Bone Knight PrC

[umbergod]

gonna make a character for a friend's campaign. starting at level one. I dont want to be a primary caster, as my group contains both a cleric and a dread necro. Mostly wanna focus on fighting, possibly ranged. Would ranger3/cleric2 or fighter3/cleric2 be the better way of qualifying for this PrC? I don't want to play a paladin, since i usually end up playing lawful stupid (have no experience playing a good guy yet, let alone one with rules and guidelines like a paladin)

my plans is to use my casting to buff myself and the party, or heal myself after combat. I dont want to focus on the undead creating portion either, as this is the dread necro's first game and i dont want to overshadow anything he is made for.

any suggestions? this is far from being an optimized/min-max game, so im not going to 100% optimization at all. starting level is 1, flaws are allowed and I will probably play a lesser aasimar for the sexy charisma and wisdom bonuses

[vhfforever]

Never take Fighter 3. Fighter 2/Cleric 3 would be better, as when you make you armor you'll generally lose access to your Combat Style as a Ranger.

[umbergod]

Never take Fighter 3. Fighter 2/Cleric 3 would be better, as when you make you armor you'll generally lose access to your Combat Style as a Ranger.

oh wow, totally spaced that fighter 3 was a dead level for feats. hmmm, fighter 2/cleric 3 it is then. Since the campaign is starting at first level, would it be better to start as a fighter, for the 10 hp, or a cleric, for the spells? its a PbP game, so we will be using average hp per hd after level one rule.

[GoatBoy]

Bone knights are considered ex-paladins, but they keep most of the good paladin abilities, so you could start with paladin 2 and keep divine grace without the alignment restraints. You'd have to keep the Immovable Rod up your butt until you qualified for the class, though.

A ranged bone knight could work, but seems like kind of a waste since the best features of the bone knight are defensive; it's a class designed to take hits, not stand back. You'd have to stick to light armour for the ranger combat style, too.

You could try Duskblase3/Cleric 2, since arcane channeling works with any spell you know, arcane or divine.

2 levels of hexblade will get you arcane resistance, which is like an arcane-only divine grace. 3 levels will get you mettle, which is awesome.

Then there's Tome of Battle...

[MesiDoomstalker]

Bone knights are considered ex-paladins, but they keep most of the good paladin abilities, so you could start with paladin 2 and keep divine grace without the alignment restraints. You'd have to keep the Immovable Rod up your butt until you qualified for the class, though.

A ranged bone knight could work, but seems like kind of a waste since the best features of the bone knight are defensive; it's a class designed to take hits, not stand back. You'd have to stick to light armour for the ranger combat style, too.

You could try Duskblase3/Cleric 2, since arcane channeling works with any spell you know, arcane or divine.

2 levels of hexblade will get you arcane resistance, which is like an arcane-only divine grace. 3 levels will get you mettle, which is awesome.

Then there's Tome of Battle...

Minor nitpick, Arcane Resiliency doesn't discriminate between arcane and divine, just Spells and SLA's vs. anything else. It provides its bonus to spells and SLA's. So you don't get it against supernatural effects which I'd say is a fairly potent draw back with a clever DM.

You really can't go wrong with ToB...excpet if your trying to make a ranged charcter. :smallmad:

[umbergod]

I was thinking about paladin, but im so bad at playing one >.> unless i made one of the variant paladins in the UA, i could manage a tyranny or slaughter paladin.

I'm not even sure I want to pursue this line of character anymore since even if i dont focus on it, i will be stepping on the party's dread necro's toes with my ability to create and control undead. Its his first dnd adventure ever, and i dont want to infringe on any of his roles (which is why the dm banned me from making a necromancer spec wizard, even though i intended for a debuff and drain style rather than any kind of minion control)

if the party ends up leaning more towards evil, I may make a vile generalist wizard, or perhaps an artificer, since he would be a perfect addition. So far the party has a human dread necro, a shifter scout, a raptoran cleric, and a dorf barbarian.

