so, I've already become the kool-aid man.... or "what to do after dungeon crasher?"

[big teej]

greetings playgrounders,


I'm rolling up a dungeon crasher, (4th level) so in 2 levels I'll have gotten everything I'm going to get out of the Fighter.


so now I'm wondering what to go into at level 7

my initial though was a knight, but then I realized that by level 7 I should be getting ready to go into a Prc (if not going into it that level)

so I'm curious.

where would you go after taking dungeoncrasher to level 6?


one last note, my group plays sword-and-board, blasters, and healbots.... gauge your advice accordingly.

[hex0]

Doomlord (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040706a&page=3) also focuses on breaking things. (Planar Handbook) You'll want some casting first though.

[Glimbur]

Barbarian is ok. Rage makes you bullrush better. It also opens up a whole bunch of PrCs.

[drakir_nosslin]

Warblade or Crusader, take a few Stone Dragon maneuvers and smash through adamantine doors as well. Also White Raven. And IHS.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Get Enlarge Person + Permanency at caster level 20 to possibly avoid dispels, which should cost only 3,700 gp, and take Knock-Back from Races of Stone.

Use the Zhentarim Soldier substitution levels (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) and take Fighter to 9th, then get Warblade 10, then take your tenth Fighter level at 20 and use the bonus feat for Weapon Supremacy. Warblade even lets you repick what weapon you've got (greater) focus/specialization/supremacy with.

[ThiefInTheNight]

War Mind for picking up Expansion seems like a not-bad plan.

[nedz]

What do you want ?

If you were after Divine casting, then there are a number of "Templer" style PrCs you could walk into.

Its probably a bit late for Arcane casting: though a 2 level dip in Warlock, or even Sorceror might be interesting.

Its probable too late to make a skill monkey of any kind.

More input would be useful: there are just too many parameters.

[Chronos]

Since dungeoncrasher does damage which depends strongly on your Str, you could also go for something that increases Str. The simplest option here is Barbarian, for the rage.

[ThiefInTheNight]

War Hulk certainly improves Str...

[Metahuman1]

Barbarian and Warblade 1 each. I'd also get a couple of level of feat rogue and a level of swordsage. Pump Jump, Tumble, and UMD with the extra skill points, maybe concentration if you think you can get the check to be meaningfully higher then your Reflex or will save.

Use Diamond mind maneuvers on swordsage progression to supplement saving throws. Iron heart surge for when you blow a save. Also set up setting sun counters and an emergency sudden leap use. Grab a nifty stance or two while your at it.

On Warblade, pick up adaptive style and invest in emerald razor strike, sudden leap, mountain hammer, and the maneuvers that help grapple and bulls rush checks. White raven also gives you some options too look at for the rest of your stuff.

Get the Knock back feat, extra rage a couple of times, and rampaging bulls rush. There's also a feat that lets you charge when your falling automatically. I think it's called battle jump.

Use it and a swift action sudden leap to get airborn over the target and get a maneuver use + Full attack every round, downgrading your move action to a swift action to reset warblade maneuvers. Dungeon Crash + Knock Back + Rampaging Bulls Rush + Full power attack + Sudden Leap + Battle Jump + Pounce + a Flanking buddy = Much badness.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Warblade or Crusader, take a few Stone Dragon maneuvers and smash through adamantine doors as well. Also White Raven. And IHS.


Barbarian and Warblade 1 each. I'd also get a couple of level of feat rogue and a level of swordsage. Pump Jump, Tumble, and UMD with the extra skill points, maybe concentration if you think you can get the check to be meaningfully higher then your Reflex or will save.

Use Diamond mind maneuvers on swordsage progression to supplement saving throws. Iron heart surge for when you blow a save. Also set up setting sun counters and an emergency sudden leap use. Grab a nifty stance or two while your at it.

On Warblade, pick up adaptive style and invest in emerald razor strike, sudden leap, mountain hammer, and the maneuvers that help grapple and bulls rush checks. White raven also gives you some options too look at for the rest of your stuff.

Get the Knock back feat, extra rage a couple of times, and rampaging bulls rush. There's also a feat that lets you charge when your falling automatically. I think it's called battle jump.

Use it and a swift action sudden leap to get airborn over the target and get a maneuver use + Full attack every round, downgrading your move action to a swift action to reset warblade maneuvers. Dungeon Crash + Knock Back + Rampaging Bulls Rush + Full power attack + Sudden Leap + Battle Jump + Pounce + a Flanking buddy = Much badness.
Uh, guys?

one last note, my group plays sword-and-board, blasters, and healbots.... gauge your advice accordingly.

First unofficial rule of posting. Always read the first post.

[flumphy]

Uh, guys?


First unofficial rule of posting. Always read the first post.

Unless there's another pure melee character, I don't think using Tome of Battle necessarily means he's going to dramatically outshine anyone, especially if he focuses White Raven or maneuvers that just increase his survival.

[Acanous]

I actually have a dungeoncrasher who went Barbarian. Take a look at "Trapbreaker" from Dungeonscape- same place as dungeoncrasher. Gives you additional AC and save bonuses against traps (Which stack with Dungeoncrasher's) and trapsense.

That, and Barbarian, as players here have noted, synergises very well with dungeoncrashing.

[NineThePuma]

Take Fighter to 9, then switch to Samurai for 10, then grab Fighter 10.

Use Intimidation Awesomesauce.

