Mass Level Dip of Wizard Prestige Classes

[HMS Invincible]

My DM realized that incantatrix was faerun, and banned it, so now I'm left scrambling to find something to level for my next 10 levels. I'm guessing I spend 2 more levels in wizard so I can get my feat which will qualify me for a prestige class.
Here's my tentative plan:
Level dip, in an unknown order, Wayfarer's Guide, Master Specialist, Archmage.
I thought about adding in Fatespinner and Loremaster, but I don't think I can qualify for all of them. I'm a lvl 10 conjurist wizard. It's not as elegant as straight incantatrix but I didn't really plan to go into the other prestige classes. =\
Thoughts, advice?

[gbprime]

My DM realized that incantatrix was faerun, and banned it, so now I'm left scrambling to find something to level for my next 10 levels. I'm guessing I spend 2 more levels in wizard so I can get my feat which will qualify me for a prestige class.
Here's my tentative plan:
Level dip, in an unknown order, Wayfarer's Guide, Master Specialist, Archmage.
I thought about adding in Fatespinner and Loremaster, but I don't think I can qualify for all of them. I'm a lvl 10 conjurist wizard. It's not as elegant as straight incantatrix but I didn't really plan to go into the other prestige classes. =\
Thoughts, advice?

You're wanting to end up as Archmage? Or is that just an idea you're floating?

What feats do you currently have and can you retrain?

[HMS Invincible]

I'm a straight wizard, so I have those feats, but I chose quicken spell, empower, iron will and improved initiative. Hmmm... that doesn't sound right. I either missing 2 feats, from wizard 10, or I can't remember what my last two feats are. And yes, he sorta allows retraining, but only sparingly, like when big story arcs end.

You're wanting to end up as Archmage? Or is that just an idea you're floating?

What feats do you currently have and can you retrain?

That's the thing, I dunno. I'm just putting off the decision right now by level dipping in some no drawback prestige classes until I can decide. I mean I heard that archmage was a good capstone for a wizard, and that master specialist was a good way to get the feats required for it. That led me to the idea that if I could use one prestige class to improve another, why not dip into more classes? All of them don't hurt my spellcasting and most of them give me a bonus feat that I would have taken, or would not have received in the first place.

[Dead_Jester]

It really depends on whether or not you're a summoner or a conjurer. If you're a summoner, Malconvoker (CScd) is a classic you can't go wrong with (you don't even have to take all the levels, level 5 is a great exit) and you probably already meet the prerequisites by being a summoner.

If straight up conjuration is more your thing, than Mage of the Arcane Order (CArc) is also great (the Spellpool feature is really great if you need more versatility and for those OMG I need spell x right now! moments) and you probably only need to spend 1 feat to get in (which the class more or less pays back with 2 bonus feats).

In any case, I'd recommend looking up Treantmonks guide to Wizards: Being a God (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19873034/Treantmonks_guide_to_Wizards:_Being_a_God)

[nedz]

Provided that your a Specialist Wizard and not a Generalist: Master Specialist is a straightforward drop in for Wizard. Basically you give up your Wizard bonus feats for some smaller powers focused on your specialism. This sounds like an obvious choice if you aren't going for Wizard 15, certainly for the next two levels, or until you qualify for the PrC you really want.

After that there are many options open: what do you want to do ?
Without knowing what sort of wizard you want to play, or even are playing now, its hard to be more helpful.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Paragnostic Apostle in Complete Champion is pretty good.

Divine Oracle in Complete Divine is great for four levels, you can say you visited the Frog God's Fane in Complete Scoundrel and pay gold to get its feat prerequisite without having to spend a feat on it.

Mindbender 1 if you didn't ban Enchantment, or if you did you can pick up Arcane Disciple for the Lust domain and you'll also qualify for Thaumaturgist.

You can't go wrong with Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil.

[Randomguy]

If you have arcane disciple, I think you qualify for the Dweomkeeper PrC, which is pretty good.

If you're chaotic, and can afford the cross class skill ranks, you could take the wild mage PrC for extra randomness.

