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Chaos_Laicosin
2011-10-26, 12:32 AM
I did a quick internet and forum search but I couldn't find any consistent information of cannons. I was thinking of working them into a campaign and this is what I came up with:

Siege Cannon
Size: 10' x 5'
Weight: 1350 lb.
Cost: 8000 gp.
Ammunition Cost: 5 gp. per shot (any type of ammunition), Powder Keg: 80 gp., enough powder for 9 shots.
Crew: 4
Reload/Re-aim: 8 rounds (so a crew of 4 could accomplish this in 2 rounds)
Damage:
-Cannonball: 12 lb., 400 ft. range, 8d6 x3 bludgeon/pierce
-Chain Shot: 18 lb, 150 ft. range, 6d6 x4 bludgeon/slash
-Grape Shot: 12 lb., 80 ft. cone, 4d6 x2 bludgeon/pierce, attack +12
-Canister Shot (Buck Shot): 10 lb., 60 ft. cone, 3d6 19-20/x2 bludgeon/pierce, attack +14
Notes: This cannon is generally too large for naval combat, however it can be specially mounted as a bow or stern cannon on a ship.

Cannon
Size: 5' x 5'
Weight: 800 lb.
Cost: 5000 gp.
Ammunition Cost: 4 gp. per shot (any type of ammunition), Powder Keg: 80 gp., enough powder for 12 shots.
Crew: 3
Reload/Re-aim: 6 rounds
Damage:
-Cannonball: 8lb., 300 ft. range, 6d6 x3 bludgeon/pierce
-Chain Shot: 12 lb., 100 ft. range, 4d6 x4 bludgeon/slash
-Grape Shot: 8 lb., 80 ft. cone, 3d6 x2 bludgeon/pierce, Attack +10
-Canister Shot: 8lb., 60 ft. cone, 2d6 19-20 x2, Attack +12

Light Cannon
Size: 3' x 3'
Weight: 200 lb.
Cost: 2000 gp.
Ammunition Cost: 3 gp. per shot (any type of ammunition), Powder Keg: 80 gp., enough powder for 15 shots.
Crew: 2
Reload/Re-aim: 4 rounds
Damage:
-Cannonball: 4 lb., 200 ft. range, 4d6 x3 bludgeon/pierce
-Canister Shot: 4 lb. 60 ft. cone, 2d6 19-20/x2 bludgeon/pierce, attack +10
Notes: A lighter and more maneuverable cannon, though it is too small to fire chain shot or grape shot.

-Cannonball fire will continue to penetrate until it strikes an enemy or object with more hit points than the rolled damage. For example: A siege cannon rolls, say, 40 damage. First, you hit a warrior with ten hit points. He dies. Behind him is another warrior with 20 hit points. He dies as well. Behind that one is an officer, a cleric with 39 hit points. He is unconscious, and the ball moves on, hitting the fighter behind him. The fighter has 42 hit points, so the ball stops and the fighter is barely standing. (credit for example to Eldan)
-Chain shot will penetrate enemies with less hit points than the rolled damage. The first object it encounters will stop it. However, if the object is no greater than 5' across, the chain shot will wrap around it while causing damage to everything within a 10' radius of the enwrapped object.
-To attack with a cannon, roll a ranged touch attack using the highest attack bonus from amongst the crew operating the cannon. A roll of a natural 1 indicates a misfire: Powder is lost; 50% chance of losing shot; 5% chance of blowing up cannon and dealing full shot damage to everything within 10 feet of cannon.

kalminos
2011-10-26, 12:47 AM
How are these operated? I see an attack bonus on the grapeshot, but not the others. are the other two types of fire operated like a line weapon such as a line breath or lightning bolt?

Chaos_Laicosin
2011-10-26, 01:34 AM
How are these operated? I see an attack bonus on the grapeshot, but not the others. are the other two types of fire operated like a line weapon such as a line breath or lightning bolt?

I figured standard ranged attack using the highest attack bonus from amongst the operating crew since cannons are pretty much point and shoot.

Cannonballs and chain shot are line attacks with ranges and widths as noted. Chain shot was designed to take out masts and sails in naval combat, but it could just as easily be used against personnel. Though because of the drag brought about by the chain it does not travel as far as a cannonball.

Grapeshot is 12 - 18 fairly large caliber shot (~2.00). Being heavier they will travel farther than canister shot and be able to penetrate wood to a certain depth. Grape shot was originally designed for naval combat to punch through a ships hull and hit the crew below deck.