[JaronK]

Personally I'm a fan of entering via Ur Priest, as being a nihlistic undead raising cleric of nothing just feels right. Also, it's a lot stronger.

Also consider using Paladin of Tyranny to enter so you get some nice save reduction and don't have to fall as a Paladin.

JaronK

[umbergod]

Personally I'm a fan of entering via Ur Priest, as being a nihlistic undead raising cleric of nothing just feels right. Also, it's a lot stronger.

Also consider using Paladin of Tyranny to enter so you get some nice save reduction and don't have to fall as a Paladin.

JaronK

I was considering the ur priest route, but i would overshadow both the cleric and the dread necro in one fell swoop going that route XD, the PoT would be a good route, what with not having super crazy casting abilities to begin with, so i wouldnt ever impose on either of the casters. I shall consider that build

[JaronK]

If you want to support the other two casters and also keep up with them, then consider Unseelie Fey Human Hexblade 4 (Dark Companion Substitution)/Paladin of Tyranny 4/Factotum 1/Ur Priest 1/Bone Knight 10. Factotum is there for the hard to meet skill requirements of the PrCs, really. If you focus on Charisma, you'll be providing a 4+Cha mod penalty to enemy saves, and while you will have casting your CL will be much lower. Just focus on self buffs and group buffs with your casting, while your primary trick will be running into melee and debuffing everyone so the casters can kill everything.

JaronK

[umbergod]

not a bad idea. If my dm approves it i may go that route. I am writing up a plain ole PoT aasimar right now. Though if I get the go ahead I may make a fey'ri sorcerer, always been fond of that particular planetouched

[vhfforever]

Ftr 1 / Clr 4 (Elf and Planning Domains, if you're allowed)

Just stay ranged, abuse your single-attribute dependency, and enjoy the game while casting spells and keeping things simple.

[Elric VIII]

Man, I love this PrC. I am currently playing an unkillable master of life and death with the other players as my puppets (Delay Death is so cool).

For a non-caster approach I suggest Cleric 4/Ordained Champion 1, rather than Fighter. You can trade away your domain abilities for Fighter feats anyway. The benefit to this strategy is that you get a bonus domain and you can cast from War spontaneously. Add Holy Warrior reserve feat and you will be adding damage based on your highest available spell.

Just remember, the beauty of a Cleric is that if you don't want to be a primary caster you can just use all of slots on all-day buffs. You can basically spend 10 min buffing at the beginning of the day and play as a 3/4 BAB melee dude with huge numbers and an obnoxious halo of alignment. :smallbiggrin:

[umbergod]

Man, I love this PrC. I am currently playing an unkillable master of life and death with the other players as my puppets (Delay Death is so cool).

For a non-caster approach I suggest Cleric 4/Ordained Champion 1, rather than Fighter. You can trade away your domain abilities for Fighter feats anyway. The benefit to this strategy is that you get a bonus domain and you can cast from War spontaneously. Add Holy Warrior reserve feat and you will be adding damage based on your highest available spell.

Just remember, the beauty of a Cleric is that if you don't want to be a primary caster you can just use all of slots on all-day buffs. You can basically spend 10 min buffing at the beginning of the day and play as a 3/4 BAB melee dude with huge numbers and an obnoxious halo of alignment. :smallbiggrin:

you good sir, are my hero :)

[Elric VIII]

you good sir, are my hero :)

I do what I can. Also, consider using the Bone Bow (Frostburn) if you want archery. It adjusts to your Str score, so you get maximum benefit from things like Divine Power.

Also, Knowledge Devotion + Divine Insight adds some puch to your weapon. It all stacks with Holy Warrior.

[umbergod]

I do what I can. Also, consider using the Bone Bow (Frostburn) if you want archery. It adjusts to your Str score, so you get maximum benefit from things like Divine Power.

