It's not easy being a Necromancer.

[littleclotty]

Is there a way to get around the illogical prejudice that most guards have against necromancers that bring their undead with them inside city walls? It's always such a hassle to leave them hidden in a copse of trees a half mile away while I go inside the city on a shopping trip. It also brings into question, exactly how far away from his undead can a cleric be before his command ability doesn't keep them in line?

It would be nice if their was some spell I could cast on multiple undead that would hide their alignment from nosy paladins and other do-gooders. The level 2 cleric spell "undetectable alignment" only works on a single target. Also I would think that this spell would raise suspicions when someone casts a detect alignment spell and finds out that it's being blocked.

[marcielle]

Hollow out zombie land sharks. Create a door on it's side. Load all your zombies into them(they can be as cramped as possible, since undead don't care about being comfortable). Have them follow you underground and pop up when needed. If you need to, find some manner of shrinking your bigger zombies or biggening your land sharks.

[ThiefInTheNight]

This is somewhat setting-dependent, so don't expect any hard-and-fast, by-the-rules, RAW answer. There is none.

And for what it's worth, the default setting used in 3.5 had the undead as "Always Evil" and the mere act of animating a corpse was an inherently evil act, regardless of the purposes to which the undead was put (which is why no such RAW answer exists). Undead, by default, are evil and are therefore dangerous; it makes sense to keep them out of towns. In such settings, undead whose masters lose control are probably prone to seeking out the nearest living thing and eating its brains, or something.

However, if the setting doesn't have "Always Evil" undead, and the various Necromancy spells related to their creation aren't tagged [Evil] (and, to be perfectly honest, there are a lot of problems with that default with respect to mindless undead), then it does not make sense to keep them out. In such a setting, undead are more-truly mindless, and will do nothing or continue to follow their last order, should the Necromancer lose control. However, that said, especially if you have a relatively ignorant populace, even if the undead aren't inherently evil the townspeople may believe they are and still keep them out.

If you have the former (legitimately Evil undead, regardless of how much sense that does or doesn't make), your character is probably Evil, or at least by the rules is probably supposed to be unless his constant acts of Good counteract his Evil acts of Necromancy (putting him in a sort of "the ends justify the means" Neutral). Of course, the alignment rules are... kind of dumb. Especially in this instance.

If you have the latter (ignorant populace), then it becomes a matter of education plus recognition (which is kind of like education anyway). You need to teach people that undead aren't automatically evil, and then convince them that you, personally, are not evil either. Even then, you'll probably have to be some kind of hero to them for them to give you an exception like that.

But I think that could be a very cool character/personal quest for a Necromancer. Try talking to your DM about it. Depending on his ideas about the setting, you may be able to accomplish this.

[denthor]

Why do you need zombies on a shopping trip?

Enter a town live by there rules unless your are Chaotic Evil. Then live by the rules you make and you better be able to kill the town.

Leave the orders to the zombies stand here and defend. Hope no comes over. They will kill anybody that does then you will be in the hot seat for murder.

So best to leave the zombies at your home base miles away from the city.

That is the only way to be a Necromancer.

Alternate plan find a base of operation in the wilderness that is evil. That allow zombies. Pay higher prices with scum like yourself and have things delivered. Great source of npc's all evil untrustable maybe nuetral if lucky.

Plan C Found a town and let the scum in with there undead

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Ideally, use incorporeal undead. They can hide in the ground and follow you around undetected.

Your second best option is to use illusions and the Disguise skill. Dread Necromancers get Disguise as a class skill for good reason. Armor and clothing that covers them is useful, especially helms or hoods. Leprosy can be the best disguise ever. Illusions like Persistent Image can make them look like ordinary people, or plain old Invisibility could work. I wonder what Invisibility + Permanency on a corpse before animating it would do, possibly the invisibility would return 10 minutes after it attacks? The Invisible Spell metamagic feat in Cityscape could be combined with Animate Dead for some interesting effects.

[Anderlith]

Have your zombies where a cloak with a hood. Problem solved

[faceroll]

Use the disguise undead spell.

