Charisma Focused Build Advice

[JKTrickster]

I think I'll approach this problem with a different spin.

Right now I'm using some homebrew classes for an epic game. They focus mainly on Charisma and Luck feats but I still have extra room in gold/feats/class levels so I was looking for suggestions of what I could add.

I"m just looking for small dips that I can add for a Charisma and Luck Feat focused build. Also any useful supplementary feats and equipment.

Also what equipment do you feel is absolutely necessary for a Anti-Mage character?

Thanks for any help that you can give!

Hi I'm trying to build an Epic Character for an upcoming game. I don't have a lot of experience building epic characters and I'm trying to write out the character for now. So I would really appreciate any help I can get!

I'm building a Romancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120534)//Fortune-Blessed (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194346)//Luck Child (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140686) to represent sheer luck and faith to win the day.

I want to build him as a tank and anti-mage character. Now here's how:

I want to utilize the Goad line of feats (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209661) from here to tank (relying on my natural ability to survive against anything that attacks me) while using the Romancer's abilities to shut down enemy spellcasters (Will Power, etc.).

However I don't know what to choose for equipment to help make sure I can close in on spellcasters, that I have the proper ability to fight, etc. I am pretty sure that I want to do TWF (with a proper TWF fix) to take advantage of the fact that Romancer's Fool's Swords technique automatically work on critical hits.

At the same time Romancer doesn't have an epic progression so I don't know what to take for the levels after Romancer as well.

Furthermore, I don't know how feasible my build is and I'm open to all sorts of suggestions (even homebrew)! I just believe that it is synergistic and it should survive and get a job well done.

He will probably be a Human and his starting abilities will most likely be... (pre Stat additions)

Str: 13
Dex: 13
Con: 15
Int: 8
Wis: 6
Cha: 20

or if it is Pathfinder

Str: 13
Dex: 13
Con: 18
Int: 10
Wis: 8
Cha: 22

Again any help will be appreciated! I will post up a list of possible feats soon, and hopefully this character comes out alright! Even if you don't know of any advice, feel free to comment on the wackiness that is my character!

[hex0]

Not familiar with these homebrew, but you could check out the other luck based PRCs like Auspicion, Fortune's Friend, and Luck Stealer.

[JKTrickster]

I'm sorry but where is Auspicion from? :smallconfused:

EDIT:

Also does anyone know of any ways to jack up Charisma as high as possible?

And are there ways to get items with alternative (non-enhancement) bonuses to Cha?

[JKTrickster]

Just going to bump this since I changed the parameters of my request.

Anyone who is interested can still find my old OP in the spoiler but I've decided to look for more general information on Cha-focused builds and useful equipment at Epic levels.

E.g. is it worth it to buy an Epic Cloak of Charisma?

[Glimbur]

E.g. is it worth it to buy an Epic Cloak of Charisma?

Short answer? Doubtful. Epic equipment costs 10x as much as pre-Epic gear for marginally improved benefits. You are better off sticking with a +6 Cha item and buying consumables, wondrous items, and other sweet gear.

Mage slaying... you'll want pearls of power and metamagic rods so you can be a better spellcaster. If you want to slay mages without being a spellcaster things are much trickier. Figure out a safe way to carry Rods of Cancellation, for one. Dust of Disappearance might or might not let you be detected via normal means for seeing invisible. An intelligent item which can cast spells is like having extra actions: stick to things without saves especially buffs. A belt of battle is also good because extra actions. You want to do enough damage to reliably kill a mage in a full attack, but you also need to be able to land that full attack. Ranged attacks are sometimes easier, but they have their own problems in Epic.

[Andion Isurand]

There's the magic-blooded template in Dragon 306 which gives you -2 wisdom and +2 charisma (among other things) for a +0 LA

Also: X stat to Y bonus
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732

[JKTrickster]

Short answer? Doubtful. Epic equipment costs 10x as much as pre-Epic gear for marginally improved benefits. You are better off sticking with a +6 Cha item and buying consumables, wondrous items, and other sweet gear.

Yeah I noticed. What equipment choices would you suggest? What remains viable at this level in the game?

Or is it better to go with this VoP (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140428) fix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8708645&postcount=68)?


Mage slaying... you'll want pearls of power and metamagic rods so you can be a better spellcaster. If you want to slay mages without being a spellcaster things are much trickier. Figure out a safe way to carry Rods of Cancellation, for one. Dust of Disappearance might or might not let you be detected via normal means for seeing invisible. An intelligent item which can cast spells is like having extra actions: stick to things without saves especially buffs. A belt of battle is also good because extra actions. You want to do enough damage to reliably kill a mage in a full attack, but you also need to be able to land that full attack. Ranged attacks are sometimes easier, but they have their own problems in Epic.

