Aquatic Ambiance And All its Aggravations

[missmvicious]

So... I'm trying to flesh out the world I'm creating, and I'm starting to get frustrated with the aquatic regions. Let me preface:

The PCs are in a warm setting (jungle and the veldt) so I'm giving them opportunities to explore as if they were on safari. Lions, leopards, rhinos... you get the idea. In other words, for fun, I don't want every creature to be a monster. They all (especially the Druid and the Ranger) seem to really enjoy the fact that they can see mundane animals doing Nature Channel stuff.

But when flipping through the MM1, where the animals are, I can't help but get a little huffy when I discover that fish and aquatic mammals weren't really noteworthy. Sure, they've got some stuff, but most of them seem more appropriate in an oceanic or at least coastline setting. My players may experience some marshy regions, rivers, and ponds... but that's not exactly a realistic place to find a whale or manta ray. I'm getting worn out by the process, so I'm just going to modify some animals and make them medium to diminutive freshwater versions of themselves and just brush it off as "it's a magical world, roll with it" (unless you guys know where to find stats on fish and stuff *hoping*) but I'm not really good at downsizing animals. Yes, I know this sounds like lazy DM'ing, but give me a break. I pour waaaaayyyy too many hours a day into developing this campaign as it is.

So, help me, please?

Here's what I'm hoping for:
Stats on aquatic life indigenous to jungle-like regions.

Here's what I'm probably stuck with doing:
Builds, or instructions on how to build diminutive to medium whales, manta rays, octopuses... maybe sharks (I know sharks aren't indigenous to warm climates, but would make a decent chassis for many carnivorous fish, I think.)

Can anyone walk me through this? It's not enough for me to just have fish in the water as flavor text. I encourage my players to explore the region and all its details and reward them for their curiosity. There actually has to be some stats on pretty much everything I describe because there's about a 90% chance they'll attempt to poke at it and see what happens, metaphorically speaking.

[awa]

most regular fish dont have stats becuase it dosent come up their is a pinrana swarm in storm wrack but i have a low opinion of that book so i would not suggest buying it just for that

[Debihuman]

I think you need to look at more marsh environments where the water isn't so deep. Think amphibious creatures rather than simply aquatic.

WotC put out an excellent bunch of articles now archived on their site: Far Corners of the World Here is a link to Monster of the Tides: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040221a and you might also find Monsters of the Wetlands useful: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20030822a

Also you can find bog mummies See here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030331a

and leech swarm here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/bs/20040926a

In fact take a look at the other articles in this series because they may have things you can use. Some parts are hyper-linked within the articles so look around.

Most of these articles are downloadable as well. I have most of them on my hard drive for easy reference.

Have you looked at the Bog Born Template here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3961035&postcount=54n 'The only thing I would change is adding Augmented Plant instead of Plant as the subtype.

Swamps also have hazards (flammable gasses, quicksand, etc.) that the PCs could encounter.

Debby

[missmvicious]

That's pretty helpful Debihuman, and I'll add those to my encounter list.

But... I'm not looking for monsters. Just animals... well fish and stuff specifically.

I have mostly amphibians and reptiles in my aquatic encounter list, but I wouldn't mind showing them something that you'd see on the Discovery Channel or something. I guess that's not an option.

If that's the case, then how do you downsize animals in 3.5? Let's say I wanted to make a Small Baleen Whale (fluffed as a rare breed of freshwater river-whale), how would you do that? Just adjust it as if you used a reduce person spell made permanent and use those stats? Or are there special rules for that? Or better yet, is there an online tool that downsizes monsters for you?

[hamishspence]

There's quite a few shark species that cope fairly well with warm climates.

And one of these ventures a long way into freshwater- the Bull Shark.

[Keld Denar]

Just because it doesn't have stats doesn't mean it can't exist. A trout has probably 1 HP tops, and an AC of 13 (for size tiny), maybe 14 (for a Dex of 12). If you shot at one with an arrow from above the surface, you'd probably take a -2 to hit (DM's Companion modifier) because light bends in a funny way going from air to water.

Same with something like a blue heron or crane or duck, different kinds of marsh birds. If the PCs want to hunt one, they'll have an AC of like, 12-14, depending on dex, and about 1 HP. They don't have attacks or damage rolls because they aren't something that normally attacks.

Don't not include something because it doesn't have stats, just roll with it.