Canister shot consists of a canister full of about 600 - 800 buckshot (~.38 caliber). It is lighter so it doesn't travel as far or have penetrative abilities, but it is much more numerous and harder to miss with which is why I gave it a higher bonus to attack and a greater critical threat range.

Ashtagon
2011-10-26, 01:57 AM
Why would a light cannon be too small to fire grape shot? Grape shot is basically the same ammunition used in shotguns, which last time I checked, are considerably smaller, and have existed for about as long as "ball" ammunition. The wikipedia article on grape shot is illustrated with a carronade which would have fired grape shot, and it is considerably small than 3x5 feet.

Rather than say xxx-shot will penetrate this much wood, it's better to note the damage it does and compare that to the rules for dealing damage to objects and buildings.

Chain shot wasn't made to be a "line attack". Rather, it was designed to wrap around a ship's mast and rip the sails away. D&D doesn't really have rules to describe how this would affect a ship.

Codemus
2011-10-26, 02:56 AM
Chain shot wasn't made to be a "line attack". Rather, it was designed to wrap around a ship's mast and rip the sails away. D&D doesn't really have rules to describe how this would affect a ship.

True enough. Perhaps the chain shot should stop at the first thing it hits?

Also, consider firing a cannonball at a dragon. I don’t think the ball would go completely through one. It could penetrate its scales sure, but dragons are made of stern stuff. I guess that was the long way of saying ‘What about creatures with high natural toughness?’ Just doesn’t seem right when you can shoot something with a cannon three times, have all cannon balls pass right through the beastie, and it still be around and kicking.

Eldan
2011-10-26, 03:32 AM
On the tough creatures: perhaps take a leaf from Warhammer, here:

Roll damage once (for simplicity). Compare to hit points of first creature. If it's enough to drop that creature below zero, the ball moves on, hitting the next creature behind it. If a creature has 1 or more HP left, the ball stops.

So, you roll, say 40 damage. First, you hit a warrior with ten hit points. He dies. Behind him is another warrior with 20 hit points. He dies as well. Behind that one is an officer, a cleric with 39 hit points. He is unconscious, and the ball moves on, hitting the fighter behind him. The fighter has 42 hit points, so the ball stops and the fighter is barely standing.

Veklim
2011-10-26, 05:55 AM
Will read properly later but just to let you know, the plural of cannon is cannon. There is no 's'. :smallbiggrin:

deuxhero
2011-10-26, 06:42 AM
Chain shot wasn't made to be a "line attack". Rather, it was designed to wrap around a ship's mast and rip the sails away. D&D doesn't really have rules to describe how this would affect a ship.

How about sunder?


Note the prices are rather high, a cannon costs more than a solid house, though the core siege stuff makes that mistake too.

Veklim
2011-10-26, 07:44 AM
Cannon are expensive. Always were, bigger guns (i.e. naval ones mostly) still are. You CAN build a house (especially a DnD stonework hut) for less than it takes to make a good quality cannon or howitzer.

Draken
2011-10-26, 08:06 AM
Looks like you ended up doing something very similar to the cannons (bombards) in Stormwrack. Two kinds there, heavy siege and light siege. Check it out.

Chaos_Laicosin
2011-10-26, 09:49 AM
Ok, I updated the first post. Let me know what you think.


Why would a light cannon be too small to fire grape shot? Grape shot is basically the same ammunition used in shotguns, which last time I checked, are considerably smaller, and have existed for about as long as "ball" ammunition. The wikipedia article on grape shot is illustrated with a carronade which would have fired grape shot, and it is considerably small than 3x5 feet.

I was thinking in terms of bore diameter. A 4 lb. cannonball is only about 2 5/8" in diameter while grapeshot was around 2" diameter (2.00 caliber). You wouldn't be able to get a decent pack with shot that size in such a small bore cannon. Buckshot is what is used in shotguns (up to .38 caliber) and this was used in cannons as canister shot. Also, the carronade was 18th century technology so there would have been greater access to iron, better casting techniques, and likely better ship mountings allowing this shorter cannon to have a larger bore. I was aiming more for earlier cannon technology.

Also, I knocked back the size of the light cannon to 3' x 3'

super dark33
2011-10-26, 01:33 PM
You should include quicklime shells and explosive shells too.

Solaris
2011-10-28, 09:32 AM
EDIT: I'm not trying to say mine are perfect. They're not, by any stretch. They do, however, incorporate a smidgeon of my experience in the field artillery. Gunner makes the attack roll, AG makes an aid another roll, crew chief directs, that sort of thing. Consider this a resource, not a suggestion of a replacement for yours.

