An Anti-Undead Rogue PRC?

[DaragosKitsune]

Has there been any kind of discussion on Skullclan Hunter (Miniatures Handbook, pg.21)? 'Cause it doesn't seem like a bad option for a rogue in an undead campaign. It gets sneak attack on undead, ignores all DR for any undead creature, free ghost touch, a whole bunch of immunities, and permanent protection from evil. The entry requirements aren't even that tough.

[Zaq]

It's not awful. The prereqs are a little annoying (you're pretty much assumed to dip a level into Cleric, but while that gets you K:Religion as a class skill for the purposes of max ranks, it doesn't help for all the levels it's going to be a cross-class skill, unless you burn a feat on it), but doable. It's awfully specialized, and it does give up some Roguery, but I could see it being used.

[Darrin]

Person_Man started a thread on this PrC (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56795), but I'm not sure if any definitive builds came out of it.

[Curmudgeon]

The prereqs are a little annoying (you're pretty much assumed to dip a level into Cleric, but while that gets you K:Religion as a class skill for the purposes of max ranks, it doesn't help for all the levels it's going to be a cross-class skill, unless you burn a feat on it)
I appear to be missing your point.

You take a 1-level dip into Cloistered Cleric, which gives you undead turning, Knowledge: Religion as a class skill, and (INT mod + 6) skill points at that level. Assuming you've got at least a 14 INT (and you'd be a poor skillmonkey if you didn't have a good score in the ability which determines your skills), you cover the 8 ranks requirement in the single dip, assuming you take it at level 5; you enter Skullclan Hunter at level 6. You don't need to worry about cross-class skill costs thereafter because K: R is also a class skill for the PrC. That lets you convert your Knowledge domain to Knowledge Devotion feat, and you leverage your ranks in that skill to gain bonuses both to attack and damage undead.

So where's the problem?

[TroubleBrewing]

He's at the 20, the 10, the 5, aaaaaaaand TOUCHDOWN, CURMUDGEON!

[Zaq]

Fair enough. I had, for some reason, pictured going Rogue 1/(Cloistered) Cleric 1/Rogue 2-4 instead of Rogue 4/(Cloistered) Cleric 1, probably just to get the benefit of those nice domains and/or devotion feats for as many levels as possible, which would have necessitated buying at least a few of the ranks in K: Religion cross-class. Your way works better for that purpose, definitely. I guess it depends on what level you're starting at and exactly when you want to take the Cleric level. Your method's certainly viable, no argument.

[Tar Palantir]

Also, it's not like a rogue would be horribly inconvenienced by having to buy cross-class ranks in one skill for a few levels. Even with your original thought, you'd lose what, two or three skill points?

[Zaq]

Also, it's not like a rogue would be horribly inconvenienced by having to buy cross-class ranks in one skill for a few levels. Even with your original thought, you'd lose what, two or three skill points?

Sure. Hence why I described the prereqs as "a little annoying, but doable." Not "the prereqs make the class nearly unplayable."

I mean, Rogues don't have enough skill points in any case, but if you've got a goal in mind, you can make it work.

[TroubleBrewing]

Is Rogue the best entry, here? I mean, Factotum is always kinda there...

[nedz]

Surely you just need a 2 level dip into Skullclan Hunter for Divine Strike.
Level 3 is solid though: for the +1 BAB and +1d6 sneak.
And then its back to Rogue for full sneak progression.
This costs you 1d6 sneak (for the Cleric level and the 3 Skullclan Hunter levels) overall.

[Curmudgeon]

Is Rogue the best entry, here? I mean, Factotum is always kinda there...
You need to satisfy the 2d6 sneak attack requirement, and Factotum can't do that with class abilities. Factotums don't have sneak attack; instead they have Cunning Strike. If the Factotum has spent 1 inspiration point on Cunning Strike they'll have 1d6 sneak attack temporarily. There's no stacking language in the Cunning Strike class ability, though, so by RAW that won't stack. (And even if it did, the Skullclan Hunter sneak attack PrC requirement would only be met temporarily after the IPs were spent, and you'd fail to qualify if you actually expended that temporary sneak attack.) Plus the wording of the Divine Strike class ability is problematic for temporary sneak attack ("Divine strike damage applies to any sneak attack dice the skullclan hunter already has").

The same goes for the turn undead requirement. Factotums don't have that; instead they have Opportunistic Piety. If the Factotum has spent a standard action and 1 inspiration point on Opportunistic Piety they'll have a bit of positive energy during that standard action, and one option for that energy is to turn undead. You only have that ability during the standard action, so you can't meet the Skullclan Hunter entry requirement that way.

In addition to being a better entry for Skullclan Hunter, Rogue and (Cloistered) Cleric levels can benefit from the Sacred Outlaw (Dragon # 357, page 86) multiclassing feat: stack levels for both sneak attack and your undead turn attempts.

Surely you just need a 2 level dip into Skullclan Hunter for Divine Strike.
You're overlooking some valuable stuff, like Sword of Light to overcome the damage reduction of any undead creature @ Skullclan Hunter 5. A lich has DR 15/bludgeoning and magic, for instance. But the capstone ability ─ immunity to energy drain ─ is pretty important if you're going to be fighting undead (Vampires, Wights, Spectres, ...) and not a Warforged.

[nedz]

You're overlooking some valuable stuff, like Sword of Light to overcome the damage reduction of any undead creature @ Skullclan Hunter 5. A lich has DR 15/bludgeoning and magic, for instance. But the capstone ability ─ immunity to energy drain ─ is pretty important if you're going to be fighting undead (Vampires, Wights, Spectres, ...) and not a Warforged.
I did discount the DR - its easy to overcome in other ways.
The various immunities are probably worth the loss of a few sneak dice (and other Rogue featuress) however, especially since they are general and not keyed to undead.