[Tokuhara]

If you're chaotic, and can afford the cross class skill ranks, you could take the wild mage PrC for extra randomness.

This is a clinical case of Fluff corrupting crunch. DO NOT EVER TAKE THIS PRESTIGE CLASS

[gorfnab]

I'm a lvl 10 conjurist wizard.
Malconvoker (CS) is pretty decent for a conjurer.

[Tokuhara]

Malconvoker (CS) is pretty decent for a conjurer.

If you summon and don't mind the dirty looks from your GM, than yes, this is a GREAT PrC. Just make sure you have an astronomical bluff

I also suggest internal specialization, primarily with your spells and feats. Remember: Summoning and Conjuring are two different styles of play

[herrhauptmann]

If you're an elf, Olin Gisir (sp?). It's a faerun PrC. Sort of a loremaster type.

Sacred exorcist for a divine bent.

Loremaster is always nice, especially for wizards. I think it's better than most of archmage...

Thayan wizard for circle magic shenanigans...

[Tokuhara]

Thayan wizard for circle magic shenanigans...

Second!

This is a specialist Wizard's wet dream, and it's right out of the Core 3. My fave Conjurer Version:

UA Variant Focused Conjurer 3/Master Specialist 3/Red Wizard of Thay (Or Red Wizard for Short)10/Mage of the Arcane Order 3/Mindbender 1

[Keld Denar]

Divine Oracle is a pretty good lead in to Loremaster. DO requires Skill Focus: Knowledge(Religion). Loremaster requires Skill Focus: Knowlege(Any), and given that religion is a subset of any, you can use the feat for both PrCs. Loremaster then gives you a feat back, as long as your Int is high enough. Its efficient.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Divine Oracle is a pretty good lead in to Loremaster. DO requires Skill Focus: Knowledge(Religion). Loremaster requires Skill Focus: Knowlege(Any), and given that religion is a subset of any, you can use the feat for both PrCs. Loremaster then gives you a feat back, as long as your Int is high enough. Its efficient.

You don't have to spend a feat to get into Divine Oracle, you can just say you visited the Frog God's Fane (in your backstory or during downtime, either works) and pay gold to gain the necessary feat.

[Keld Denar]

Then you double dip AND get a free feat from Loremaster. Either way, its a win.

[Zaq]

This is a clinical case of Fluff corrupting crunch. DO NOT EVER TAKE THIS PRESTIGE CLASS

While I'm not going to say that it's a good PrC, I will mention that it's still a 10/10 Wizard PrC. It's not that bad. It's definitely inferior to most of the other options that have been mentioned, no argument there, but if the rest of the group isn't a bunch of optimizers with T1/T2 classes, you'll still probably be the strongest member of the party even if you take it. Really, the only problem is the cost of entry. It's not like Alienist, which actively makes you worse. (The expected value of Wild Magic is a net gain, after all, and it might even be canceled out with Practiced Spellcaster or the Krau sigil.)

[Wings of Peace]

I'd dip Mindbender then spend the other 9 levels on Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil personally. Never underestimate just how useful a permanent 120ft radar can be.

[Feytalist]

Just a note: if OP's DM banned Incantatrix because it's Faerun, he's not going to let Thayan Mage fly either.

I'm sorta-kinda with Zaq on the Wild Mage, but the only real reason you'd want to play one is for RP purposes. Also, Practiced Spellcaster cancelling out Wild Surge is a hotly contested issue. It's up to DM interpretation in the end.

Really, you can't go much wrong with Master Specialist. For summoners it's Malconvoker all the way, but some retraining might need to be done for your bluff skill.

[docnessuno]

Initiate of the sevenfold veil, possibly the strongest wizard prc out there.
Being only 7 levels long, it even leaves some room for a 5-level prc or some dipping.

[Wings of Peace]

Initiate of the sevenfold veil, possibly the strongest wizard prc out there.
Being only 7 levels long, it even leaves some room for a 5-level prc or some dipping.

