You mean lack of punch?
But Tau are not ALL wearing powered armor, are they?
According to internet sources, firewarrior armor equals to carapace(6/5), which I must say is damn powerful anyway.

The Glyphstone
2011-10-22, 09:27 AM
Something you will definitely want to keep in mind for planning this is that the PCs will near-inevitably be fighting their former legion-mates; they're all convicts, some of whom may have been sentenced to penal service because they trespassed on a governor's lawn. When the Tau invade and take over, they will have deserters flocking to them by the bucketload. And the Tau's favorite thing to do with 'converts' is pat them on the head, tell them how great it is they've accepted the Greater Good, then send them off to die for it.

profitofrage
2011-10-22, 09:42 AM
Something you will definitely want to keep in mind for planning this is that the PCs will near-inevitably be fighting their former legion-mates; they're all convicts, some of whom may have been sentenced to penal service because they trespassed on a governor's lawn. When the Tau invade and take over, they will have deserters flocking to them by the bucketload. And the Tau's favorite thing to do with 'converts' is pat them on the head, tell them how great it is they've accepted the Greater Good, then send them off to die for it.

almost certainly only in preperation for a Kauyon style ambush btw.
Thats something else as well. Tau military doctrine is severly limited in its overall scope.
Tau have no true knowledge of defencive tactics...rather prefering to retreat and take old ground or making desicive well planned strikes. Keep in mind this could benefit the guerilla's greatly. Taking out key instalations and forcing a retreat will give them time to gather resources and flee before the inevitable (and overwhelming) counter attack is made.

huyche
2011-10-22, 09:46 AM
Something you will definitely want to keep in mind for planning this is that the PCs will near-inevitably be fighting their former legion-mates; they're all convicts, some of whom may have been sentenced to penal service because they trespassed on a governor's lawn. When the Tau invade and take over, they will have deserters flocking to them by the bucketload. And the Tau's favorite thing to do with 'converts' is pat them on the head, tell them how great it is they've accepted the Greater Good, then send them off to die for it.
Well, there certainly is this dilemma, I'll have to find an incentive for the players(or at least for some of them) to stick with Imperium to the end. Obviously, some of the ex-convicts have different views on where their loyalty lies.
I've aimed from the beginning to ask some if not all of the players to create the characters with the assumption that they are going to be officers or other persons of authority, so its going to be like I have to motivate them to stay loyal, while they have to care for their subordinates. Perhaps they'd fought Tau in past(proficiency with Tau weapons certainly suggests that) and know better than to trust in Greater Good.

profitofrage
2011-10-22, 09:51 AM
Well, there certainly is this dilemma, I'll have to find an incentive for the players(or at least for some of them) to stick with Imperium to the end. Obviously, some of the ex-convicts have different views on where their loyalty lies.
I've aimed from the beginning to ask some if not all of the players to create the characters with the assumption that they are going to be officers or other persons of authority, so its going to be like I have to motivate them to stay loyal, while they have to care for their subordinates. Perhaps they'd fought Tau in past(proficiency with Tau weapons certainly suggests that) and know better than to trust in Greater Good.

well the Tau specifically geld all humans that join them and essentially ensure there extinction. Having the PC's find this out could be a good reason to continue to fight for the emperor?

Perhaps they are there for the pardon they might get for remaining loyal?
Maybe its just in there nature to rebel? and that there just fighting for there right to freedom?

Id suggest making sure the party knows these guys arnt "realy" as friendly as they make themselves out to be. Chemical gelding and garenteed brainwashing is all they can expect from this lot. Though :P apart from the gelding there realy isnt all that big a difference from the imperium.

huyche
2011-10-22, 09:58 AM
well the Tau specifically geld all humans that join them and essentially ensure there extinction. Having the PC's find this out could be a good reason to continue to fight for the emperor?

Perhaps they are there for the pardon they might get for remaining loyal?
Maybe its just in there nature to rebel? and that there just fighting for there right to freedom?

