Encounter Design Feedback

[Diarmuid]

I'm putting together a small one-shot adventure for my group with the DM being gone in a couple weeks and I have a couple of questions.

Invisibility - Would the spells Pyrotechnics and/or Wall of Fire break Invisibility? Specifically a Wall of Fire that is not cast so as to catch anyone directly in it, but the radiating heat could damage enemies.

The group is going to be 4 level 7 characters, no idea on the makeup yet except that one guy is making a Warmage and he's focusing on Fire damage. That being said, I had already determined the "boss" battle before I found this out and am not going to change it just because it's not going to play to his strrengths.

The boss battle is going to be an Efreet, I'm planning on 2 EL6 encounters and then the Efreet. I just dont know if I'm stacking the deck too much or planning the boss to be too tactical. The premise of the one-shot is that a mage has set up a cave of challenges for adventurers, promising power and wealth for any who can best it. The reality is the Efreet is tricking people in so he can steal their stuff and kill them.

The small dungeon is going to have an "elemental theme" to it with an Earth, Water, Air, and finally a Fire room. The last room will be the Fire room and will have some little bowls the PC's are supposed to put something from each room into.

The plan is for the Efreet to either be in the room invisible or behind a Permanent Image of a wall (that he knows is there and thusly can see through). Either way, his Spell -Like Abilities have no verbal components so the group wont know that the smoke from the fire pits or the sparks flying are due to the Efreet. In theory, he can sit there invisble or behind his illusion and throw pyrotechnics and a few wall of fires to soften the group up before he wades in and starts bashing face. I've even though to have him put up a wall of fire around the "altar" where the items have to be put facing outward so it doesnt hurt the PC's and then put another one in the same place facing in. Due to the size of the room, there wouldnt be a safe place anywhere in the room except the extreme corners which have 5' fire pits like you'd have in your backyard for him to pyrotechnics.

All the while he's using Telepathy to convince them the effects are part of the ritual just so he has enough time to get his spells all in place before dropping the hammer.

If they can capture him and not simply kill him, they could end up with wishes, but this seems pretty lethal to me and just wanted to have some others take a look and see how it rates on their power scale.

[marcielle]

By break, it would affect invisible opponenets. No miss chance, just eat the damage. However, it does NOT light them up and give away their actual location. Magical fire is not real fire. It obeys no physics or logic other than those explicitly stated in the spell description.

[Diarmuid]

I have no idea what you're trying to convey.

My question is whether using Pyrotechnics and/or Wall of Fire would end his Invisibility. Neither are directly cast at people, and Pyro (the sparks version) doesnt deal any damage.

[Kol Korran]

ok, i'll try to help as i can. two small notes before i begin:

An Efreet (CR 8) is not a serious threat to a level 7 party, unless they are quite new to the game and work badly with each other.

also, if you are letting the party know they are facing a 4 elements themed dungeon, SOMEONE will have resist fire, possibly even mass resist fire. (or protection spells). unlike the other elements- fire can mostly be used to hurt stuff. there is a great chance your party will be prepared well for the end fight, making the efreet practically impotent.

if you really want to trick them, have the party prepare to face some fire creature, and then have something totally different surprise them!, preferably something resistant to fire, and cold (which they might think of applying)



Invisibility - Would the spells Pyrotechnics and/or Wall of Fire break Invisibility? Specifically a Wall of Fire that is not cast so as to catch anyone directly in it, but the radiating heat could damage enemies.


Originally by the SRD
For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe
as long as the casting does something harmful to someone at the casting then yes, i think it breaks invisibility. pyrotechnics for sure, and fire wall if it's radiated heat hurts anyone, but not if it's a barrier that doesn't cause any damage at casting. that is at least how i'd interpret the spell.

reread the spell. i think pyrothechnics won't break the spell, but the fire wall radiating heat that harms people will.


The plan is for the Efreet to either be in the room invisible or behind a Permanent Image of a wall (that he knows is there and thusly can see through).

have it be the ceiling?


Either way, his Spell -Like Abilities have no verbal components so the group wont know that the smoke from the fire pits or the sparks flying are due to the Efreet. In theory, he can sit there invisble or behind his illusion and throw pyrotechnics and a few wall of fires to soften the group up before he wades in and starts bashing face.

All the while he's using Telepathy to convince them the effects are part of the ritual just so he has enough time to get his spells all in place before dropping the hammer. i suggest having several sections in the room, that he telepathically tries to draw them to, sperating them )"an element mucst be put in each of the bowls at the X sides of the room at the same time" and then separate them with walls of fire, before dropping in.

note however that the players (and PCs are not likely to eat it up, and most likely will not comply.


If they can capture him and not simply kill him, they could end up with wishes, but this seems pretty lethal to me and just wanted to have some others take a look and see how it rates on their power scale.

i think it could be upgraded, or as i said at the beginning- changed to something else entirely, especially if they come knowingthe 4 elements theme of the dungeon.

[marcielle]

Sorry for being uninteligible. Im just a derp sometimes.

[0nimaru]

"Boss" Encounters are my favorite designs in D&D, but there are some pitfalls involving them. The biggest is Action Economy. The Efreeti has no way to gain extra actions per round or summon monsters to the same effect. If the party can lay down any serious attacks on him, he's dead without a chance.

First, he needs a bit more HP. This is especially true if the adventuring day is looking to cap out at CR-6,CR-6,CR-8. They will have too much firepower left over if he isn't tweaked. You can give feats like Improved Toughnes, or just DM-Fiat him to max HP per HD.

Second, he needs more actions. He gets three quickened scorching rays total, a bit of a lousy full attack, and his most powerful ability is cheesy uses of shapechange. I'm probably in the minority here, but I'd say let him use firewall as a free/swift action. This would let him throw a ray, put up an obstacle, and attack/divert the party all in one round. If you feel that's too much, give the firewall creation it's own initiative so that battle is broken up a bit more.

Finally, a few feat swaps? Combat Casting, Combat Reflexes, and Dodge all seem like poor choices on him. I would personally handwave in a 3/day Searing Spell Spell-Like feat for him (Sandstorm 53, penetrates fire resist/immunity). I'm not so great at flat monster optimization, so I would check other places for advice here.

There's my advice if you like, and I'm hoping 5 ninjas don't say the same thing.

[Diarmuid]

While I appreciate the advice, at this point I've made some of the changes proposed already any some of my own as I saw fit.

What I'm more interested in is if people think throwing out pyrotechnics and walls of fire from behind a Permanent Illusion wall is too much.