fun with multiclassing, is it worth it? [3.5]

[kulosle]

so in my current campaign the DM, as a challenge to the players, made synergy feats from the CS CAdv (devoted performer, ascetic mage, martial stalker, swift hunter, etc) free if you have at least 1 level in each class (prestige base classes count towards getting these feats and if you are going with the no spellcasting variant of ranger or paladin you don't have to have the spell casting requirements but you don't gain the spell levels, other variants can also be applied to the prestige class).
then we have that one player that took it a little too far. his starting character:
bard 1, paladin 1, monk 1, ranger 1

The DM let his bard level work in place of a sorcerer level for ascetic mage. he's focusing on cha and trying to loose as much MAD as possible, and he's doing a good job, his character is still nothing to admire, but it doesn't suck as much as you might think at first glance

so for funzies i thought it would be fun to try and make some similar builds. given these free feats is there any sorta fun builds that could be made.

rules
1)all d&d source books allowed, no magazines. the only book i think we don't have is "from the east" or something like that.
2)you must have at least half your levels in classes that work towards these feats
3)must you at least 4 of these feats, more is encouraged
4)two flaws max

complete adventure synergies
ascetic hunter- monk/ranger
ascetic knight- monk/paladin
ascetic mage- monk/arcane
ascetic rogue- monk/rogue
devoted performer- paladin/bard
devoted tracker- paladin/ranger

complete scoundrel synergies
ascetic stalker- monk/ninja
daring outlaw- swashbuckler/rogue
daring warrior- swashbuckler/fighter
martial stalker- fighter/ninja
master spell thief- arcane/spell thief
swift ambusher- scout/rouge
swift hunter- scout/ranger


my suggestion to my friend was to get the paladin/ranger levels up so he could actually have his mount and animal companion so maybe a build like monk 2, bard 1, paladin 5, ranger 4, then probably iaijutsu master since he's such focusing on cha, might actually be doable.

any opinions on his build or on another build that you think might be fun.
and i'll just link this right now.http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=215.0 all the ways of trying to reduce mad.

[Snowbluff]

Ok, why is he using ascetic mage if there is a paladin/monk synergy? Is he trying to get full monk armor progression.

I think being mad is inevitable with this set up ( he is part paladin!), and that paladin and ranger a re contributing little, if not, little to this build. There are ways to make multiclassing worth it, but 4 classes with no abilities that overlap well, along with 2 half casters that'll probably only get 1st level spells doesn't mesh well in my mind. It could be worth it with some tweaking, but it seems like all you get is unarmed progression from monk, which is already.

As far as MAD goes, he needs Con for Health, Str for hitting things (Pally/ranger), Wis for 2 casting classes that'll never get spells and AC bonus, Cha for Casting, Lay on Hands Paladin), and Handle Animal (Ranger), Int for... not much (skills? All those cross-calss handle animal points need to come from somewhere), also Dex for AC (optional, but he's a monk, so he probably isn't wearing armor). It seems your friend has made a build with the worse case of MAD possible, needing all six stats.

IMO, he should only level Bard (a class I am not personally fond of, but a good one), so he can get this 9th levels spells, and whatever bonus ascetic mage will get him.

[flabort]

To note: It's not Devoted Performer, it's Divine Performer. Also, there's Devoted Inquisitor (Paladin/Rogue), from the first book (Comp Adv).

So, ranger/paladin/monk is obvious.

That nets you ascetic knight/hunter, and devoted tracker.
So, both your paladin+ranger levels boost your unarmed strike, and your Monk+paladin both stack for smite evil.
Your monk+paladin levels both atribute different things to your ranger abilities, though.

Ascetic Rogue is nice. Again, stacks for unarmed damage, and when you sneak attack to deliver a stunning attack, bonus.
If you're getting that, though, you're also getting Devoted Inquisitor. Sneak attack+smite evil on the same attack causes dazing.

Ranger/Rogue/scout is also interesting. We already have 2/3, so tack on a level of scout.
Now we add rogue+ranger both to scout for skirmish, scout adds to ranger for favored enemies, and we can qualify for ambush feats easier.

So, what have we got:
Ranger/Paladin/Monk/Rogue/scout
5 classes, ouch. now to figure out the best ballance to maximize everything.

So, ranger adds/is added to 3/4 others, rogue to 3/4, monk to 3/4, paladin to 3/4, and scout only to 2/4.
everything but scout adds to our unarmed damage, and... I can't see any use for scout we can't get by taking other classes. So, scout is out again.

So, we only need one or two levels of Monk, because everything advances the nice stuff from there.
rogue still doesn't add to ranger, but that's OK. How much do we need? enough to sneak attack regularly. 1-3 should be enough.
paladin gets us smite evil, which is our /day ability. we can add it to sneak attack, which is nice. So, a few more levels in this.
ranger doesn't add much. favored enemy, and when we use stunning fist against one of those guys, we get a small bonus. If we have enough levels to get our Animal Companion, OK, that's good. So roughly 5 levels should be good.

So, Rogue 1/Monk 2/Ranger 5/Paladin 12.

That's the best I can find so far. I'll get (the rest of the) feats and/or prestige classes soon.

[kulosle]

Ok, why is he using ascetic mage if there is a paladin/monk synergy? Is he trying to get full monk armor progression.

I think being mad is inevitable with this set up ( he is part paladin!), and that paladin and ranger a re contributing little, if not, little to this build. There are ways to make multiclassing worth it, but 4 classes with no abilities that overlap well, along with 2 half casters that'll probably only get 1st level spells doesn't mesh well in my mind. It could be worth it with some tweaking, but it seems like all you get is unarmed progression from monk, which is already.

As far as MAD goes, he needs Con for Health, Str for hitting things (Pally/ranger), Wis for 2 casting classes that'll never get spells and AC bonus, Cha for Casting, Lay on Hands Paladin), and Handle Animal (Ranger), Int for... not much (skills? All those cross-calss handle animal points need to come from somewhere), also Dex for AC (optional, but he's a monk, so he probably isn't wearing armor). It seems your friend has made a build with the worse case of MAD possible, needing all six stats.


ascetic mage lets you use cha instead of wis for ac, maybe other abilities AFB right now can't check. he's going for a level in fist of the forest for his con to ac. also there is a paladin variant that lets him ad his cha to ac that he is getting. IMO he should keep it to his saves, but i guess there are other ways of getting divine grace.

Rogue 1/Monk 2/Ranger 5/Paladin 12

and this actually looks very playable.

oh and i was just thinking, if the paladin prestige class counts towards the feat, how would a divine bard that takes the turn undead feat (the class featire bonus feats in the UA are allowed) taking prestigious paladin work. and what other classes would you take with it, prestigious ranger? sounds do able.