That's a tiny siege cannon. The balls, I mean. They're too small. Your tubes are too light, too, except maybe for your little foot arty pieces. If you're looking for anything premodern, it reloads and fires much too quickly. Think "shots per hour", not "shots per minute". I'd put these together before doing some more research - turns out that what I thought was a good-sized naval cannon was actually pretty dinky.
The below are intended to represent fairly advanced cannons; their rates of fire are actually fairly close to those of the M198 and the M777A2 we use today. I've been clocked at twelve seconds between each shot; that's stupidly fast and involved me doing things that I wouldn't recommend to people who want to, y'know, keep on walking. Or breathing, for that matter.
Medieval cannon fired perhaps once an hour if you felt like risking your life (say a cumulative +1 to the 'explode and kill everybody' risk each time it's fired in a 24-hour period - come to think of it, that might be appropriate for these cannons too)... and this assumes it sets a whole lot quicker than real-world medieval cannon did. I recall reading that waiting for the shot to be ready took about six hours, though I don't think I could point you at a source if my life depended on it.

When it says 'space', it means cubic footage. The one-incher would thus take up 5 ft x 5 ft x 5 ft.

Cannon, 1"
Cost: 2000 marks

Damage - Critical: 4d6 - x3
Rate of Fire: Single

Range Increment: 1000 ft.
Ammo: 1 int

Size: Siege Engine (5-ft space)

Weight: 1200 lbs + 750 lbs carriage

Damage Type: Ballistic

A small but common field gun, the one-incher sees a lot of use in actions against enemy formations - or hostile monsters. Most crews pull their one-inchers rather than resort to a team of mules to pull it for them.
A cannon requires a crew of four (the gunner, one ammo crew, two loaders). Loading requires the ammo crew packing blastpowder then the loaders roll a cannonball (or appropriate payload) down through the muzzle. Breech-loading cannons are unknown as yet. They use a ramming staff to pack it in, then the gunner and assistant gunner aim the piece. The chief gives the command, and then the gunner fires. The whole process takes thirty seconds (five rounds) with a trained crew, but an untrained crew can take two minutes or more while a highly skilled crew can reduce that time to three rounds.
The gunner makes an attack roll to hit an area with an explosive shell, but the cannonball requires an attack roll against the target itself. Grapeshot needs no attack roll. Only cannonballs can score critical hits.
On an attack roll of a natural 1, the cannon explodes unless the gunner succeeds on a DC 15 Profession (siege engineer) check. An exploding cannon deals 4d6 bludgeoning damage to everything in a 20-ft radius, while an explosive shell deals another 3d6 points of fire damage. A DC 14 Reflex save halves the damage.
Grapeshot: Chunks of iron, these spray out the cannon in a 200-ft cone. A DC 13 Reflex save is necessary for half damage. Grapeshot costs 1 gp per shot.
Cannonball: A solid cast-iron ball, this is falling out of use as explosive shells become more common. A single cannonball costs 1 gp.
Explosive Shell: A hollow cast-iron ball filled with explosive compounds, an explosive shell has a fuze cut to a delay so that it explodes the round after it lands. A DC 15 Profession (siege engineer) check is necessary to make the shell explode upon landing. A six-inch gun's explosive shell has a 20-ft blast radius, dealing 3d6 points of ballistic and fire damage to everything within its area. A DC 14 Reflex save is necessary for half damage. An explosive shell costs 2 gp.
Proficiencies: Siege Engines

Cannon, 3"
Cost: 3000 marks

Damage - Critical: 5d6 - x3
Rate of Fire: Single

Range Increment: 1000 ft.
Ammo: 1 int

Size: Siege Engine (10-ft space)

