Star Trek and The Culture?

[graymachine]

For sake of discussion, let's say that The Culture encounters a section of the galaxy that holds the Federation of Planets, as well as all the other civilizations of the Trek universe.

What would the The Culture think of them?

What would the Federation (and others) think of The Culture?

Just thought it would be a interesting discussion.

Sidenote: The Culture is obviously the more technologically advanced by a tremendous margin.

[Weezer]

I personally think that the Culture would see the Feds as a society ripe for assimilation into the Culture. In many ways the Feds are merely the imperfect version of the Culture's futuristic utopia, so I think that absorption would be an almost natural reaction.

[graymachine]

I personally think that the Culture would see the Feds as a society ripe for assimilation into the Culture. In many ways the Feds are merely the imperfect version of the Culture's futuristic utopia, so I think that absorption would be an almost natural reaction.

A likely thought, but I'm also curious about the perspective of the Feds on The Culture. Being the less tech developed civilization, they tend to be the source of dramatic drive, as we see in all of The Culture novels.

Also, for others as I realize that The Culture might not be as familiar, general information can be found here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture).

[GloatingSwine]

What would the The Culture think of them?


Naive, but trying.

Although they would have to do something about their approach to the rights of digital sentients.

(Edit: Worth pointing out that the Culture exists in our timeline and is aware of and has visited Earth, so may have watched Star Trek.)

[comicshorse]

Naive, but trying.

Although they would have to do something about their approach to the rights of digital sentients.



Just what I was thinking The Federation do seem to have problems with artifical intelligence and considering the Culture is pretty much run by them I can see them having some reservations about the Culture.
Ditto for the Culture's feelings about genetic enhancement given the Federations paranoia over this they may see the Culture as the kind of society they are trying to avoid becoming.

Whereas the Culture will see these as the last little prejudices the Federation are going to need to get over to be ready for assimilation

[graymachine]

Naive, but trying.

Although they would have to do something about their approach to the rights of digital sentients.

We see some attention to that in the Next Generation episode that deals with the Enterprise gaining sapience, at least enough to reproduce. Actually, given the Trek's comparative level of sophistication, their artificial intelligence technology is severely retarded.

I think that, when actually presented with the reality of sapient AI, the Feds would treat them the same as any biological species.

[Axolotl]

The Culture would see the Federation as quaint and somewhat backwards but overall moving in the right direction, they're certainly better than most groups the Culture interacts with. The best analogy I can think of would be how many modern people view the old Enlightenment and Victorian philosophers who talked about why democracy and free speech are great but at the same time condoneing slavery or imperialism. You roughly agree with them and they're in the right direction but they still come off as farily backwards.

The Federation on the other I'd see as being profoundly impressed by the utopia the Culture has built but at the same time somewhat dissapointed by just how hedonistic they are.

[Excession]

The Federation's phobia of AI and genetic engineering will be the sticking point I think. One effect of this is that Contact might lean toward using more standard human types when dealing with them, similar to what they do with considerably less advanced civilisations. Likewise Contact could keep the extreme hedonism of the Culture downplayed for a while. They don't have to actually lie, just present a slightly skewed first impression.

The Minds might manage to be impressed that a pretty much human standard civ has managed to get so far up the tech tree. Federation transporter tech even seems better in some ways than Culture displacement.

One interesting point. As the Enterprise's main computer isn't actually intelligent, the Culture would have no problem (beyond slightly bad manners) just stripping everything from it get an info-dump on who the Federation is.

[graymachine]

The Federation's phobia of AI and genetic engineering will be the sticking point I think. One effect of this is that Contact might lean toward using more standard human types when dealing with them, similar to what they do with considerably less advanced civilisations. Likewise Contact could keep the extreme hedonism of the Culture downplayed for a while. They don't have to actually lie, just present a slightly skewed first impression.

The Minds might manage to be impressed that a pretty much human standard civ has managed to get so far up the tech tree. Federation transporter tech even seems better in some ways than Culture displacement.

One interesting point. As the Enterprise's main computer isn't actually intelligent, the Culture would have no problem (beyond slightly bad manners) just stripping everything from it get an info-dump on who the Federation is.