Also, Knowledge Devotion + Divine Insight adds some puch to your weapon. It all stacks with Holy Warrior.

well, we are using a point buy system, so i dont wanna spread myself too thin. going lesser aasimar cleric of hextor. hate having to put a 14 in int, but its the only way i can cover all the skill points i need to get into bone knight >.<

[Elric VIII]

well, we are using a point buy system, so i dont wanna spread myself too thin. going lesser aasimar cleric of hextor. hate having to put a 14 in int, but its the only way i can cover all the skill points i need to get into bone knight >.<

I am currently playing a Bone Knight and have the same problem. but Righteous Might and Divine Power pump up your Str, so it's good to not need to waste that.

I had 2 possible builds, although I had not considered Ordained Champion at the time I started playing this character:

Human Paragon 1/Cleric 2/Human Paragon +2/Cleric +2/ Bone Knight 10/Contemplative 2. This is the build I went with, since I made Intimidate a permanent class skill and I have a slight fear build sub-theme. Imperious Command is quite a feat.


Cleric 4/Fighter 1/Bone Knight 10/Contemplative 5. For Fighter I used the Horseman variant from Dragon Magazine 10 that allows you to make turns during a charge. You give up your bonus feat for the ability to make 1 turn of up to 90 degrees per point of dex bonus of your mount.


What is your PB, maybe I can give some advice.

[umbergod]

32 point buy, was using the stat spread of 16,14,14,14,12,8. gonna go for full plate and a greatsword eventually

[Elric VIII]

32 point buy, was using the stat spread of 16,14,14,14,12,8. gonna go for full plate and a greatsword eventually

Then why do you have a 14 in dex?

[umbergod]

Then why do you have a 14 in dex?

16 str, 12 dex, 14 con, 14 int 14 wis and 8 cha. with racial mods that puts my wis to 16 and cha to 10

[Elric VIII]

16 str, 12 dex, 14 con, 14 int 14 wis and 8 cha. with racial mods that puts my wis to 16 and cha to 10

That's reasonable, but I would suggest subtracting 4 from Dex and adding 2 to Con. If you're going to be in melee, you need to be able to take a hit.

Also, invest in an Iron Ward Diamond armor crystal, it gives you DR/- for 1, 2, or 5 for a value of up to 10, 30, or 50 damage per day. These are nice and cheap, so if you expect to get hit a lot, a second one is easy enough to switch out.

What feats were you considering?

[umbergod]

That's reasonable, but I would suggest subtracting 4 from Dex and adding 2 to Con. If you're going to be in melee, you need to be able to take a hit.

Also, invest in an Iron Ward Diamond armor crystal, it gives you DR/- for 1, 2, or 5 for a value of up to 10, 30, or 50 damage per day. These are nice and cheap, so if you expect to get hit a lot, a second one is easy enough to switch out.

What feats were you considering?

8 in dex? wouldnt a 12 be best with full plate? so i dont get a penalty to my AC

[MesiDoomstalker]

8 in dex? wouldnt a 12 be best with full plate? so i dont get a penalty to my AC

AC is crude. Don't give a piece about it. Seriously. Just don't.

[umbergod]

AC is crude. Don't give a piece about it. Seriously. Just don't.

is it really that bad? cuz going from 12 to 8 is essentially a 2 point hit to my AC, which is kinda no good at 1st level, what with the not having a boatload of hp and all >.>

[Elric VIII]

8 in dex? wouldnt a 12 be best with full plate? so i dont get a penalty to my AC

Yes, but that's the easiest to eventually but in item form. 2 AC is hardly going to make a difference unless you are willing to go all the way.

It still barely matters. I recommend Mechanus Gear, it has +10 AC and +0 Max Dex. It only costs 250 more than Full Plate. The downside is that it reduces your speed to 15ft. However, you barely notice, since you have a skeletal mount to do your moving for you.

Just in case you are wondering, my character had an AC of roughly 53 at level 12. I use Magic Vestment, GMW, and defending armor/weapon/shield spikes, along with a Bead of Karma. I chose to go the AC optimization route witht his character after I one shot some encounters, in order to power down a bit.