[Calanon]

Kill the entire town than just take what you want... WHAT? I'm not the only one who thought of it :belkar:

Note: This works better with Wights instead of regular zombies for obvious reasons...

[Elemental]

Well, if the town has sewers, or tunnels, or catacombs, or something underneath it, and people rarely go down there, you could just command your army to sneak in somehow.

[Socratov]

wait a minute- first, why would you sneak an undead army into a city. I mean, I'm gonna assume it's a friendly city which you are not trying to take over.. and you want you rarmy with you? I mean even as a Dread necro, you can still cast as a sorcerer. Just leave them stabled outside the city. They can always crawl through the sewers if you really need them...

[Coidzor]

Before you cast animate dead, you can use the shrink item + permanency trick on the corpse/skeleton. Huge is about the largest you really want to get for combat form minions, and that'll get 'em down to the size of house cats. If they're Large instead then they'll be as big as skulls. Fairly easy to get that into town, especially if you're following the recommended strategy of having a few elite combat servitors.

Additionally, the spell haunt shift (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19862018/Expanding_on_Haunt_Shift?pg=1)can allow you to store your minions inside of mundane objects as haunting presences and then draw them out again. Or just go the full monty (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2242.0) and allow you to trade lackluster undead for custom-built animated objects of doom.

And, of course, bags of holding, portableholes, and private demi-planes, depending upon level.

[Elemental]

The problem with leaving them outside the city is that they might not get there in time if you really need them. It's best to keep them on hand somehow.

[Medic!]

EVERY necromancer should have a portable hole full of undead. It's thoughtful, convinient, and practical. Take 'em where you want, and if someone gets mouthy, have your meat-head push 'em in the hole!

[Leon]

Wrap them up in bandages and a cloak, tell people its your mute leper manservant.

[Divayth Fyr]

Wrap them up in bandages and a cloak, tell people its your mute leper manservant.
Does that even work in most systems, where about 95% of all diseases can be healed with a single spell? I'd say that this would most likely result with the guards calling the local priest to heal the manservant (not wanting to take even the smallest risk of the disease spreading). And that wouldn't be too good (both for the undead and the necro...)

[Knaight]

Does that even work in most systems, where about 95% of all diseases can be healed with a single spell? I'd say that this would most likely result with the guards calling the local priest to heal the manservant (not wanting to take even the smallest risk of the disease spreading). And that wouldn't be too good (both for the undead and the necro...)

Wait, most systems? I'm not sure most systems even have spells, let alone easy healing. Plus, some settings with easy healing don't have it widely - see Reign, where there is one bunch of healing mages in the desert, none of whom are pleasant to deal with.

[sreservoir]

EVERY necromancer should have a portable hole full of undead. It's thoughtful, convinient, and practical. Take 'em where you want, and if someone gets mouthy, have your meat-head push 'em in the hole!

enveloping pit, you mean. you're a necromancer, LE, NE, or LN isn't a restriction, it's a safety mechanism.

[denthor]

[
QUOTE=Biffoniacus_Furiou;12078900]Ideally, use incorporeal undead. They can hide in the ground and follow you around undetected.

Your second best option is to use illusions and the Disguise skill. Dread Necromancers get Disguise as a class skill for good reason. Armor and clothing that covers them is useful, especially helms or hoods. Leprosy can be the best disguise ever. Illusions like Persistent Image can make them look like ordinary people, or plain old Invisibility could work. I wonder what Invisibility + Permanency on a corpse before animating it would do, possibly the invisibility would return 10 minutes after it attacks? The Invisible Spell metamagic feat in Cityscape could be combined with Animate Dead for some interesting effects.

Have your zombies where a cloak with a hood. Problem solved [/QUOTE]


For all variations of the two above:

How do you cover the smell of rotting flesh

perception check? DC 10 you smell something funky from that figure.

Paladin go investigate.

Kill undead arrest necromancer.

[ThiefInTheNight]

Well, Gentle Repose is a 2nd-level spell; you can get it as a Wand if you want.

[denthor]

Wrap them up in bandages and a cloak, tell people its your mute leper manservant.