Oh, I'm certain that the Culture would be bemused and even slightly impressed with the Feds. I'm fairly curious about the, at least, mild panic that would spread through the Federation; assuming the Federation freely shares information, as it is purported to do as a matter of policy, then this would be amazingly humbling. The Borg, for example, would be nothing to the Culture, and stopping them from forcing their beliefs on others would be almost immediate.

[Arcane_Secrets]

Oh, I'm certain that the Culture would be bemused and even slightly impressed with the Feds. I'm fairly curious about the, at least, mild panic that would spread through the Federation; assuming the Federation freely shares information, as it is purported to do as a matter of policy, then this would be amazingly humbling. The Borg, for example, would be nothing to the Culture, and stopping them from forcing their beliefs on others would be almost immediate.

The Culture novels have an analogue to the Borg. They're called Hegemonizing Swarms or something similar, and by general agreement most species around the Culture's level of technology typically work together in order to fight them. It was a plot point in Surface Detail (which I finished about two weeks ago).

[Excession]

The Hegemonizing Swarm in Surface Detail was somewhat different from the Borg. For one, its elements were below human level intelligence so the Culture had no problem at all just wiping them out. While I'm sure a ROU like the Falling Outside the Normal Moral Constraints would have no technical difficulty destroying a cube or several, even that borderline crazy Mind would be horrified by the loss of life involved. Carefully redirecting the Borg and freeing the individual members (assuming they want to be free) would be a more complex operation.

OTOH the Borg might be more easily converted to Culture than the Federation:

"We are the BorgCulture. We're having this super awesome party and we'd love if you could come and join us. That is, if you want. And we'll totally find someone to give you a ride home if you want to leave." :smallbiggrin:

[graymachine]

The Hegemonizing Swarm in Surface Detail was somewhat different from the Borg. For one, its elements were below human level intelligence so the Culture had no problem at all just wiping them out. While I'm sure a ROU like the Falling Outside the Normal Moral Constraints would have no technical difficulty destroying a cube or several, even that borderline crazy Mind would be horrified by the loss of life involved. Carefully redirecting the Borg and freeing the individual members (assuming they want to be free) would be a more complex operation.

OTOH the Borg might be more easily converted to Culture than the Federation:

"We are the BorgCulture. We're having this super awesome party and we'd love if you could come and join us. That is, if you want. And we'll totally find someone to give you a ride home if you want to leave." :smallbiggrin:

Well, as a measure of point, I referenced the Borg because their level of self-modification, and society-wide modification, is crude and cultish from the Culture's perspective. Honestly, I think the Culture would view the Borg as a religious society, and would prevent them from inflicting their beliefs on others by force while at the same time attempting to reason with them.

[GloatingSwine]

The Culture novels have an analogue to the Borg. They're called Hegemonizing Swarms or something similar, and by general agreement most species around the Culture's level of technology typically work together in order to fight them. It was a plot point in Surface Detail (which I finished about two weeks ago).

It's not really a specific analogue, just something the culture has dealt with before that they call an Aggressive Hegemonising Swarm Object.

The Culture's standard response to them is to attempt to convert them into an Evangelising Hegemonising Swarm Object. So, the Borg would be exactly as they are, but with offices on every planet in the galaxy where you could go and join up, and adverts on TV telling you how wicked keen it would be to be in the Collective.

[graymachine]

...So, the Borg would be exactly as they are, but with offices on every planet in the galaxy where you could go and join up, and adverts on TV telling you how wicked keen it would be to be in the Collective.

This. I can imagine ads playing on television for the Borg that are like all of those awful Armed Forces recruitment ads. :smalltongue:

[Arcane_Secrets]

This. I can imagine ads playing on television for the Borg that are like all of those awful Armed Forces recruitment ads. :smalltongue:

The slogans practically write themselves...

"An Army of One Hundred Billion"
"Borg All That You Can Be."

[graymachine]

"A Collective of One."

This has given me the chuckles.

[The Reverend]

I think the feds would join, but would probably not allow their advanced AI to take part in the federation. Negotiations would have to be done via flesh and blood.


On a side note one the reasons the Feds have gotten so far, at least according to show supported fanon, is their use of the comfy chair and a Highly effective counseling(penal) and reformation system.

Their aversion to widespread genetic engineering is of course their experience with the eugenic wars and the second dark age of the 21st/22nd centuries.