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View Full Version : [Pathfinder] How do Artificers work?


Trekkin
2011-10-25, 01:29 PM
I was reading through the pf SRD and came across the Artificer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/adamant-entertainment/artificer), which looks great, and perfect for a character I might be playing next semester. That said...

What's the deal with weird science devices? It gives a progression on the class table, then says "any number of spells can be combined into a single device". It also doesn't give a time at which the artificer gains access to each spell level, or a gp cost or anything. What does that table mean, and what are the limits on weird science devices? Is there any limit to the number that can be made, other than time?
ThatLovin'Elan
2011-10-25, 01:44 PM
It's a miserable third party class. Play an Alchemist.
ThatLovin'Elan
2011-10-25, 01:45 PM
I would just like to add that there is brilliant third party material for Pathfinder - most of it in Psionics Unleashed (which is up on the srd) and the upcoming Psionics Expanded. This class doesn't make sense and doesn't live up to the Pathfinder class design mechanics.
Mockingbird
2011-10-25, 01:52 PM
This does look like a fun class to play, but it's confusing and most people are saying it's a miserable 3rd party class. :P
Trekkin
2011-10-25, 01:57 PM
Why is it so miserable?
Mockingbird
2011-10-25, 02:07 PM
It's unfocused. I can't tell if it's supposed to be a skill monkey, a fighter, a mage, or a crafting character. It takes too long to make a weird science invention, because usually the party doesn't have 4 to 12 hours to wait while you make your items for the day. Plus, if you only can have a couple at a time, it takes 4 hours at minimum to make it, and it doesn't have very many charges, what's the use?
Mockingbird
2011-10-25, 02:09 PM
doesn't give a time at which the artificer gains access to each spell level, or a gp cost or anything.

Under weird science inventions, there's a table with four columns under it. 1 is first level spells, 2 is second level, 3 is third, 4 is fourth.
ThatLovin'Elan
2011-10-25, 02:11 PM
Why is it so miserable?

Well, just from a design standpoint, it has an odd number of skill points a level (unlike every officially published 3.5/PF class ever) and its d6 HP does not match its 3/4 BAB (in Pathfinder, your BAB is determined by HD: d12/d10= Full BAB; d8= 3/4 BAB; d6=1/2 BAB). These aren't anything unbalanced, per se, but it does set off warning signals that the designer doesn't know what they're doing.

The big thing is that they only get up to 4th level spells. When your main class feature is the first class feature to be traded away on a lot of Ranger builds, there's something wrong. They require skill checks to use their spells (didn't work out well on the Truenamer, ask Zaq).

They've got a bizarre problem with their capstone, too: Exemplar (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/adamant-entertainment/artificer#TOC-Exemplar).


The artificer's Jack of All Trades ability reaches its zenith: The artificer may now add half his class level to all untrained skill checks.

Ok, so he gets a +10 on all untrained skill checks.

Then why does he get Improved Jack of All Trades (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/adamant-entertainment/artificer#TOC-Improved-Jack-of-All-Trades)?

Let's say he wants to use Acrobatics. We'll say he has a Dex of 10 to make it easy. If he has no ranks in it at level 20, he gets a +10 on the check. If he has one rank in it at level 20, he gets a +4 on the check. Investing anything under 8 ranks in any one skill is completely useless to him once he hits 20. (Edit: And what's worse is that putting anything under 7 ranks is actually harmful to him).

He gets tons of item creation feats, which are extremely campaign dependent; if you have time to craft, these will break the WBL for the whole party. If you don't, they're all worthless.

Oh, and Alignment: Any neutral. Like a Druid. ...what? No Lawful Evil mad scientist? No Chaotic Good glee-filled gnome inventor?

Terrible, terrible class.
ThatLovin'Elan
2011-10-25, 02:13 PM
It's unfocused. I can't tell if it's supposed to be a skill monkey, a fighter, a mage, or a crafting character. It takes too long to make a weird science invention, because usually the party doesn't have 4 to 12 hours to wait while you make your items for the day. Plus, if you only can have a couple at a time, it takes 4 hours at minimum to make it, and it doesn't have very many charges, what's the use?

Oh, yeah, forgot about the time it takes to make the weird science inventions. Pelor above, this class is poorly thought out. Interesting concept, but execution needs serious work.
Jeraa
2011-10-25, 02:17 PM
This does look like a fun class to play, but it's confusing and most people are saying it's a miserable 3rd party class. :P

I don't know how good it is, but it certainly is a 3rd party product. That PRD site also adds in 3rd party Pathfinder-compatible material. The actual PRD (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/) site only has Paizo material.
ThatLovin'Elan
2011-10-25, 02:20 PM
I don't know how good it is, but it certainly is a 3rd party product. That PRD site also adds in 3rd party Pathfinder-compatible material. The actual PRD (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/) site only has Paizo material.

The big advantage http://www.d20pfsrd.com/ has over the official site is the inclusion of Psionics Unleashed; if your DM doesn't allow them, you're better off using the official Paizo one.