I think my biggest problem is approaching the spell caster; I have various tactics to shut them down if I can get even 60 ft of them. But what magic items are especially versatile in terms of movement and getting close to an enemy spellcaster?


There's the magic-blooded template in Dragon 306 which gives you -2 wisdom and +2 charisma (among other things) for a +0 LA

Also: X stat to Y bonus
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732

Oh I'm actually using that template (kind of). Do you know anything else that boost Cha?

Is it possible to have an item that provides a non enhancement boost to Cha?

[Metahuman1]

Unseelie fey gives -2 Str and Con and +2 to Dex and Cha. There's a ritual in players guide to Eberron (I think it was Players guide to Eberron), that lets you get Cha to HP.

A reasonable DM will let you knock a couple of ability's off Draconic creature template form Races of the Dragon so that you can take it down to LA 0. That can net you an extra +2 Cha.

[Randomguy]

If you want to be evil, then get 4 levels of paladin of tyranny (2 for cha to save, 2 more for rebuke undead, which is great if you want to DMM persist), 2 of hexblade, and 2 of blackguard for 3*cha as a bonus to saves. A level of monk once you get arcane spells for cha to AC is also good if you take aescetic mage, and 2 more levels if you're using this fix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150122) for cha to attack rolls with monk weapons and flurry. You can take another feat that turns a weapon into a special monk weapon for you, so you're not limited by as much.
If you don't want to be evil, you can still take a few levels in normal paladin, or barring that Crusader for cha to saving throws. The monk dip is still valid.

For the rest of your levels, you'll want cha based casting. I recommend one side sorcerer with various prestige classes (Incantrix and abjurant champion) and one side favoured soul, also with some prestige classes. (Dweomkeeper from the complete divine web enhancement is the best one.)

If you persist divine power, you get BAB and, thanks to abjurant champion 5, an arcane caster level for every class, equal to your character level. If you persist the spell Ruin Delvers Fortune three times, you get Cha to every save again, as well as evasion and immunity to fear and poison.
If you persist Girallon's blessings, you have 3 hands to use weapons in. I suggest weapons that have a very high crit range, to go with the luck theme, and with many enchantments that boost crits (keen, cursespewing, evervating, the like), since you'll be critting several times per round. If the enchantment doesn't stack with itself, only have it one weapon, which you can hold in your primary hand (so it activates once per round-ish anyway). If you choose an enchantment that allows a saving throw (like the one that affects the enemy with prismatic spray), get it on every weapon for more chance of the enemy rolling a 1 on a save.

If you DMM persist ghostform, you also get cha to AC again as a deflection bonus, and make all your attacks touch attacks.

Since you arcane caster level advances on its own thanks to abjurant champion and persisted divine power, you can take levels in dragon disciple safely for extra cha and a few other goodies.

Since you're in tristalt, you can afford some LA, so choose a race that gives you extra cha. Pixie might be nice for a big cha, int and dex bonus.

Hide is your best friend when it comes to getting close to casters, and so is teleportation and phantom steed (although druids get a phantom stag that's more awesome, and you can swap your favoured soul levels with druid levels if you go into geomancer for cha based druid casting. You'll need to pick up an arcane disciple feat though to get access to Divine Power.) Phantom steed gives awesome movement, to get up close fast. Use of the Hide skill can't be counteracted by any magic, especially if you have hide in plain sight. Also, with persisted ghostform, you don't need ranks in move silently and can't be detected by non-visual senses. Most casters don't have spot as a class skill.
Teleportation gets you where you need to be the best, though.

Celerity and time stop also give you the chance to get up close to the caster.

[JKTrickster]

I will most likely go good and most likely be dipping a variety of classes.

I was thinking about changing to Pixie and taking advantage of the whopping +6 Cha. Assuming LA buyoff and level 25, how far behind does that place me?

I just don't know....how intimidating is a 2 and a half feet fairy? :smalltongue:

But I am considering all the things you told me.

But I already get Cha to AC and Saves like twice...

[docnessuno]

i would suggest:
Petal (MM2) as a race (DM's approval, it's LA+2 cohort)
Dry lich (template, +5 LA) or Walker in the waste (10 level PRC), both from sandstorm, giving undead status and CHA to HP/level