Weight: 1500 lbs + 1000 lbs carriage

Damage Type: Ballistic

An average-sized field gun, the three-incher sees a lot of use in actions against enemy formations. It is a staple of the field artillery and the largest of the foot artillery guns, so-called because some armies have their crews pull the gun rather than a mule.
A cannon requires a crew of four (the gunner, one ammo crew, two loaders). Loading requires the ammo crew packing blastpowder then the loaders roll a cannonball (or appropriate payload) down through the muzzle. Breech-loading cannons are unknown as yet. They use a ramming staff to pack it in, then the gunner and assistant gunner aim the piece. The chief gives the command, and then the gunner fires. The whole process takes thirty seconds (five rounds) with a trained crew, but an untrained crew can take two minutes or more while a highly skilled crew can reduce that time to three rounds.
The gunner makes an attack roll to hit an area with an explosive shell, but the cannonball requires an attack roll against the target itself. Grapeshot needs no attack roll. Only cannonballs can score critical hits.
On an attack roll of a natural 1, the cannon explodes unless the gunner succeeds on a DC 15 Profession (siege engineer) check. An exploding cannon deals 5d6 bludgeoning damage to everything in a 20-ft radius, while an explosive shell deals another 3d6 points of fire damage. A DC 14 Reflex save halves the damage.
Grapeshot: Chunks of iron, these spray out the cannon in a 200-ft cone. A DC 13 Reflex save is necessary for half damage. Grapeshot costs 1 gp per shot.
Cannonball: A solid cast-iron ball, this is falling out of use as explosive shells become more common. A single cannonball costs 1 gp.
Explosive Shell: A hollow cast-iron ball filled with explosive compounds, an explosive shell has a fuze cut to a delay so that it explodes the round after it lands. A DC 15 Profession (siege engineer) check is necessary to make the shell explode upon landing. A six-inch gun's explosive shell has a 20-ft blast radius, dealing 3d6 points of ballistic and fire damage to everything within its area. A DC 14 Reflex save is necessary for half damage. An explosive shell costs 2 gp.
Proficiencies: Siege Engines


Cannon, 6"
Cost: 5000 marks

Damage - Critical: 6d6 - x3
Rate of Fire: Single

Range Increment: 1000 ft.
Ammo: 1 int

Size: Siege Engine (10-ft space)

Weight: 4730 lbs -1727.47728 lbs (tube) + 3000 lbs (carriage)

Damage Type: Ballistic

The smallest cannon in common use for siege warfare, the six-inch cannon is still a good-sized siege engine designed for blowing apart enemy formations or attacking light fortifications. It is primarily in terrains too rough for a larger gun to traverse. The cannon requires a small team of two to four mules, but remains well in the realm of portable. Though they're only rarely found in naval service, most mercenary companies have a battery of two or three six-inchers in service.
A cannon requires a crew of five (the gunner, two ammo crew, two loaders). Loading requires the ammo crew packing blastpowder then the loaders roll a cannonball (or appropriate payload) down through the muzzle. Breech-loading cannons are unknown as yet. They use a ramming staff to pack it in, then the gunner and assistant gunner aim the piece. The chief gives the command, and then the gunner fires. The whole process takes thirty seconds (five rounds) with a trained crew, but an untrained crew can take two minutes or more while a highly skilled crew can reduce that time to three rounds.
The gunner makes an attack roll to hit an area with an explosive shell, but the cannonball requires an attack roll against the target itself. Grapeshot needs no attack roll. Only cannonballs can score critical hits. A cannonball or an explosive shell set to delay will bounce after it hits (rolling on the grenade splash chart), making an attack roll against every target in a 100-foot line along its path.
On an attack roll of a natural 1, the cannon explodes unless the gunner succeeds on a DC 15 Profession (siege engineer) check. An exploding cannon deals 6d6 bludgeoning damage to everything in a 30-ft radius, while an explosive shell deals another 3d6 points of fire damage. A DC 15 Reflex save halves the damage.
Grapeshot: Chunks of iron, these spray out the cannon in a 300-ft cone. A DC 14 Reflex save is necessary for half damage. Grapeshot costs 1 gp per shot.
Cannonball: A solid cast-iron ball, this is falling out of use as explosive shells become more common. A single cannonball costs 1 gp.
Explosive Shell: A hollow cast-iron ball filled with explosive compounds, an explosive shell has a fuze cut to a delay so that it explodes the round after it lands. A DC 15 Profession (siege engineer) check is necessary to make the shell explode upon landing. A six-inch gun's explosive shell has a 30-ft blast radius, dealing 3d6 points of ballistic and fire damage to everything within its area. A DC 15 Reflex save is necessary for half damage. An explosive shell costs 3 gp.
Proficiencies: Siege Engines


Cannon, 9"
Cost: 7500 marks

Damage - Critical: 6d8 - x3
Rate of Fire: Single

Range Increment: 1200 ft.
Ammo: 1 int

Size: Siege Engine (15-ft space)