I wouldn't say -the- strongest. But it's definitely one of the better options a Wizard can take while still pretending that he's not out to obliterate the compaign. The 7 levels is why it has my vote though. Iot7FV 7/Mindbender 1/Lore Master 1/Archmage 1 will net you the fun of Veils, 120ft Mindsight, 1 feat (which could probably be used for Mindsight), and a High Arcana some of which are fairly nifty.

[Tyndmyr]

This is a clinical case of Fluff corrupting crunch. DO NOT EVER TAKE THIS PRESTIGE CLASS

Correction: Do not ever take this prestige class without also taking Practiced Spellcaster. Oh look, you're at full CL, and now you add a d6 to it every time. Win.

[Tokuhara]

Correction: Do not ever take this prestige class without also taking Practiced Spellcaster. Oh look, you're at full CL, and now you add a d6 to it every time. Win.

That, my friend, is sick. That is asking a DM to throw the heaviest books in d&d at you, along with the anvil he secretly hid in his bag

[gbprime]

Correction: Do not ever take this prestige class without also taking Practiced Spellcaster. Oh look, you're at full CL, and now you add a d6 to it every time. Win.

Yup, that's how you do it. And don't forget to load up on Confusion spells (roll twice and pick which result they suffer from) and grab a Rod of Wonder (same deal).

It's not an awesome wizard progression, but it is viable and has it's uses.

[Tyndmyr]

I'd dip Mindbender then spend the other 9 levels on Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil personally. Never underestimate just how useful a permanent 120ft radar can be.

Er, Iot7v is only seven levels long.

It's damned good, sure, but you still need another two.


That, my friend, is sick. That is asking a DM to throw the heaviest books in d&d at you, along with the anvil he secretly hid in his bag

Thank you. =) However, this wouldn't even raise an eyebrow at my current table. Why, just a few minutes ago, one of my players wanted to confirm that he could take the Landlord feat, spend the money, go Necropolitan, level back up, and repick the feat while keeping the stronghold. He's done well.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The -3 and +1d6 from Wild Mage is a single step, you cannot apply Practiced Spellcaster in the middle of it. This is stated in the FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a), which someone will argue is not RAW, however, "But I want to!" is also not RAW, and the FAQ is the only source of allowing you to apply your own bonuses and penalties in the most beneficial order. Either you accept the FAQ and apply Practiced Spellcaster when it would be most beneficial, but not in the middle of Wild Magic, or you ignore the FAQ and don't get to apply Practiced Spellcaster when it's most beneficial. Welcome to the double-standard of Wild Magic abuse.

[Tyndmyr]

A. Even if we take that interpretation, it still negates any possibility of a poor roll.

B. It's extremely doubtful logic(and as you noted, not RAW) because they are not clearly listed that way in the class entry. It's not a single modifier applied to all rolls, it's two separate ones.

C. Order of application of bonuses is normally in most beneficial/player chosen. Even if it were undefined in this particular area, there is no RAW specific reason to prevent this practice.

[gbprime]

Er, Iot7v is only seven levels long.

It's damned good, sure, but you still need another two.

So spend your 5th level Wizard bonus feat on the Spontaneous Divination ACF (complete Champion) and use those 2 levels for Divine Oracle. This gives you Evasion and the Oracle domain, which among other things now lets you cast Augury and Divination (and any other Divination spells in your spellbook) spontaneously.

[dextercorvia]

The -3 and +1d6 from Wild Mage is a single step, you cannot apply Practiced Spellcaster in the middle of it. This is stated in the FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a), which someone will argue is not RAW, however, "But I want to!" is also not RAW, and the FAQ is the only source of allowing you to apply your own bonuses and penalties in the most beneficial order. Either you accept the FAQ and apply Practiced Spellcaster when it would be most beneficial, but not in the middle of Wild Magic, or you ignore the FAQ and don't get to apply Practiced Spellcaster when it's most beneficial. Welcome to the double-standard of Wild Magic abuse.

It isn't a single step. You permanently reduce your CL by 3 at Wild Mage 1, then you get to add 1d6 when you cast a spell. There is plenty of time in there to add in the bonus from Practiced Spellcaster.

