Question on Duration of Leap Attack

[deusXmachina]

Hi,

Im pretty new at D&D so I apoligize in advance for any stupid conclusions i make :D

I was reading the descriptions about power attack and leap attack and had some questions..

=================================================
Power attack's BAB penalty and damage bonus applies until your next round
=================================================

Leap charge says: you can combine a jump with a charge, you double your power attack damage

The text does not specify that the doubling of damage applies to the charge attack. The text just says "you can combine a jump with a charge against an opponent"

question : How long does the bonus damage apply?
anwser a : Only to the charge attack
anwser b : Only to the charge attack and a AoO made at the moment of landing the jump (example : you have karmic feat and the spot where you lands provokes an AoO from an opponent that hits you and you get in return an AoO against him)
anwser c : On all attacks made during your round (example : you have karmic feat and charging cause 3 opponents to hit you on AoO, and you hit each of then in return with AoO)
anwser d : On all attacks made until your next round
anwser e : other..


Now, logically I'd say : using the momentum and power of the jump you make 1 devastating leap charge attack, and damage for this attack is doubled. (so anwser a).

Can someone relate the correct anwser?

Thanks

[deusXmachina]

oh.. additional questions..

Karmic strike activates when you get hit by an opponent
If you have DR 5/- and you take 4 damage from an attack, does karmic strike trigger?

(great) Cleave triggers when you kill an oponent, does it also trigger when killing on a kill made by karmic strike while it is not your turn?

If previous question = yes, and you have the frenzied beserker supreme cleave, and have not moved a 5ft step in your last turn, can you still take the 5ft step? (while it is not your turn)

[Person_Man]

Leap Attack does nothing except for modifying the damage bonus from Power Attack. To quote Power Attack, "On your action, before making attack rolls for a round, you may choose to subtract a number from all melee attack rolls and add the same number to all melee damage rolls. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The penalty on attacks and bonus on damage apply until your next turn. "

So, before making attack rolls on any round, you declare if you're using Power Attack, and how much. If you're using Leap Attack (which requires a Charge action), then the damage bonus from Power Attack is increased. The (potentially modified) damage bonus and to-hit penalty (or AC penalty, if you're using Shock Trooper) lasts until the start of your next turn, and applies to ALL melee attacks that you make, including attacks of opportunity from all sources, feats, powers, etc.

Karmic Strike triggers whenever an enemy hits you, regardless of if they deal damage.

Cleave triggers when you kill an opponent, regardless of when or how that opponent is killed.

Yes, a Frenzied Berserker with the Supreme Cleave ability can take a 5 ft step during other people's turns if they kill an enemy with a Karmic Strike or other attack of opportunity.

[deusXmachina]

Ok, 2 more questions to round it up

Leap attack
--------------
you can combine a charge and jump.. etc,, result = extra power attack damage x3 for 2h weapon

Momentum swing (combat brute)
-----------------------------------------
If you charge on round 1, and use power attack with atleast -5 penalty on AB, you gain 3x this damage on your attack with 2h weapon


Question1 : Momentum swing says you need a -5 penalty to AB, does that mean you cannot combine it with Shock trooper (unless you always leave minimum -5 to AB)?
Can you "activate" shock trooper ability afther "activating" momentum swing thereby bypassing this? :smallcool:

Question 2:
Lets say you charge in round 1
In round 2 you activate power attack
You make a leap attack charge against an opponent 20ft away
Does this allow you to use momentum swing?

If yes, is any of following calculations of bonus damage correct?

option A : not applying multiplyer rule (x2 x2 = x3) for x2/3 on power attack
Example Power attack : 5 BAB penalty (5 base damage bonus) :
1h bonus damage = 10 momentum swing ( 5(base)x1(1h Powerattack) x2(1h momentswing) + 10 leap attack ( 5(base)x1(1h power attack) x2(1h leapattack) ) = 20?

2h bonus damage = 30 momentum swing ( 5(base)x2(2h Powerattack) x3(2h momentswing) + 30 leap attack ( 5(base)x2(2h power attack) x3(2h leapattack) ) = 60?

option B : applying multiplyer rule (x2 x2 = x3) for x2/3 on power attack
Example Power attack : 5 BAB penalty (5 base damage bonus) :
1h bonus damage = 10 momentum swing ( 5(base)x2(1h Powerattack x1 +1h momentswing x2) + 10 leap attack ( 5(base)x2(1h power attack x1 + 1h leapattack x2) ) = 20?