Weight: 13,000 lbs

Damage Type: Ballistic

Nine-inch cannons are the most common field guns in siege actions, designed to blast enemy formations and fortifications into much smaller pieces. They're significantly rarer in field actions on account of their tremendous weight. The nine-inch cannon requires eight mules to pull.
A cannon requires a crew of seven (the chief, the gunner, assistant gunner, two ammo crew, two loaders). Loading requires the ammo crew packing blastpowder then the loaders roll a cannonball (or appropriate payload) down through the muzzle. Breech-loading cannons are unknown as yet. They use a ramming staff to pack it in, then the gunner and assistant gunner aim the piece. The chief gives the command, and then the gunner fires. The whole process takes thirty seconds (five rounds) with a trained crew, but an untrained crew can take two minutes or more while a highly skilled crew can reduce that time to three rounds.
The gunner makes an attack roll to hit an area with an explosive shell, but the cannonball requires an attack roll against the target itself. Grapeshot needs no attack roll. Only cannonballs can score critical hits. A cannonball or an explosive shell set to delay will bounce after it hits (rolling on the grenade splash chart), making an attack roll against every target in a 120-foot line along its path.
On an attack roll of a natural 1, the cannon explodes unless the gunner succeeds on a DC 15 Profession (siege engineer) check. An exploding cannon deals 6d8 bludgeoning damage to everything in a 40-ft radius, while an explosive shell deals another 3d8 points of fire damage. A DC 16 Reflex save halves the damage.
Grapeshot: Chunks of iron, these spray out the cannon in a 400-ft cone. A DC 15 Reflex save is necessary for half damage. Grapeshot costs 3 gp per shot.
Cannonball: A solid cast-iron ball, this is falling out of use as explosive shells become more common. A cannonball costs 3 gp.
Explosive Shell: A hollow cast-iron ball filled with explosive compounds, an explosive shell has a fuze cut to a delay so that it explodes the round after it lands. A DC 15 Profession (siege engineer) check is necessary to make the shell explode upon landing. A nine-inch gun's explosive shell has a 40-ft blast radius, dealing 3d8 points of ballistic and fire damage to everything within its area. A DC 16 Reflex save is necessary for half damage. An explosive shell costs 5 gp.
Proficiencies: Siege Engines


Cannon, 12"
Cost: 15000 marks

Damage - Critical: 6d10 - x3
Rate of Fire: Single

Range Increment: 1500 ft.
Ammo: 1 int

Size: Siege Engine (20-ft space)

Weight: 25,000 lbs

Damage Type: Ballistic

A large cannon that finds a lot of service to both the army and the navy, this is found in some of the largest and wealthiest militaries. A twelve-incher needs a crew of twelve mules to pull it.
A cannon requires a crew of seven (the chief, the gunner, assistant gunner, two ammo crew, two loaders). Loading requires the ammo crew packing blastpowder then the loaders roll a cannonball (or appropriate payload) down through the muzzle. Breech-loading cannons are unknown as yet. They use a ramming staff to pack it in, then the gunner and assistant gunner aim the piece. The chief gives the command, and then the gunner fires. The whole process takes thirty seconds (five rounds) with a trained crew, but an untrained crew can take two minutes or more while a highly skilled crew can reduce that time to three rounds.
The gunner makes an attack roll to hit an area with an explosive shell, but the cannonball requires an attack roll against the target itself. Grapeshot needs no attack roll. Only cannonballs can score critical hits. A cannonball or an explosive shell set to delay will bounce after it hits (rolling on the grenade splash chart), making an attack roll against every target in a 150-foot line along its path.
On an attack roll of a natural 1, the cannon explodes unless the gunner succeeds on a DC 15 Profession (siege engineer) check. An exploding cannon deals 6d10 bludgeoning damage to everything in a 60-ft radius, while an explosive shell deals another 3d10 points of fire damage. A DC 17 Reflex save halves the damage.
Grapeshot: Chunks of iron, these spray out the cannon in a 300-ft cone. A DC 16 Reflex save is necessary for half damage. Grapeshot costs 4 gp per shot.
Cannonball: A solid cast-iron ball, this is falling out of use as explosive shells become more common. A cannonball costs 4 gp.
Explosive Shell: A hollow cast-iron ball filled with explosive compounds, an explosive shell has a fuze cut to a delay so that it explodes the round after it lands. A DC 15 Profession (siege engineer) check is necessary to make the shell explode upon landing. A twelve-inch gun's explosive shell has a 60-ft blast radius, dealing 3d10 points of ballistic and fire damage to everything within its area. A DC 17 Reflex save is necessary for half damage. An explosive shell costs 10 gp.
Proficiencies: Siege Engines