+14 (+4 Mechanus Gear)
+9 (+4 Animated Tower Shield)
+12 (3x defending +4 Armor/Weapon/Shield Spikes)
+2 (Belt of Priestly Might)
+1 (Ioun Stone)
+2 Ring of Protection


That's 40, plus the base 10, -1 Dex, +4 when using the Ride skill to gain cover. 49-53 AC. I'm level 19 now and have 14 more, mostly from items (finally got a +2 Dex item) and the Visions of the Future spell.

And this is light, compared to some of the AC op you can get.

[umbergod]

well then :P i will try out that route. Going to be a cleric of hextor so i can qualify for Ordained Champion, since my DM doesnt wanna remove the worship a specific god for that PrC.

What would be some good long lasting buff spells to prepare on a regular basis so I am less of a caster and more of a melee beast?

[Dusk Eclipse]

While AC does becomes worthless (at higher levels) Dex covers a lot of important stuff including Initiative, so I suggest against dumping it.

As for armour, since this game is starting at level 1 I am pretty sure the OP won't be able to buy a mechanus gear from the start, actually I think he won't be able to even get full plate.

[umbergod]

While AC does becomes worthless (at higher levels) Dex covers a lot of important stuff including Initiative, so I suggest against dumping it.

As for armour, since this game is starting at level 1 I am pretty sure the OP won't be able to buy a mechanus gear from the start, actually I think he won't be able to even get full plate.

yeah, lookin like scale mail and a heavy steel shield are my best options

[MesiDoomstalker]

Yes, at level 1, AC does matter. And at level 1, a Cleric is a back up front-liner and is really there to whack 1/2 CR orcs with the fighter or flank with the Rogue. Then spend his one or two spells to heal them.

[umbergod]

yeah, we dont have a fighter or a rogue. we have a scout and a barbarian XD

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Paladin 4/ Bone Knight 4/ Divine Crusader 1/ Bone Knight 6/ Divine Crusader and/or divine casting prestige classes 5. Use one of the Paladin variants (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinVariantsFreedom SlaughterAndTyranny) if you don't want to start out LG. You can even take the Harmonious Knight substitution (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) for a +1 Inspire Courage, and pick up a Badge of Valor fairly early to increase it to +2. I would highly recommend the Wrath domain for Divine Crusader, and probably pick up Contemplative and various other domain-granting prestige classes to expand your spell list.

[umbergod]

Paladin 4/ Bone Knight 4/ Divine Crusader 1/ Bone Knight 6/ Divine Crusader and/or divine casting prestige classes 5. Use one of the Paladin variants (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinVariantsFreedom SlaughterAndTyranny) if you don't want to start out LG. You can even take the Harmonious Knight substitution (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) for a +1 Inspire Courage, and pick up a Badge of Valor fairly early to increase it to +2. I would highly recommend the Wrath domain for Divine Crusader, and probably pick up Contemplative and various other domain-granting prestige classes to expand your spell list.

problem with not being a LG paladin is that the 2 that fit for me are Tyranny or Slaughter, and I am going to be in positions where I commit acts of good, which would cause me to lose my paladin abilities. So I think my best odds are being a LN or LE Cleric of Hextor. go Cleric 4/Ordained Champion 1/Bone Knight 10/ and not sure on those last 5 levels yet, maybe add some more Ordained Champion for that channeled weapon ability

EDIT: could i drop my wisdom down to 12(14 with racials) and just use my ability boosts to keep my wisdom up enough to cast my spells, and make my dex a 10?

[MesiDoomstalker]

problem with not being a LG paladin is that the 2 that fit for me are Tyranny or Slaughter, and I am going to be in positions where I commit acts of good, which would cause me to lose my paladin abilities. So I think my best odds are being a LN or LE Cleric of Hextor. go Cleric 4/Ordained Champion 1/Bone Knight 10/ and not sure on those last 5 levels yet, maybe add some more Ordained Champion for that channeled weapon ability

EDIT: could i drop my wisdom down to 12(14 with racials) and just use my ability boosts to keep my wisdom up enough to cast my spells, and make my dex a 10?

No! Never drop your primary stat for a tertiary stat. Ever. For Charisma or Constituition maybe. Dexterity? No way.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Paladin of Tyranny could actually work out, provided the adventure of helping others also coincides with his own personal goals, and he could just refuse to have a hand in any individual good acts that the rest of the party does. Once you take Bone Knight you can just throw your code of conduct out the window anyway.


Dragon magazine 310 has LN, NN, and CN Paladin variants, but the NN version rebukes elementals, an the CN version rebukes constructs.

The Enforcer (LN) gets a good Will save instead of Fort, with Detect/Smite Chaos, Subdue (bonuses dealing nonlethal damage) instead of Lay on Hands, Suggestion 1/day instead of Divine Health, and Rebukes/Commands Undead. He can't commit any chaotic acts or knowingly associate with a chaotic aligned individual, and he must uphold and enforce the laws of the land at all times.

[umbergod]

Paladin of Tyranny could actually work out, provided the adventure of helping others also coincides with his own personal goals, and he could just refuse to have a hand in any individual good acts that the rest of the party does. Once you take Bone Knight you can just throw your code of conduct out the window anyway.


Dragon magazine 310 has LN, NN, and CN Paladin variants, but the NN version rebukes elementals, an the CN version rebukes constructs.

The Enforcer (LN) gets a good Will save instead of Fort, with Detect/Smite Chaos, Subdue (bonuses dealing nonlethal damage) instead of Lay on Hands, Suggestion 1/day instead of Divine Health, and Rebukes/Commands Undead. He can't commit any chaotic acts or knowingly associate with a chaotic aligned individual, and he must uphold and enforce the laws of the land at all times.

I think I saw those other variants, and the LN one doesnt get ride, which is one of the only reasons for being a paladin or variant of. I think overall it will be easier on me to roleplay a cleric than a paladin >.>

[Elric VIII]

problem with not being a LG paladin is that the 2 that fit for me are Tyranny or Slaughter, and I am going to be in positions where I commit acts of good, which would cause me to lose my paladin abilities. So I think my best odds are being a LN or LE Cleric of Hextor. go Cleric 4/Ordained Champion 1/Bone Knight 10/ and not sure on those last 5 levels yet, maybe add some more Ordained Champion for that channeled weapon ability

EDIT: could i drop my wisdom down to 12(14 with racials) and just use my ability boosts to keep my wisdom up enough to cast my spells, and make my dex a 10?

Yeah, that's perfectly doable. The only reason my incarnation has a Wis of 14 is that with stat boosts, Human Paragon boost, and a +2 inherent bonus it gets me to just high enough to grab an extra 9th level spell.

In case you were wondering, my stats for a 32pt-buy are 16, 8, 12, 14, 14, 14 (in that order). But, your battle plan is slightly different than mine (I'm a primary buffer, secondary melee), so 12 would work just fine. Remember to get Extend and Persist (works fine even without DMM).


Greater/Superior Resistance are great spells.
GMW, MV are good to have, too.
I really like Sign, cast before combat (+4 init, plus I have the Time domain for another +4).
Divine Insight is great because the spell lasts hours/level until you discharge.
Augery + Energy Immunity means always having some extra defense,
Crown of Might is nice, since you can forestall buying a +Str item (hr/level duration).



No! Never drop your primary stat for a tertiary stat. Ever. For Charisma or Constituition maybe. Dexterity? No way.

If he's doing what I think he is, then he won't really be forcing saves, so the only thing he will lose is a few spells per day. Since he's not a primary caster, this is bearable.

[umbergod]

Yeah, that's perfectly doable. The only reason my incarnation has a Wis of 14 is that with stat boosts, Human Paragon boost, and a +2 inherent bonus it gets me to just high enough to grab an extra 9th level spell.