2h bonus damage = 20 momentum swing ( 5(base)x4(2h Powerattack x2 +2h momentswing x3) + 20 leap attack ( 5(base)x4(2h power attack x2 + 2h leapattack x3) ) = 40?

option C : Leap Attack and Momentum swing overruling power attack
Example Power attack : 5 BAB penalty (5 base damage bonus) :
1h bonus damage = 10 momentum swing ( 5(base)x2(1h momentswing x2) + 10 leap attack ( 5(base)x2(1h leapattack x2) ) = 20?

2h bonus damage = 15 momentum swing ( 5(base)x3(2h momentswing x3) + 15 leap attack ( 5(base)x3(2h leapattack x3) ) = 30?

option D : other?

[Hirax]

Sadly the wording is unclear enough that I can see it adding an entirely new bonus or simply changing the bonus power attack gives. My hunch is that is it was intended to change the power attack modifier, but you're going to need to ask your DM. Either way, look at combining combat brute with knockback so you can charge and power attack every round, because combat brute doesn't prohibit you from charging to gain its bonus. Then you could put leap attack and combat brute together for 6*BAB damage from power attack.

[Curmudgeon]

Leap attack
--------------
you can combine a charge and jump.. etc,, result = extra power attack damage x3 for 2h weapon
Better start over, because you need to read the Complete Adventurer Errata file, which changes Leap Attack. Then you need to read the Complete Warrior Errata file (specifically the Frenzied Berserker's Supreme Power Attack part) in order to interpret the Leap Attack errata correctly.

[deusXmachina]

===================================
Complete Adventurer Errata :

Page 110: Leap Attack
The second sentence of the Benefit paragraph should
read as follows:
If you cover at least 10 feet of horizontal distance with
your jump, and you end your jump in a square from
which you threaten your target, you deal +100% the
normal bonus damage from your use of the Power
Attack feat.
===================================

If you should read the second sentence as described above
it means you should read the third sentence as described below:

"If you use this tactic with a two-handed weapon, you instead deal +200% the normal bonus damage from your use of the Power Attack feat."

However, rulings for momentum swing are phrased a little diffrent

==============================================
Complete Warrior

"Your attacks on the second round gains a bonus equal to your attack roll penalty x1.5 or x3 if you are using a two-handed weapon or one-handed weapon wielded in two hands"
==============================================

This implies that bonus damage from momentum swing, has nothing to do with "damage" from Power Attack, but only and everything with "attack penalty" from Power Attack
I think this also means that if you use shock trooper and momentum swing together, you momentum swing deals 0 damage (if you convert all to your AC)

Using these rulings i come to following calculation
option D :
Example Power attack : 5 BAB penalty :
1h bonus damage =
5 from Power Attack 1h
7.5 from momentum swing (5 * 1.5)
5 from leap attack (+100% of 5)
= 17.5

2h bonus damage =
10 from Power Attack 2h
15 from momentum swing (5 * 3)
20 from leap attack (+200% of 10)
= 45

I never asked about the supreme power attack but lets calculate that too then

==================================
Complete warrior errata

Supreme Power Attack: A 10th-level frenzied
berserker deals +100% the normal damage from her use
of the Power Attack feat. In other words, when using
the Power Attack feat, a frenzied berserker wielding a
two-handed weapon gains a +4 bonus on damage rolls
(instead of a +2 bonus) for each –1 penalty she applies
to her attack rolls.
====================================

So Example Supreme Power attack : 5 BAB penalty :
1h bonus damage =
10 from Supreme Power Attack 1h
7.5 from momentum swing (5 * 1.5)
10 from leap attack (+100% of 10)
= 27.5

2h bonus damage =
20 from Supreme Power Attack 2h
15 from momentum swing (5 * 3)
40 from leap attack (+200% of 20)
= 75


This time it seems logical and correct :smallcool:
If I am still wrong, let me know

[Zombimode]

I think this also means that if you use shock trooper and momentum swing together, you momentum swing deals 0 damage (if you convert all to your AC)

No, you still take a attack roll penalty. You can shift any portion of it to affect your AC instead of your to-hit, but you still have taken an attack roll penalty (that is caped at your Bab etc.).

Cant comment on the other stuff, since its not all that clear to me, too.

[deusXmachina]

We are having further discussions in our group about "when can you apply extra damage with leap attack"

Their understanding of the rules is :
"You can combine a powerfull charge and a mighty leap into one devastating attack".
"you can combine a jump with a charge against AN opponent"


Thus leap attack extra damage is only against the opponent you charge.
All other attacks made during that turn including
- karmic strike attacks
- cleave attacks
- AoO attacks
do not use leap attack damage,
they do retain their normal PA damage, but not the +100 or +200% damage

Your thoughts?

[Curmudgeon]

Sounds like your group is paying attention to the rules, and that's cool. :smallcool: It leads to happier gaming when people aren't trying to stretch things for greater power.