Move + full attack for scout

[aza9999]

I've been searching the interwebs to try and find ways to be able to move at least 10-20ft as a scout (for skirmish) and still be able to full attack in conjunction with spring attack, i.e. i want to run to enemy, hit him and run away again.

So far the ways i've found are:
1. Dervish dance - but that has limited times per day
2. Two weapon spring attack - go tempest and you attack with both weapons but not a true 'full attack'
3. bounding assault - once again allows two hits but not a true full attack.

What other methods are there?

We're limited to human in race and we've started at level 1 (just made level 2 at the end of the first session)

So far the build i have in mind is:

1 - Scout, take dodge and mobility (human bonus)
2 - Ranger
3,4,5 - Scout, combat expertise, spring attack (scout bonus)
6,7,8 - Ranger, swift hunter, spirit companion instead of animal companion
9 - scout gets me evasion and another skirmish dice.

From there i'm tossing up dervish or tempest.

So can anyone tell me of any other ways to get full (or at least multiple) attacks when moving for skirmish?

[Kaje]

Travel Devotion.

[FyreByrd]

Easiest way that I know of, although check with DM as to whether they'd like it or not (some don't) would be a 1 level dip in cleric for Travel Domain + Travel Devotion Feat (Complete Champion pg63)

Burn turn undead uses for move as a swift action. so you would move(As swift) then full attack.

only can be done 1+turn uses/day, but with pumping you turn undead uses you can have a decent amount.

Also things like some of the shadow hand manouvers from ToB (although that won't come online for quite a while), and anklet of translocation, are often used ideas...although again some would say they shouldn't be allowed!

EDIT: Sword-sage'd, but I provided more detail :smallbiggrin:

[Thurbane]

You don't actually need Cleric levels to use Devotion feats, but the extra uses from using Turn attempts are handy...as well as trading in a domain to get the feat for "free".

[GoatBoy]

DC 40 Tumble check lets you move 10 feet as a 5-foot step. In Oriental Adventures, which is 3.0.

Sparring Dummy of the Master (or something like that) from Arms and Equipment Guide, which is also 3.0 material, also lets you take a 10-foot step.

Climb up a wall using the scout ACF from PHB2. On your next turn, fall to the ground (a free action) and then take your full attack.

Greater Multishot feat isn't a full attack, but gets you skirmish damage on all shots in a Multishot attack.

[FyreByrd]

You don't actually need Cleric levels to use Devotion feats, but the extra uses from using Turn attempts are handy...as well as trading in a domain to get the feat for "free".

Yeah but the turn attempts are so useful, I automatically advise a cleric level in there! Also I knew I was forgetting to mention something...Forgot trading domain!

[aza9999]

The cleric and devotion thing is one i hadnt thought of, but still very limited in it's uses per day, plus im sure the GM would call total cheese at a 1 level cleric dip just to buff up my swordplay. Taking travel devotion without a cleric is possible, but once again it's a whole feat just to be able to full attack once per day.

The thing i like about tempest is that you get two attacks every round once you get two weapon spring attack.

Dervish dance is good in that it lasts for at least a few rounds, you get full attacks with both weapons for the duration, and as you level you can use it more often

[Andreaz]

Hmm.
Psionics have the power "Hustle". It gives you an extra move action that round and costs 3pp.

If you really really don't want to damage skirmish progression, get a wand of that stuff and use magic device... or psionic device if your group really bothers separating psionics from arcane and divine magic :p

[FyreByrd]

Well DM's are all different, I tend to recommend to my players a cleric dip(or other solution) if they're playing a scout, but that's me. if your DM will call cheese on Cleric dip plus Travel devotion for a Scout, then I'm not sure how happy they will be with any other gain move+full attack ideas.

There's a handbook somewhere for Scout that I saw, but can't find it at them moment, so not sure if it's going to be any good.

EDIT: edited for clarity!

[Andreaz]

Well DM's are all different if the DM will call cheese on Cleric dip plus Travel devotion for a Scout, then I'm not sure how happy they will be with any other gain move+full attack ideas.

There's a handbook somewhere for Scout that I saw, but can't find it at them moment, so not sure if it's going to be any good.
Like how falling is a free action :D

[FyreByrd]

Like how falling is a free action :D

Yeah Cleric dip I'd be fine with...


...falling as a free shenangians would suddenly find said player surrounded by balors

[aza9999]

I found this scout handbook here http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872250/The_Scouts_Handbook which i've slowly been working my way through, but wasnt sure how good a guide it was, or if others had good ideas here too

[gkathellar]

Swiftblade.

It gets you movement, more (and better) skirmish, improvements to your entry spellcasting, crazy awesome defenses, and 3.0 haste. Mystic Ranger w/ Sword of the Arcane Order can satisfy your Swift Hunter fix, while getting you access in 6 levels.

Sample Build: Shooting Star Mystic Ranger 8/Scout 3/Swiftblade 9. +4d6/+4 skirmish (more with Improved Skirmish, which you can easily use), full attack and move, 5th-level wizard spells, 50% concealment against attacks and spells, extraordinary triple-extended haste, crazy movement speed, so on and so forth.

[aza9999]

Hadn't heard of swiftblade before but looking at it on the wizards site it states one of the pre-req's as being able to cast haste? Is that the 'shooting star mystic' part?