[Debihuman]

Reducing normal animals would work. What is the CR you are looking for? Normal fish aren't usually much of a challenge unless they are in a swarm.

You might want to check the Creature Catalogue over on EnWorld for converted creatures.

Here is one that I copied from there:

Fish, Cobra Trout
Tiny Animal (Aquatic)
Hit Dice: ½d8 (2 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 5 ft. (1 square), swim 30 ft.
Armor Class: 14 (+2 size, +2 Dex), touch 14, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/-11
Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d3-3 plus poison)
Full Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d3-3 plus poison)
Space/Reach: 2½ ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: Poison
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, water dependent
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +4, Will +1
Abilities: Str 4, Dex 15, Con 11, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2
Skills: Climb +6, Hide +10*, Listen +5, Spot +5, Swim +10
Feats: Alertness, Weapon Finesse (B)
Environment: Temperate aquatic
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 1/3
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: —
Level Adjustment: —

This slender fish is shaped like a snake or eel, and covered in bright silver scales.

Cobra trout are eel-like freshwater fish with a poisonous bite. Extremely territorial, the cobra trout lunges at any creature that comes within a few feet. Fortunately, their bright scales make them easy to spot and avoid.

Cobra trout are predatory, but only eat much smaller prey. They hunt in a similar fashion to a venomous aquatic snake. These fish can leave the water for minutes at a time, and often slither ashore to pursue land-bound prey.

A cobra trout is usually 2 to 4 feet long and weighs about a pound.

COMBAT

This narrow fish strikes like a snake, inflicting a weak bite with a potent venom.

Poison (Ex): Injury (bite), Fortitude DC 10; initial and secondary damage 1d6 Con. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Water Dependent (Ex): Cobra trout can survive out of the water for 5 minutes per point of Constitution (after that, refer to the drowning rules).

Skills: Cobra trout have a +4 racial bonus on Climb checks and use either their Strength modifier or Dexterity modifier for Climb checks, whichever is higher. A cobra trout has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. It can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line.

*Cobra trout have a +4 racial bonus on Hide checks when in clear water, due to the reflections off their silvery scales.

In the Realms
Cobra trout are primarily found in the Deeping Stream running through Deepingdale.

If you want a smaller whale, how about this. I found this creature online but have edited it a bit. Unfortunately, I don't know who first created it.

Pygmy Cachalot Whale
Small Animal
Hit Dice: 1d8+1 (5 hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: Swim 60 ft.
Armor Class: 19 (+1 size, +8 Dex) touch 19, flat-footed 11
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/-18
Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d4-2)
Full Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d4-2) and tail slap +1 melee (1d3-2)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: -
Special Qualities: Blindsight 60 ft., hold breath, low-light vision
Saves: Fort +0, Ref +0, Will +0
Abilities: Str 7, Dex 19, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 6
Skills: Hide +5, Spot +7, Listen +7, Swim +9
Feats: Alertness
Environment: Temperate aquatic
Organization: Solitary, pair, or pod (6-11)
Challenge Rating: 1
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Usually neutral
Advancement: 2-3 HD (Medium)
Level Adjustment: -

This small whale measures only 36 inches long, a pygmy of its gargantuan cousins. These whales weigh approximately 45 lbs.

Combat

Blindsight (Ex): Whales can "see" by emitting high-frequency sounds, inaudible to most other creatures, that allow them to locate objects and creatures within 60 feet. A silence spell negates this and forces the whale to rely on its vision, which is approximately as good as a human’s.

Hold Breath (Ex): A whale can hold its breath for a number of rounds equal to 8 × its Constitution score before it risks drowning.

Skills: A whale has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. It can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line. *A whale has a +4 racial bonus on Spot and Listen checks. These bonuses are lost if its blindsight is negated.

Pygmy Cachalot Whales as Animal Companion: A Pygmy Cachalot Whale may be taken as an animal companion by a druid of 1st or higher level.

Debby

[Safety Sword]

Has anyone said Crocodile (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/crocodile.htm) yet?

Oh, and they get bigger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/crocodileGiant.htm)

Crikey! She's a beauty!

RIP Steve Irwin.