[JackRackham]

In that group, I'd avoid ToB completely. Still, if you wanna be good at what you do, you could take power attack, improved bullrush, shocktrooper, knockback, and (4 extra juice) leap attack with your feats. If you can manage 5 ranks in balance and spare another two for a skill trick there's one (acrobatic charge? Nimble charge?) that let's you turn up to 90 degrees on a charge. So charge, (leap), power attack your BAB, and when you hit, knock the enemy into a wall for a bunch of damage. Then, I'd say dip into barbarian. This feat chain should be finished soon enough, so you can go into Bear Warrior to add some alternate combat options (I'm a brown bear with a gazillion str, so I attack you and grapple as a free action comes to mind....). Shuts down casters if you can reach them before they cast hold persn or similar.

[big teej]

great suggestions so far, keep em coming, I've got 3 new questions to add to the discussion

question 1.

you have the option to NOT follow the bad guy when you bull rush him.... if he flies far enough to hit something, does he still take damage?

question 2.

Brutal Surge allows you to make a bull rush attempt with the opposed check being damage as opposed to your strength check.... would the dungeon crasher damage apply to this?

question 3.
does the object the victim runs into also take the 4d6 + strx2 damage? or no?

[Kaje]

War Mind for picking up Expansion seems like a not-bad plan.

Good luck getting that 8 ranks of Know: Psi.

[kardar233]

I'd say this is probably too high-op for the group, but if you happen to be Large (or count as via Goliath, Jotunbrud etc.), take some pages from the Hood (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872838/Little_Red_Raiding_Hood:_A_Tale_of_38;_Guide_to_th e_3.5_Dragoon) (the whole jump-at-enemies shtick) and get either Knockback or a weapon that auto-Bull Rushes (can't remember the enchantment name).

Leap up above people and smash them into the ground for mega damage.

[Metahuman1]

[QUOTE=big teej;12080246
question 1.

you have the option to NOT follow the bad guy when you bull rush him.... if he flies far enough to hit something, does he still take damage?

[/QUOTE]

With Knockback feat I know you do.

[ZardozSpeaks]

there is a 3.0 feat in sword and fist called power lunge. When you charge you deal extra damage equal to your str x2, BUT you provoke an AOO. Not a horrible trade off depending on the opponent.

Also, maybe get some grappling?

[Hand_of_Vecna]

I'll third taking the zhent soldier ACF as well and taking fighter to nine or ten then ya whatever you think won't break the game. A little Warblade or a little barbarian.

Zhent is great and keeps you solidly in tier 4 territory and hey you get to have Fighter 10 on your character sheet and not suck.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

great suggestions so far, keep em coming, I've got 3 new questions to add to the discussion

1. With a standard bull rush action as outlined in the Combat chapter of the PHB, you must move with your target. Certain other effects, namely the Knock-Back feat I mentioned, as well as a Brutal Surge weapon, and the feat Driving Attack in PH2, allow you to bull rush an opponent back without moving with them.

2. I think you're thinking of the Driving Attack feat in PH2. The current version of Brutal Surge in MIC does not add damage to the bull rush check. Driving Attack allows you to use "your total bonus on damage rolls in place of your Strength modifier." This bonus would be your weapon's damage for a standard melee attack as though you weren't using this feat, so Str bonuses to damage, Enhancement bonuses, Weapon Specialization, and Power Attack would all apply. Basically your weapon damage without any of the dice included replaces your Str bonus for this bull rush. Dungeoncrasher doesn't get added on until after the bull rush occurs, so it would not be added in for this bonus. Note that at Fighter 6 your Dungeoncrasher damage increases to 8d6 plus three times your Strength bonus.

3. It says your momentum crashes your opponent against a solid object, dealing the indicated damage. If it did deal that damage to the solid object as well, then it would have been stated in the ability, so no.

[JaronK]

Lion Totem/Wolf Totem Barbarian, and use Shield Charge + Shield Slam + Knockback to smash everything. Shock Trooper makes this even more fun. War Hulk is an obvious choice.

JaronK

[HunterOfJello]

Awesome Dips and Awesomesauce




Rogue 2 - both the SA and bonus fighter feat versions are great for grabbing skill points and evasion

Monk 2 - evasion again, lots of feat options if you want them

Warblade X - self explanatory awesomeness

Crusader X - self explanatory awesomeness

Cleric 1 - Domains! and you can cast some fun healing spells

Barbarian X - barbarians are badass. Raging to enter cool prestige classes along with increased speed

Psychic Warrior 2 - good if you have a nice Wis score. psionic powers and 2 free feats from the fighter or psionic feats list

Ardent X - similar to psychic warrior, but with a much faster progression of powers. If you take Ardent and level 6 along with Practiced Manifester, then you can get some higher level powers real fast.

Totemist 2 - lots of random awesome abilities and bonuses which could come in handy. really a great class to add new abilities to a character with

Warshaper 3 - Play a changeling and revel in your new immunities to stunning and critical hits, +4 to Strength and Constitution, and +5ft Reach.

[hex0]

With Knowledge Devotion (which isn't a bad feat anyway), you could get into Warmind much easier. Expansion is great.

I didn't hear any comments on my Doomlord suggestion. Other than the healing reduction (mitigated somewhat by d12 hit die and CON boosts), I don't think it is a horrible class (especially based on the character optimization level of the party). I just think the concept of a character that smashes enemies into walls is just meant to join the Doomlords. :smallwink: And sometimes it is better to just build an interesting character, in my opinion.