Shadow Magic and Magic PrC's

[Tibbaerrohwen]

When you gain a level of Shadow Caster you can lose a level of an arcane casting class to gain another level in Shadow Caster.

If you have levels in an arcane casting PrC, and you switch out all your Wizard/Sorcerer/whatever levels, do you retain casting as though you still had levels equal to your PrC levels?

Thanks.

[The Random NPC]

Only if the PrC grants arcane casting equal to its level.
Also, if you no longer meet the PrC's prerequisites you do not gain the benefits of the PrC.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

See, that's the issue. Most PrC's specifically state "+1 existing". If you had the ability to cast spells, take enough levels in a PrC and begin to switch out; once you no longer have an "existing class" I figure it probably makes it null.

The issue with requirements becomes, can you count the ability you gain through the PrC towards the requirements? For example, you have 3 levels of wizard and a 4 levels of master specialist. You begin taking levels in shadowcaster and sacrifice a level of wizard. Your wizard levels no longer give you 2nd level spells without the PrC; are you still okay?

It strikes me as a tough sell, and I don't buy it.

Thoughts?

[peacenlove]

See, that's the issue. Most PrC's specifically state "+1 existing". If you had the ability to cast spells, take enough levels in a PrC and begin to switch out; once you no longer have an "existing class" I figure it probably makes it null.


Correct. You no longer have a class to increase its casting capability and you can't change that class to shadowcaster afterwards.


Only if the PrC grants arcane casting equal to its level.
Also, if you no longer meet the PrC's prerequisites you do not gain the benefits of the PrC.

That was an old 3.0 edition rule that got removed in 3.5. Only complete warrior mentions this rule in 3.5 and only for the PrC's in that book.




The issue with requirements becomes, can you count the ability you gain through the PrC towards the requirements? For example, you have 3 levels of wizard and a 4 levels of master specialist. You begin taking levels in shadowcaster and sacrifice a level of wizard. Your wizard levels no longer give you 2nd level spells without the PrC; are you still okay?

Thoughts?

Think Dragon disciple that requires you to be a non dragon and makes you a dragon as a capstone. By a RAW example you get the benefits of the PrC, unless it specifies otherwise.

[Psyren]

That was an old 3.0 edition rule that got removed in 3.5. Only complete warrior mentions this rule in 3.5 and only for the PrC's in that book.


Nitpick: Complete Arcane has it as well.
Neither of them say that the rule is restricted to their certain books, that is as much a personal interpretation as applying it to every 3.5 book. So it depends on your DM in the end.

[Cieyrin]

See, that's the issue. Most PrC's specifically state "+1 existing". If you had the ability to cast spells, take enough levels in a PrC and begin to switch out; once you no longer have an "existing class" I figure it probably makes it null.

If you qualify with your wizard/sorcerer level and apply the +1 existing to your Shadowcaster levels you already have, you should have no problem when you start Creeping Shadow the qualifying levels into Shadowcaster, as long as the prerequisites asked for are a CL or ability to cast a certain level of spells, either of those not specifying arcane or divine. There's an exception for Mystic Theurge in that you can take Shadowcaster on either side, but that's the only one. You also can't qualify if you need a certain spell, even if there's a mystery that duplicates it.

Thanks for reminding me about Creeping Shadow, that makes a Warlock/Shadowcaster Theurge idea a while ago actually more palatable, as the qualifying Sorcerer level I'd need can get made into a Shadowcaster level, so there's no dangling spell progression just hanging out. :smallbiggrin: