[PF] Weak-Armed Alchemists?

[The Glyphstone]

Is there any way to increase the range of an alchemist's thrown bombs? As printed, a lvl1 Alchemist and a lvl20 Alchemist can both chuck an explosive exactly 20ft. away, but no further. Splash Weapon Mastery has no effect, because bombs don't have a range increment as printed, only a range.

[Marnath]

There's a gnome calculus or something in one of the books, maybe RoS? It's a giant sling that holds things like alchemists fire IIRC.

*edit: Arms and Equipment guide. It's a small exotic weapon with a range increment of 50 ft. Weighs 2 lbs, costs 50GP (and a feat, obviously.)

[The Glyphstone]

Would that work with the flat-range of a bomb (which I imagine is supposed to be the length of the fuse or something), compared to every other thrown weapon in the game having a range increment?


And if not, would it be broken to have a Discovery that gives bombs a range increment to make them qualify? Say, this:

Slow-Burning Fuse
Benefits: Your bombs can now be thrown further than normal. Within 20ft. there is no penalty to the attack roll. For each additional 10ft. you throw it, up to an additional 50ft., you suffer a -2 on the attack roll.

[Larpus]

Can't you just throw them farther away with a -2 penalty on the to-hit for every 20ft just like a ranged weapon?

[Stone Heart]

Yeah thats what I always thought it was. Just take the -2 penalty like you would with any other ranged weapon.

As a dm thats how I would run it, and I would argue against it if someone was trying to make it a discovery.

[The Glyphstone]

Thing is, I'm not certain bombs aren't supposed to be that way - they have a range of 20ft. and use the splash weapon rules, while every other splash weapon printed in the game has an explicit range increment. I'm not certain if the deliberate omission of 'increment' here is intentional or not - they're fluffed as alchemical items, but in a lot of other ways they behave like spell-like abilities (scaling damage, limited uses/day, standard action activation) so a set maximum range wouldn't be out of the question.

[Larpus]

I'm not sure, it looks like an unintended omission.

It is mentioned that bombs are thrown weapons and can even be selected with weapon feats such as Rapid Shot, Vital Strike and so on. So to me, it seems very unlikely that bombs can't be thrown further than 20ft just for a single word omission without any text to support it.

After all, the text also didn't say they can't be thrown further than 20ft :smallwink:

Hey look, my first smile!

[hiryuu]

Thing is, I'm not certain bombs aren't supposed to be that way - they have a range of 20ft. and use the splash weapon rules, while every other splash weapon printed in the game has an explicit range increment. I'm not certain if the deliberate omission of 'increment' here is intentional or not - they're fluffed as alchemical items, but in a lot of other ways they behave like spell-like abilities (scaling damage, limited uses/day, standard action activation) so a set maximum range wouldn't be out of the question.

You're supposed to use the definition of "range" from the combat chapter for alchemists, which means that's as per normal thrown weapons. So, yes, that's their "increment." Pathfinder weapons concern themselves with "range" and the definition and expansion into increment is covered under that heading. Bombs get five increments just like every other thrown weapon.


Range: Any attack at more than this distance is penalized for range. Beyond this range, the attack takes a cumulative –2 penalty for each full range increment (or fraction thereof) of distance to the target. For example, a dagger (with a range of 10 feet) thrown at a target that is 25 feet away would incur a –4 penalty. A thrown weapon has a maximum range of five range increments. A projectile weapon can shoot to 10 range increments.