Id suggest making sure the party knows these guys arnt "realy" as friendly as they make themselves out to be. Chemical gelding and garenteed brainwashing is all they can expect from this lot. Though :P apart from the gelding there realy isnt all that big a difference from the imperium.
Yeah, yeah, I've thought of it too, I honestly doubt any of them would prefer emasculation to fighting back. And surely I'll present an opportunity to gain much wanted freedom or wave with a prospect of it, to keep them fighting on the right side.

The Glyphstone
2011-10-22, 10:01 AM
The Tau geld human converts? That seems odd, since I'm pretty sure I've read about Gue'la troops who were the children/descendents of recruited converts, raised to the brainwashing of the Greater Good from birth.

profitofrage
2011-10-22, 10:04 AM
The Tau geld human converts? That seems odd, since I'm pretty sure I've read about Gue'la troops who were the children/descendents of recruited converts, raised to the brainwashing of the Greater Good from birth.

Eh the speed in which they do it changes depending on whos writing it.
Sometimes its a quick snip the second they join other times they pump chemicals into the water supply of a world so that over generations humans become less fertile..till eventually human numbers are so small noone notices that they just "disapeared" one season.

I believe this little "Trait" of the tau empire was added after the complaints that the Tau were not grimdark enough for the setting :P

The Glyphstone
2011-10-22, 10:06 AM
It's also rather out-of-character for them, even with grimdarkness - they don't apparently do this to any of their other servitor races, so why humans in particular? Was this info added in the newest Tau codex?

profitofrage
2011-10-22, 10:08 AM
It's also rather out-of-character for them, even with grimdarkness - they don't apparently do this to any of their other servitor races, so why humans in particular?

Due to there inherent threat to the greater good as a species I believe was the reason behind it.
Lets not forget that the only "servitor" species you actually hear about are the ones that ruitenly show there usefulness to the tau empire?
I wonder how many species simply coexist with them without poviding vital military or industrial aid? :P
Thats the whole "evil underbelly" that was injected into the race. They only keep the species they see as useful...and humans arnt on that list.

The Glyphstone
2011-10-22, 10:10 AM
Due to there inherent threat to the greater good as a species I believe was the reason behind it.
Lets not forget that the only "servitor" species you actually hear about are the ones that ruitenly show there usefulness to the tau empire?
I wonder how many species simply coexist with them without poviding vital military or industrial aid? :P
Thats the whole "evil underbelly" that was injected into the race. They only keep the species they see as useful...and humans arnt on that list.

Fair enough. Maybe it just bothers me because my primary army has been a IG Mechanized Regiment decked out in Tau paint schemes and decals for 4-5 years now. Got an Ethereal 'Commissar' and everything.

profitofrage
2011-10-22, 10:13 AM
Fair enough. Maybe it just bothers me because my primary army has been a IG Mechanized Regiment decked out in Tau paint schemes and decals for 4-5 years now. Got an Ethereal 'Commissar' and everything.

personally i prefer the evil underlayer but everone has there preferences.
I honestly cant remember where i got all this from...but i dont see myself as inventive enough to come up with it :P im sure i saw it somewhere.

I do remember there being an outcry when they first were introduced however. that they "didnt fit the setting..good guys dont belong here!" so they were injected with "insidious xeno" during a retcon somewhere.

Sir Augusta
2011-10-22, 10:47 AM
Sorry about the late answer- A Tau invasion fleet would consist of;

-A few ships ( more than the PDF have, as the Tau would have intel on the planet)

-2- 3 Cadres ( Each with 3-4 infantry squads, 1-2 stealth teams, 3 crisis suit squads, kroot or vespid auxillaries, pathfinders), and an Etheral with his elite guard.

-Armor support (2 Devilfish APCs per cadre, with 3 Hammerheads, a few Piranha Light Skimmer squads (each with 2-5 Piranhas)

The Tau would also most likely be counting on some humans, including the governor. (Usually the Tau convince the planetary governor to join them prior to an invasion, and he brings some of his men over to the Tau side). You could incorporate this into your campaign by having your players need to distinguish between loyalist imperial citizens and defector humans who sided with the Tau.

hamishspence
2011-10-22, 11:01 AM
personally i prefer the evil underlayer but everone has there preferences.
I honestly cant remember where i got all this from...but i dont see myself as inventive enough to come up with it :P im sure i saw it somewhere.

