Is it possible to play a villain who can fake a paladins abilities?

[Traab]

Im looking for a concept. Basically, this guy pretends to be a paladin, has methods of faking all the skills of one, but in reality, he is some horribly evil dude, just waiting for his chance to do something really bad during the storyline. Like, grab the ultimate maguffin for himself instead of destroying it, using the party to take down a rival bbeg then finishing them off while they are weak, that sort of thing. The actual class of the character isnt important, so long as his skills allow him to fake paladin well. I think it could work really well as a secret setup between me and the dm before the start of a game. So he knows what im angling for and can confirm that I was setting this up from the start, and hadnt been breaking any rules to do so.

[Medic!]

I don't remember anything paladin-like off-hand, but the Lillitu(sp?) from Fiendish Codex 1 could be used a template/starting point with her mock divinity and cleric emulation.

That being said, outside the box it's always possible to fake paladinhood using a different class like cleric. Quickened cure spells to emulate lay hands, summon monster for a mount, and personality quirks for the rest. Just because you want your character to be a an assassin doesn't mean he has to take levels in assassin.

I had an abominably stupid half-orc fighter once that any NPC would swear was a paladin!

[Traab]

Thats basically what I meant, and why I need the dm in on this, so he knows when I say, "I cast lay on hands" he knows what the actual spell is. That sort of thing.

[Medic!]

I don't play casters often, but the last few times I have I decided to bring a touch of RP to our hack-and-slash table by describing the somatics/verbals instead of declaring the spell. Made a sheet up for the DM to translate that "I cup my closed hand to my face and blow through it, a rainbow of sand blows out the other end and I cry 'Blingadin!" means I cast color spray.

Helped my evil cleric survive a little longer in a party where healing people I hated meant "Touching his forehead," casting inflict spells, then doing the surgeon face-mask drop and head-shake...I'm sorry, there was nothing more I could do =( (muahahaha)

[Grod_The_Giant]

That being said, outside the box it's always possible to fake paladinhood using a different class like cleric. Quickened cure spells to emulate lay hands, summon monster for a mount, and personality quirks for the rest.

That's probably your best bet. There's a variant in Complete Champion (I think) that lets you permanently sacrifice a spell slot for a lay on hands pool. Smiting... there's probably a spell somewhere. If not, you can ask your DM to homebrew one. Or you could take a Martial Study feat to pick up Foehammer or a similar move and call it a smite...

[Treblain]

Chameleon could do it. They can mimic smite, turn undead, and cast all paladin spells. They can use generally "good" abilities and spells without actually being good at all, and can switch back to "evil" easily.

[The-Mage-King]

Factotum/Crusader/Chameleon. Easy peasy. You get your smite from Crusader, some healing abilities, too, and then the rest from Chameleon.


Check this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201593), as well.

[satorian]

I would rule that a character with a high knowledge: religion and spellcraft would be able to tell what you were doing.

[PetterTomBos]

ISn't a spellcraft check, by RAW, what is supposed to see that you are casting CLW quickened instead of lay on hands? :)

[Cerlis]

you also need to think about OOC ways to disguise your actions.

For instance Lay on hands is a fixed amount of healing, this converts roleplay wise that the more powerful the paladin the more healing he gets, while a cleric who uses heal spells is subject to the ways of the world an the whim of his diety (he gets +on healing but still has to role dice)

If you could make it to where you could always use the average or less, instead of rolling (which i think would be fair, personally) then you'd always do a fixed amount of healing.

this is advantageous in the best route for this is a Evil cleric pretending to be a paladin, you have plenty of spells to waste on weakened versions if need be, further isnt there a divine metamagic feat for channeling spells? Channeled Smite could work.

[Killer Angel]

Staying in D&D, you can also use magic items explicitly made for paladins or good characters, and UMD them.

[Coidzor]

Well, are you ok with getting punched in the face or never being trusted by the other players as a player ever again?

Those are the risks you run by setting up a troll-campaign.

[DoctorGlock]

Cleric into ordained champion can fake alot of abilities, alternately just play one of the evil paladin variants, you should do fine with that.

[Killer Angel]

Well, are you ok with getting punched in the face or never being trusted by the other players as a player ever again?


Although the first reaction seems a little excessive to me... :smalltongue:

[Kjata]

Although the first reaction seems a little excessive to me... :smalltongue:

Seriously...

DM: After killing the villain, the princess cheers for her saviours.
Traab: I slit her throat.
Player 2: What?
Traab: Oh, I'm actually an evil cleric and was paid to kill the princess. I just faked paladinhood.
Player 2: You son of a BITCH! *crack's traab*

Yeah... I don't actually see this going down...

[The Succubus]

Helped my evil cleric survive a little longer in a party where healing people I hated meant "Touching his forehead," casting inflict spells, then doing the surgeon face-mask drop and head-shake...I'm sorry, there was nothing more I could do =( (muahahaha)

Mis-read that for a moment. I thought it said "touching with my forehead" and then had a vision of an evil cleric yelling "Inflict Light Wounds" and then headbutting someone.

[mrzomby]

Mis-read that for a moment. I thought it said "touching with my forehead" and then had a vision of an evil cleric yelling "Inflict Light Wounds" and then headbutting someone.

How do all the other evil clerics do it?

[charcoalninja]

Pathfinder has a spell that turns you into a paladin for 1 round per level. Guy could get a wand of it as its a 4th level paladin spell. Cleric version's 7th level.

So whenever he needed to paladin up he could use a command word item to cast it on him with a simple prayer and boom CHA to saves, smite evil, detect evil at will and even lay on hands.

Forget the name of the spell though.

[Traab]

Well, are you ok with getting punched in the face or never being trusted by the other players as a player ever again?

Those are the risks you run by setting up a troll-campaign.

There are ways to make it work out ok. For example, if we use the whole, "im using them to kill a rival bbeg so I can take his place" route, then after they find out im The Mole (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheMole)

That adventure ends and a new one starts where the party has to stop the now an npc former character. It was just a story planned out in advance, not a spur of the moment decision, or a random, "lol i pvp u nebs in ur slep!" type of action. Especially if the rest of the party gets to survive. A sort of, "In thanks for aiding me so well, I shall let you all live. Pray that we do not cross paths again." /cue evil laughter. Then they get a new party member to join up and they go hunting for the traitor to stop whatever his plan may be.

[Mando Knight]

ISn't a spellcraft check, by RAW, what is supposed to see that you are casting CLW quickened instead of lay on hands? :)

Yes, but that assumes you have someone else who took Spellcraft. And if the party is putting you under enough scrutiny that they're checking that you're casting the spells you said you cast, you're probably not going to get away with it for long anyway.

[Othniel Edden]

You could also play a Moral Superior Lawful Evil Character have them driven by their religious edicts and genuinely a believer in those morals, but uses them to do and justify evil things. Just confusing enough to make good characters believe that they are doing good despite doing evil.

[Coidzor]

Although the first reaction seems a little excessive to me... :smalltongue:

In the hypothetical, book-throwing DM group everyone posits, I don't think it's too out there comparatively.

[Killer Angel]

In the hypothetical, book-throwing DM group everyone posits, I don't think it's too out there comparatively.

Given that in the past (as you are well aware... :smalltongue:), Worira jokingly suggested to "bite your DM as hard as you can", you may have a point here... :smallwink:

[The Succubus]

Crossbow - 1d10 Piercing Damage.
Greatsword - 2d6 Slashing Damage
Hardback Player's Handbook wielded by an annoyed DM? You haven't got enough dice for that.