Very creative now I am a touchy feelly priest of Pelor NG and hell bent on showing the world I am good. Cast cure disease... cast cure light wounds...

You evil scum you gaurds see I am good!!! :smallbiggrin:

[Hoboshank]

bags of holding are a wonderful thing. Buy 10

[Anderlith]

Robe of Bones.

[Coidzor]

Robe of Bones.

Does not work like you're suggesting it does, nor is using it as it is supposed to be used a very effective source of quick minions or decent minions, so it fails on several counts. Unfortunately. Now if you could actually store minions you created in it, well, that'd be pretty thematically sweet.

[Anderlith]

Does not work like you're suggesting it does, nor is using it as it is supposed to be used a very effective source of quick minions or decent minions, so it fails on several counts. Unfortunately. Now if you could actually store minions you created in it, well, that'd be pretty thematically sweet.

Take the concept, & make your own Robe with good undead spell stitched onto it

[deuxhero]

Why do you have an army as a PC?

Fewer more powerful undead>many weak undead.

[Anderlith]

Why do you have an army as a PC?

Fewer more powerful undead>many weak undead.

Many powerful undead > Fewer powerful undead. Armies are awesome

[Viktyr Gehrig]

How do you cover the smell of rotting flesh

Perfume. That's practically what it was invented for. Or, if you're cheap, you can dessicate the corpses by leaving them out in the desert sun for a couple weeks.

[Psyren]

Use the disguise undead spell.

Hilariously, this spell does nothing for their smell as written. Good luck with that ghast!

I'm in favor of the Portable Hole idea.

[Snowbluff]

Bluff + Disguise + Diguise Spells + Gentle Repose (so they don't smell)?

A DN or Sroc Necro should have no problem with these sort of skills.

[Coidzor]

Many powerful undead > Fewer powerful undead. Armies are awesome

Generally you can fill up your control pools of HD of undead that are controlled with about 8 at the most if you're getting the strongest things you can for animating and rebuking, 2 rebuked, generously saying 1 to your HD from the 6xHD that can be made in one casting of animate dead by a deathbound domain using cleric. And that's going to bog down the game, directing 8 minions in every combat, or 7 if you devoted one of them to transport duties. Generally, however, about 3-4 additional creatures is the realm of pushing it in standard D&D rounds.

So unless you're megamaning the humanoid bosses and sub-bosses that come your way with Animate Dread Warrior, spending a lot of downtime setting up chain command undead armadas, or just destroying the setting by causing a shadocalypse there's not really a very feasible way to get many more powerful undead and use them while having a party unless said party prefers to play things like bards that don't do much beyond play the DFI/IC shuffle. :smallconfused:

Armies are pretty much "This is where 3.X breaks down guys, don't really interact with this bit much" territory.


Take the concept, & make your own Robe with good undead spell stitched onto it

Then you should've come out and said to go down the path of custom item creation from the get go rather than providing misinformation about the capability of the robe of bones to deliver anything of interest here. :smallwink:

If he can get the DM to ok creating custom items, more power to him, but that's a road not often traveled down.

[Psyren]

Many powerful undead > Fewer powerful undead. Armies are awesome

Armies are a bad idea. The dicerolling is a real pain, they take ages to create, you clutter the battlefield, and your turn takes forever. About the only time they are useful is when you slap on the mob template.

And often, "many" and "powerful" are opposing goals - you either end up with a horde of weaklings or a couple of bruisers. The latter is almost universally preferable.

[docnessuno]

In D&D quality wins over quantity usually.
One quite funny exception are minion created with the "corpsecrafter" line of feats, from libris mortis. expecially the one causing your undeads to explode for area negative energy damage on destruction.

[Leon]

Does that even work in most systems, where about 95% of all diseases can be healed with a single spell? I'd say that this would most likely result with the guards calling the local priest to heal the manservant (not wanting to take even the smallest risk of the disease spreading). And that wouldn't be too good (both for the undead and the necro...)

your mileage may vary on how it goes. A full hooded robe works well as does encasing armour - once more mute servant/bodyguard etc, why its mute is nobodies business and if people try to pry well you have good reason to add to the collection.