[Murdim]

Also things like some of the shadow hand manouvers from ToB (although that won't come online for quite a while)
Actually, all maneuvers are freely available on the WotC website, as a web enhancement.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a

[GodGoblin]

Is anything wrong with using the Pounce variant Barbarian? 1 Level dip and you full attack on a charge!

[aza9999]

Good for closing on enemy but means you are left standing next to them, so you can't use your skirmish next round unless you target another opponent...as well as the usual dangers of being left standing next to an angry just slashed opponent who can then use their full attack on you :smallbiggrin:

[Darrin]

Hmm.
Psionics have the power "Hustle". It gives you an extra move action that round and costs 3pp.


Hustle requires a significant investment into either Psychic Warrior or Ardent. Dimension hop is a bit more efficient (particularly if you can use the Hidden Talent feat to pick it up).

Check Person_Man's list of Ways to get Pounce or Free Movement (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103358) for more ideas.

[aza9999]

just realised the travel devotion lasts for a minute, not just a round as i originally thought...that does make it a much more appealing option.

[FyreByrd]

Actually, all maneuvers are freely available on the WotC website, as a web enhancement.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a

I meant come online as in the manouvers here high-level manouvers, not online as in...you know online!

[aza9999]

Double post...silly website was throwing up 500 errors

[gkathellar]

Hadn't heard of swiftblade before but looking at it on the wizards site it states one of the pre-req's as being able to cast haste? Is that the 'shooting star mystic' part?

No, Sword the Arcane Order (from Champions of Valor) has you covered for Haste, but on a normal ranger you're going to have to wait until 11th level for access to 3rd level spells.

Mystic Ranger, from Dragon, and dramatically increases the ranger's spellcasting so that he gains 3rd level spells by class level 6. Combined with Sword of the Arcane Order, this gives you Haste as a level 6 Mystic Ranger.

Shooting Star is a set of ranger substitution levels that increase your casting power somewhat. Not strictly essential, but solid.

EDIT: If you're feeling crazy, throw Wildshape Ranger into the mix, and then spend all your time as a Fleshraker Dinosaur. Fleshraker Pounce + Skirmish + Wraithstrike on every action is kind of awesome.

[Fearan]

Also, chronocharm of the horison walker. Once per day move half your speed as swift.

[von Tortrix]

Does teleporting count? Because you could take one level or Ardent and take the Freedom Mantle, 1st level power: Dimension Hop. Teleport 10ft (+5ft/pp) as a swift action. Enough to activate full round Skirmish possibly?

[von Tortrix]

Does teleporting count? Because you could take one level or Ardent and take the Freedom Mantle, 1st level power: Dimension Hop. Teleport 10ft (+5ft/pp) as a swift action. Enough to activate full round Skirmish possibly?

...hmmm right, but i suppose this won't get you both in (full atk) and out...

[Seharvepernfan]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned swordsage. It's a great class to mix with scout.

Anyway, sudden leap works pretty well for what you want, if you can do it regularly.

Also, ask your dm if the capstone from tempest will let you make off hand attacks with bounding assault and rapid blitz, netting you 4 and 6 attacks on a spring attack, respectively.

Dervish is probably your best bet (I've always considered it to be cheesy), so I'd get into that ASAP.

(one of my favorite builds is scout 3/swordsage 3/transmuter 5/swiftblade 9)

[The Underlord]

For melee there is a warblade dip to get the stance from white raven( and Iron heart surge!) that lets you take an extra five foot step.

For ranged, a totemist 2 dip with net you manticore belt. As an azurin(bonus feat and essentia) with bonus essentia and with a feat that gives you a point of essentia and get expanded soulmeld capcity(or whatever alllows you to put an extra point of essentia in a soulmeld). Since essentia capacity is based of character level, at 20th level you can invest 6 essentia into it (4 base, one from totem capactiy, one from feat) to have 6 ranged attacks as a standard action. Just noticed this is for melee specific.

[Qwertystop]

Does movement from teleporting count? If so, an item of some kind of immediate-action or swift-action short-range teleportation would be good, especially since it has lots of other uses.

I just imagined a Scout and a Wizard teleporting right in front of the BBEG, and the scout gets a lot of bonus damage in the surprise round because they had been about 100 miles away pre-teleport.

[Person_Man]

Darrin already posted the Pounce and Free Movement (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103358) thread, which comprehensively lists all of the ways you would need.

Which option you use depends heavily on your ECL.

The easiest option is to just take the Evasive Reflexes feat (allows you to take a 5 ft step instead of AoO, Tome of Battle) and anything that triggers AoO (Karmic Strike, Hold the Line, just using a reach weapon, etc) and a wand of Lion's Charge (Druid 3/Ranger 2 spell, Spell Compendium - you don't need UMD, because it's a Ranger spell) inside of a wand chamber. Pick up an Anklet of Translocation (Swift Action 10 ft movement, 2/day, Magic Item Compendium), and you're set.

But for the record, this is why I almost never play Tier 4 or lower builds any more. You have to put tons of effort into the build just to get it's class features to work, and even when you do, the benefits are marginal.

[aza9999]

I'd previously looked at sword sage and for some reason wasn't too enamoured, but looking again im starting to like it for at least a 1 level dip, sudden leap looks great once i get my jump skill up enough to use it reliably, and wolf strike is good too

[Snowbluff]

Sword Sage for +2d6 sneak stance + Sudden Leap, or use Warblade just for Sudden Leap. I think a later stance gives you another 5ft to your five foot step, giving you the prereq 10ft for scout