In case you were wondering, my stats for a 32pt-buy are 16, 8, 12, 14, 14, 14 (in that order). But, your battle plan is slightly different than mine (I'm a primary buffer, secondary melee), so 12 would work just fine. Remember to get Extend and Persist (works fine even without DMM).


Greater/Superior Resistance are great spells.
GMW, MV are good to have, too.
I really like Sign, cast before combat (+4 init, plus I have the Time domain for another +4).
Divine Insight is great because the spell lasts hours/level until you discharge.
Augery + Energy Immunity means always having some extra defense,
Crown of Might is nice, since you can forestall buying a +Str item (hr/level duration).




If he's doing what I think he is, then he won't really be forcing saves, so the only thing he will lose is a few spells per day. Since he's not a primary caster, this is bearable.

yeah, focusing on saving a highest castable spell slot for Holy Warrior, then using any other slots for either long lasting buffs, or after combat healing. So if I can I will get my hands on the Mechanus Gear, otherwise I will just use full plate. Also, seeing as how I worship Hextor, is there a 2handed flail that I could make use of, to take advantage of the free feats from the war domain?

[MesiDoomstalker]

yeah, focusing on saving a highest castable spell slot for Holy Warrior, then using any other slots for either long lasting buffs, or after combat healing. So if I can I will get my hands on the Mechanus Gear, otherwise I will just use full plate. Also, seeing as how I worship Hextor, is there a 2handed flail that I could make use of, to take advantage of the free feats from the war domain?

I'm pretty sure a Dire Flail is 2-handed.

[umbergod]

is the dire flail the double weapon? I'm thinking more along the lines of like a Great Flail or something. Eh, I will talk to my DM about it

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I think I saw those other variants, and the LN one doesnt get ride, which is one of the only reasons for being a paladin or variant of. I think overall it will be easier on me to roleplay a cleric than a paladin >.>

You're right, it doesn't get Ride... Just Paladin of Tyranny would work, and you won't have to worry about the code of conduct once you get Bone Knight.


Regarding the Cleric 4/ Ordained Champion 1 entry, you could actually do it with Int 12 (three skill points/level):
Cleric 1: Craft (armorsmithing) 4, Kn: Religion 4, Ride 1, Concentration 2
Cleric 2: Craft (armorsmithing) 5, Kn: Religion 5, Ride 1.5
Cleric 3: Craft (armorsmithing) 6, Kn: Religion 6, Ride 2
Cleric 4: Kn: Religion 7, Ride 3
Ordained Champion 1: Ride 6

You can start with Chainmail or Breastplate that you crafted yourself for 1/3 cost by taking ten on all the craft checks. With a masterwork tool (50 gp) you can start with Half-Plate, Splint Mail, or Banded Mail at 1/3 cost by taking ten. Be sure to also get your shield for 1/3 price, every bit helps.

[MesiDoomstalker]

is the dire flail the double weapon? I'm thinking more along the lines of like a Great Flail or something. Eh, I will talk to my DM about it

Yes, my mistake. Heavy Flail (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#flailorHeavyFlail)is what your looking for.

[umbergod]

You're right, it doesn't get Ride... Just Paladin of Tyranny would work, and you won't have to worry about the code of conduct once you get Bone Knight.


Regarding the Cleric 4/ Ordained Champion 1 entry, you could actually do it with Int 12 (three skill points/level):
Cleric 1: Craft (armorsmithing) 4, Kn: Religion 4, Ride 2
Cleric 2: Craft (armorsmithing) 5, Kn: Religion 5, Concentration 1
Cleric 3: Craft (armorsmithing) 6, Kn: Religion 6, Ride 2.5
Cleric 4: Kn: Religion 7, Concentration 2, Ride 3
Ordained Champion 1: Ride 6

You can start with Chainmail or Breastplate that you crafted yourself for 1/3 cost by taking ten on all the craft checks. With a masterwork tool (50 gp) you can start with Half-Plate, Splint Mail, or Banded Mail at 1/3 cost by taking ten. Be sure to also get your shield for 1/3 price, every bit helps.