I do remember there being an outcry when they first were introduced however. that they "didnt fit the setting..good guys dont belong here!" so they were injected with "insidious xeno" during a retcon somewhere.

I believe the first layer of it was Dawn of War: Dark Crusade.

Deathwatch has a more recent version.

profitofrage
2011-10-22, 11:04 AM
I believe the first layer of it was Dawn of War: Dark Crusade.

Deathwatch has a more recent version.

Oh LORD dont tell me thats where i got it from.
I only saw that ending like a month ago I SWEAR!

huyche
2011-10-22, 11:08 AM
Sorry about the late answer- A Tau invasion fleet would consist of;

-A few ships ( more than the PDF have, as the Tau would have intel on the planet)

-2- 3 Cadres ( Each with 3-4 infantry squads, 1-2 stealth teams, 3 crisis suit squads, kroot or vespid auxillaries, pathfinders), and an Etheral with his elite guard.

-Armor support (2 Devilfish APCs per cadre, with 3 Hammerheads, a few Piranha Light Skimmer squads (each with 2-5 Piranhas)

The Tau would also most likely be counting on some humans, including the governor. (Usually the Tau convince the planetary governor to join them prior to an invasion, and he brings some of his men over to the Tau side). You could incorporate this into your campaign by having your players need to distinguish between loyalist imperial citizens and defector humans who sided with the Tau.
Interesting, I haven't considered that. So, you're saying its common practice for Tau?
Its certainly going to pose additional trouble(but when was it ever easy?) at some point to have a defector enemy to face too.

hamishspence
2011-10-22, 11:14 AM
I haven't seen the game, so don't know precisely what was said- I only know that it's commonly attributed as a source of Tau "grimdarkness".

From Deathwatch:

page 352:

The Sept's humans (referred to by the Tau as "Gue'la") adhere not to the Imperial Creed, but to the Tau ideal of the Greater Good. The Tau teach that the perfect society, one modelled after the Tau themselves, has a place for every creature; with every creature in that place, fulfilling their assigned roles without question, for the good of the Sept as a whole. Imperial religion is prohibited and the Tau Water Caste run education (and re-education) programs that instil an understanding and love of the Greater Good into the sometimes reluctant gue'la minds. Populations are regularly sterilised to prevent population growth outstretching Tau methods of control. Human transgressors against the Greater Good are not publicly executed, as is the Imperial way, for the Tau see no need to publicise the fates of those who oppose them. Instead, such gue'la simply disappear, and it is the way of the Greater Good to convince oneself that they never existed at all.

GolemsVoice
2011-10-22, 06:53 PM
You mean lack of punch?
But Tau are not ALL wearing powered armor, are they?

While the Tau have a great array of suits fit for all manner of roles, I don't think normal fire warrior suits are powered. At least not in the way SM armor is.

You could also include a mission where the players have to take a station able to communicate through the sector, from where they can send a distress call and feed valuable strategic data to the fleet that is hopefully coming.
If the Tau really convinced the governor, it's quite likely the Imperium doesn't even know that something's amiss. Also, this provides your players with the feeling that they don't have to retake the planet on their own, just hold out long enough until the fleet arrives, while doing as much damage as possible in the process.
Of course, depending on how grimdark you like it, the fleet may just never arrive, and they are left fighting an endless war they cannot win, and each month it get's harder to convince themselves that help will arrive and the Emperor has not just forgotten them.

huyche
2011-10-23, 04:39 AM
You could also include a mission where the players have to take a station able to communicate through the sector, from where they can send a distress call and feed valuable strategic data to the fleet that is hopefully coming.
If the Tau really convinced the governor, it's quite likely the Imperium doesn't even know that something's amiss. Also, this provides your players with the feeling that they don't have to retake the planet on their own, just hold out long enough until the fleet arrives, while doing as much damage as possible in the process.
Of course, depending on how grimdark you like it, the fleet may just never arrive, and they are left fighting an endless war they cannot win, and each month it get's harder to convince themselves that help will arrive and the Emperor has not just forgotten them.
Thank you for your helpful input, this definitely is going to take place during campaign.