[Diefje]

I don't think there's a ton of pure aquatic creatures that pose a threat in jungle waters. The territory is very small/cramped if they are limited to bogs, ponds and jungle rivers, so the aquatic animals have to be small to be able to gather enough food etc. Most big ones will be amphibious. Plus you get the bonus of not having to dig up all the underwater rules if your party is not interested in seriously exploring the depths (ok, maybe more shallows). Unless you want to go Tolkien and stat out the smell of every flower...

I'd stick with one shark-type, maybe an eel or two, and then some poisonous critters. The rest is plain fish, that flee before you get to em, or die if you manage to hit em.

The Royal Mage Biologists Society just hasn't gotten around to study those. That's how I picture it anyway.

[Savannah]

Also you can find bog mummies See here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030331a

If those are supposed to be based on bog bodies, they would be found in cold peat bogs, not a jungle marsh. Just mentioning it as it sounds like the idea is for more realistic inhabitants.

Honestly, what I'd do in this situation is find a nature show on jungles, note what the animals are and what they're doing, and then wing it. I'm assuming that the players aren't going to be attacking them, and if they do, you can nab the hp, AC, and attack bonus/damage from another animal with the CR you want.

[Slipperychicken]

Piranhas are appropriate for a Jungle environment. Not sure where their stats are in 3.5, but they're brutal IRL (in popular conception at least, they can pick a man clean in seconds).


EDIT: For a natural geographic feel, you can have a boar or something slip into the water, and detail its whimpering while it's quickly devoured. Waterborne parasites can help immersion, if the party ever decides to take a dip.

[Flickerdart]

Do be warned that the Monsters of the Tides article has the infamous That Damn Crab, which will kill and then eat your PCs on sight.

[Rising Phoenix]

There's quite a few shark species that cope fairly well with warm climates.

And one of these ventures a long way into freshwater- the Bull Shark.

Yup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njmmjVTwFzI

[kardar233]

Swamps also have hazards (flammable gasses, quicksand, etc.) that the PCs could encounter.

Well played ma'am.

On that note, might as well drop Dire Rats on your random encounter tables.

Snakes are my favourite for jungle environments. Nothing says "jungle" like 20ft of angry snake with Camouflage and a nasty Hide modifier.

[Badgerish]

Also see the "Dungeonbred" template (from: It's inside outside, aka dungeonscape), it reduces the size of monsters with some related bonuses.

[missmvicious]

Wow! Thanks for all the help!

I looked up your fish stats, Debihuman, and I think that gives me enough to make for a decent "real world" experience.

Slipperychicken, love the idea. I'm going to keep that in mind. Maybe I should research tropical, waterborne diseases. I can probably base the piranhas off of any variety of swarm vermin.

Diefhe, you laugh, but I do get Tolkeinesque with it. :smallsmile: Idk why... it's just something I've got to do. It's not enough for me to have a blurry, undefined world that is measured in distance between monster encounters. And, well, my players have gotten used to it. They try everything, because I allow for creative application in a game setting, even if it bends RAW, as long as it makes sense. Plus, I like to reward inquisitive players who are willing to deeply explore the world I've created with (what I call) the Alice in Wonderland Effect. Some things that seem mundane... a flower, water from a spring, moss from a boulder, could very well have an augmenting or damaging effect. I have mushrooms of Enlarge Person, Charm Flowers, Healing Waters (cliche I know...) and Lodestone rocks, etc... you get the point. Odds are, when they get near a significant body of water, they're going to start looking around and asking questions. Goodness knows what they'll attempt to harvest from there, too.

Badgerish, thanks for the tip! I'm on looking for it. I've found a lot of discussion about it, but I'm having troubles finding the actual book. But I can Google with the best of them... I'll find it.

And last but not least, Flickerdart... Idk much about That Damn Crab except for what I've read in the Playground, but I've heard its an OP game-killer for aggravated DMs who want something more interesting than "Rocks fall you die." Or it's a fair sized challenge for game breaking Munchkin's who abide by the philosophy, If it ain't gestalt, it ain't playable. It's a hilarious idea... and I'm curious to see what our Druid would do if he could Wild Empathy that thing into becoming his own personal Warcrab Mount. Hm... maybe later in the campaign.

You guys are all great! 1 internet for each of you.

[missmvicious]

Found Dungeonscape! Found Dungeonbred.

It implies you can't go down more than medium, but Ima do it anyway. BTW, Acidborn shark? This book is silly.

[Keld Denar]

Silly you say? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0541.html) Awesome I say! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0542.html)