I will have to try run that past my dm, int of 12 might work, but I was gonna try get some weaponsmithing ranks to make a bone weapon

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I will have to try run that past my dm, int of 12 might work, but I was gonna try get some weaponsmithing ranks to make a bone weapon

Call me crazy, but.....

You could totally use Druid to qualify for Bone Knight, and wearing bone armor is a completely legit practice for a druid. Bone Talisman (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20040721a) (turning) can qualify you for the Turn Undead prerequisite (put Unguent of Timelessness on the spell foci, it lasts 365 times longer, and they can be reused indefinitely). You'll need to spend a feat on Education (ECS) or Apprentice (DMG2, philosopher or spellcaster) or Knowledge Devotion (CC) to get the Kn: Religion ranks, or multiclass for BAB into something that gets it. Bone Talisman can also get you your bone weapon, which you can cast Shillelagh on as well if it's a club. Shillelagh on a weapon with Unguent of Timelessness lasts six hours per caster level. I'd go Druidic Avenger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druidVariantDruidicAve nger) and pick up Extra Rage at 1st level.

[umbergod]

Yes, my mistake. Heavy Flail (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#flailorHeavyFlail)is what your looking for.

double post, but wow, thats in the player's handbook XD i can't believe i missed that

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Rebuke Undead (Su): At 1st level, you gain the
ability to rebuke undead as a cleric of your bone knight
level. If you already had the ability to turn or rebuke
undead, you add your previous effective cleric level
to your bone knight level to determine your effective
cleric level for rebuking undead now. You can no
longer turn undead once you gain this ability.

So... if a Druid has a Bone Talisman (turning) ready to use, he can Turn Undead as a Cleric of his caster level, but he can't activate it due to Bone Knight. He can Rebuke Undead 3+Cha mod/day from Bone Knight, and adds his caster level to his Bone Knight level for his effective Cleric level?! Or, just pick up Extend/Persist and DMM: Persist, and use your Bone Knight Rebukes to power Persistent Bite of the Werecreature.

[umbergod]

what would be some good starter feats for this melee self buff build? I am allowed to take flaws, and so far I took Shaky to cover snagging Improved Initiative, but beyond that I'm drawing a blank >.>

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Extend, Persist, DMM: Persist, and Extra Turning. If you don't have enough feats, try to use the Planning or Undeath domain to get one of those.

[umbergod]

Extend, Persist, DMM: Persist, and Extra Turning. If you don't have enough feats, try to use the Planning or Undeath domain to get one of those.

gonna be swapping out my domain granted abilities when i take my first level of Ordained Champion. That, and I worship Hextor. But thanks for the starter list :)

[Coidzor]

So... if a Druid has a Bone Talisman (turning) ready to use, he can Turn Undead as a Cleric of his caster level, but he can't activate it due to Bone Knight. He can Rebuke Undead 3+Cha mod/day from Bone Knight, and adds his caster level to his Bone Knight level for his effective Cleric level?! Or, just pick up Extend/Persist and DMM: Persist, and use your Bone Knight Rebukes to power Persistent Bite of the Werecreature.

...Combine with CL increasing cheese and I think you may have stumbled onto something other than spawn daisy-chains and giving undead negative levels with holy arrows(?) for breaking rebuking. :smallconfused:

As for the Druidic Avenger bit, make sure to grab the Whirling Frenzy variant of rage, since that'll never really get old, compared to regular rage with no advancement.

[Elric VIII]

gonna be swapping out my domain granted abilities when i take my first level of Ordained Champion. That, and I worship Hextor. But thanks for the starter list :)

Just remember, if Hextor doesn't match what you're going for, the adaptations section says that OC can be easily changed to fit any diety with the War domain. You might run that by your DM.

[umbergod]

went with improved initiative, extend spell, and extra turning for my 1st level feats, gonna snag persistent spell at 3rd, and DMM at 6th