Alternate uses of (Greater) Create Undead?

[Yorae]

Is it possible to create other types of undead that are noted in the descriptions of these spells?

I'm working on a nonevil necromancer. While he views mindless undead as essentially just the same as animals (Neutral or possibly "neutral hungry"), finding more powerful undead to create that he could possibly consider neutral or good seems difficult. Morghs and Shadows are... well... they're just plain evil, even if, in his opinion, negative energy and the animation of the dead itself aren't.

In the same vein, what happens if this guy awakens a skeleton that he has animated - can it then start gaining class levels?

[Fouredged Sword]

Some of the best undead you can get are created with the simple animate dead spell. Specifically, zombie dragons. They retain their breathe weapon. Some of the metallic dragons have very nice effect breathes as an alternate to damage.

If you awaken them they regain their spell casting, allowing them to gather their own minion or, if less game breaking, cast spells that buff everyone or control the environment.

Check the draconomicon for stats on the template. It has HD= to the HD of the dragon rezed. not 2xhd like a normal zombie. This is actually a good thing, as you can get more dragon for your control buck.

Yes, awakened undead can gain class levels. Have your dragons dip sorcerer enough to get 3rd level spells and then go swiftblade to get an extra standard or move action each round to counter the zombie slowness.

[Optimator]

Check Bone and Corpse creatures in BoVD.

[Coidzor]

Check Bone and Corpse creatures in BoVD.

Which are pretty sweet.

Making individuals into mummies/have the mummified template as a stopgap if a better form of resurrection isn't readily available.

It's a fairly popular suggestion to allow them to create skeletons and zombies that don't have to conform to the limits of the skeletons and zombies created by animate dead in terms of the HD of the base creature.

Fouredged Sword: I just had the most amusing mental image of an awakened zombie dragon loredrake...

[ILM]

If you awaken them they regain their spell casting, allowing them to gather their own minion or, if less game breaking, cast spells that buff everyone or control the environment.
Nowhere in the spell description does it say that they regain their casting. Even if they did, the zombie template gives them a solid -6 to Cha which would dramatically restrict all but the oldest of dragons.

[Yorae]

Check Bone and Corpse creatures in BoVD.

Totally awesome. Thank you!

One question - how exactly do you decide whether you can use Create [Greater] Undead to raise a bone or corpse creature? It says "as undead of their equivalent hit dice", but... the MM entry for Wraith, for example, only has 5HD, which is WAY smaller that you would be able to create with animate dead at that level. Is it saying that you could use Create Undead or Create Greater Undead to create Bone or Corpse creatures in the same way that Animate Dead works (seems to be the implication, but its hard to tell due to the wording)?

[Pilo]

There is in the Dragonlance setting some nice summon undead spell thet allow you to summon shadow and vampire and other. Which allow you can create shadow and vampire throught it.

I know this is not what you are looking for but it may be related.

[Yorae]

Yes, awakened undead can gain class levels. Have your dragons dip sorcerer enough to get 3rd level spells and then go swiftblade to get an extra standard or move action each round to counter the zombie slowness.

Another question - what happens as far as controlling them and their progression once they become self-aware?

Per animate dead, they are still under my control - does that mean they are compelled to do something if I ask them to? Can they argue?

While I'm still controlling them, how does XP work for them? Do they get some amount based on what I get, like a cohort?

[Coidzor]

Another question - what happens as far as controlling them and their progression once they become self-aware?

Per animate dead, they are still under my control - does that mean they are compelled to do something if I ask them to? Can they argue?

They might argue, depends on your DM, but they still gotta do it.


While I'm still controlling them, how does XP work for them? Do they get some amount based on what I get, like a cohort?

Good question! It's not specified.

[JaronK]

Another question - what happens as far as controlling them and their progression once they become self-aware?

Still part of the Animate Dead pool. They're yours.

But how they gain Xp is undefined in the rules, so that's up in the air. Ask your DM.

JaronK

[Fouredged Sword]

Awaken Undead should return the spell casting ability to the dragon zombie, as the spell casting ability itself is not typed and thus it defaults to su, I think. I remember that the default ability descriptor (I think it is SU, but AFB right now) is returned to the creature by awaken undead.

This an awakened zombie dragon has spell casting. The -6 to cha hurts, but that is what loredrake is for! Besides, you want the dragon to be carrying around a set of creatures on it's back in its control pool.

[JaronK]

Awaken Undead should return the spell casting ability to the dragon zombie, as the spell casting ability itself is not typed and thus it defaults to su, I think.

Ex, actually. Though I don't really want to get into that debate.

JaronK

[Coidzor]

Awaken Undead should return the spell casting ability to the dragon zombie, as the spell casting ability itself is not typed and thus it defaults to su, I think. I remember that the default ability descriptor (I think it is SU, but AFB right now) is returned to the creature by awaken undead.

This an awakened zombie dragon has spell casting. The -6 to cha hurts, but that is what loredrake is for! Besides, you want the dragon to be carrying around a set of creatures on it's back in its control pool.

I think that might be one of the few cases where spellhoarding is inferior to regular dragon casting, since Awaken Undead gives a 10 int at best, whereas anything with casting noteworthy enough to want back will have a high enough stat that the -6 is a hit but not crippling, since dragons shouldn't really have spells that rely on saves anyway.