[MesiDoomstalker]

On Wild Magic+Practised Spellcaster, I don't see the issue. When you gain Wild Magic, you take a -3 penalty to CL. Period. You only gain the 1d6 when casting. Practised Spellcaster would eliminate the penatly prior to casting. Now, if Wild Magic was worded "when casting a spell, roll 1d6-3 and add to your caster level. It is possible to take a penalty to your caster level in this fashion." then Practised Spellcaster would only eliminate the chance to lower your CL, but doesn't in effect add 1d6 to your CL.

[Tokuhara]

The -3 and +1d6 from Wild Mage is a single step, you cannot apply Practiced Spellcaster in the middle of it. This is stated in the FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a), which someone will argue is not RAW, however, "But I want to!" is also not RAW, and the FAQ is the only source of allowing you to apply your own bonuses and penalties in the most beneficial order. Either you accept the FAQ and apply Practiced Spellcaster when it would be most beneficial, but not in the middle of Wild Magic, or you ignore the FAQ and don't get to apply Practiced Spellcaster when it's most beneficial. Welcome to the double-standard of Wild Magic abuse.

The way I interpret it is that your caster level was increased by 4 (Wizard) and is given a -4 (Wild Mage), thus, a Wildmage's caster level is his CL+xd6

[Tyndmyr]

It isn't a single step. You permanently reduce your CL by 3 at Wild Mage 1, then you get to add 1d6 when you cast a spell. There is plenty of time in there to add in the bonus from Practiced Spellcaster.

This is the most accurate summary.

There's no reason to believe that Practiced Spellcaster does not work in this scenario. The -3 CL penalty works identically to having a lower CL from say, levels in non casting classes.

[MesiDoomstalker]

The way I interpret it is that your caster level was increased by 4 (Wizard) and is given a -4 (Wild Mage), thus, a Wildmage's caster level is his CL+xd6

Minor nitpick, Wild Magic is a -3 penalty. Which means you can afford another CL loss somewhere and without actually loosing CL. Wait, what am I saying!?!?!? Thou shalt neve loose CL!

[HMS Invincible]

I wouldn't say -the- strongest. But it's definitely one of the better options a Wizard can take while still pretending that he's not out to obliterate the compaign. The 7 levels is why it has my vote though. Iot7FV 7/Mindbender 1/Lore Master 1/Archmage 1 will net you the fun of Veils, 120ft Mindsight, 1 feat (which could probably be used for Mindsight), and a High Arcana some of which are fairly nifty.

This is probably the best option, but I can't afford Iot7FV for a couple reasons. One, I don't have the prerequisites for it, and I don't think I could qualify for each of these classes right away. I'm thinking
Lore Master 3/ Wayfarer 1/ Master Specialist 3/ Fatespinner 1/Archmage 1/Wizard 1
Lore Master and Fatespinner are adjustable depending if I can get more than 1 feat off of Lore master. I can't get Mindbender, I'm chaotic good.

[dextercorvia]

Minor nitpick, Wild Magic is a -3 penalty. Which means you can afford another CL loss somewhere and without actually loosing CL. Wait, what am I saying!?!?!? Thou shalt neve loose CL!

Which is why you combine it with the Spellgifted trait.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Wild Magic gives you a -3 caster level at all times, which would include for meeting prerequisites, such as Mindbender (caster level 5) and item creation feats. When you cast a spell, you gain +1d6 caster level as part of the same effect that imposes the -3. You can apply your own effects in the most beneficial order, but you must decide whether to apply your entire Practiced Spellcaster effect before or after your entire Wild Magic effect.

[nedz]

The way I interpret it is that your caster level was increased by 4 (Wizard) and is given a -4 (Wild Mage), thus, a Wildmage's caster level is his CL+xd6

Wait ! What ?
Just how many times are you taking Wild Mage ?

[Infernalbargain]

Wild Mage 3 is pretty fun for messing around with things like Deck of Many Things and Rod of Wonder.