Looking to optimize a core low-op melee build

[Ceaon]

Hey all!

This is a build made for a low(ish)-op 3.5 game. We will only use the PH+DMG+MM, so sources are extremely limited.

Monk 2/Rogue 5/Shadowdancer 3/Duelist 10.

The character will wield a siangham, making a flurry with sneak attacks, walking around unarmored. Stats are undetermined, but the build focuses on high dex, int and wis, while trying to keep str, con and cha around 10 or higher for RP-reasons. The character started as a way to make a valid core-only duelist build. Shadowdancer is used to gain HiPS and Darkvision. The third shadowdancer level is mainly rule of cool (illusions and a shadow companion).

The campaign will have mostly non-magical humanoid NPCs as enemies, with sometimes a spellcaster or monster thrown in for variation.

Are there any easy ways to optimize this build with the restrictions given (duelist 10 is greatly preferred)? Which race should I pick (again, PH only)? Are there any must-have feats?

Thanks in advance!

[Mystral]

Well..

Race: Human is okay, though you won't that many feats (there are not so many good feats in the PHB). Halfling will be good, too, to give you some dex for hitting. I'd advise human, though, as you will need quite a few feats only to get into your prestige classes.

Attributes: Dex>Int>Con>Wis>Str>Cha

Int is more important then Wis because you will be mainly usefull because you can use a lot of skills. Wisdom will not give you much as your enemies will have a high fort save when they are mostly martial types.

Feats:

1: Dodge
Monk Bonus 1: Stunning Fist (Your Strength will suck, so Grapple wont help)
Monk Bonus 2: Combat Reflexes (Requisite for shadow dancer)
3: Weapon Finesse
6: Mobility (So you can take level 8 in a prestige class)
9: Improved Initiative
12: Improved Crit (Siangham)
15: Blind Fight
18: Weapon Focus (Siangham)
(If Human, take everything 1 earlier and take at level 18): Run

Skills should be obvious (Stealth, Athletics)

Does it have to be monk? I think the build we stronger with 2 Levels Rogue.

Or you could go barbarian. ^^ That might be an amusing build. Barbarian 8/Fighter 2/Duelist 10

[Arcane_Snowman]

I'd suggest getting Two-weapon Fighting, with a Rogue the more attacks you can get, the more sneak attack damage you'll get out of it. From an Rogue 19/Shadowdancer 1 is pretty decent. I'm not sure how you'd do for a good Duelist build in core, it's not that great of a PRC to begin with.

[Ceaon]

How do flurry and TWF interact exactly? It's something I've always been fuzzy on.

[Eldariel]

How do flurry and TWF interact exactly? It's something I've always been fuzzy on.

Flurry gives you extra attacks with penalties. TWF gives you extra attacks with penalties. Combined they give you more extra attacks with more penalties. *shrug* About as you'd expect.

[Ceaon]

Any magic items that would improve this build?
Edit: And would TWF with a siangham and an unarmed strike interfere with the Precise Strike class feature of the Duelist?

[Darrin]

And would TWF with a siangham and an unarmed strike interfere with the Precise Strike class feature of the Duelist?

That depends on whether or not you interpret an off-hand unarmed strike as an "attack with a weapon in her other hand". While an unarmed strike is a weapon, it's not exactly something you hold in your hand. You can also make unarmed strikes with kicks, knees, elbows, headbutts, etc., leaving one of your hands completely empty. The term "off-hand" is also misleading, since there are several offhand attacks that don't necessarily involve hands at all, notably armor spikes and shield spikes.

[SamBurke]

Any magic items that would improve this build?


A custom magic item of +1 True Strike, use activated. It'll cost a whopping 6,000 (CL 3).

[Qwertystop]

Or a use-activated sword of True Strike.

[Mystral]

I wouldnt advise twf. You are hitting bad enough as it is, and don't have that many feats to spare.

[Hirax]

A custom magic item of +1 True Strike, use activated. It'll cost a whopping 6,000 (CL 3).



No it'll cost more. You forgot to add the hospital bill he'll get when his DM bludgeons him with a DMG for asking to get a custom item of true strike.

[deuxhero]

Try Horizon Tripper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80415).

[ShneekeyTheLost]

May I ask why Monk? It seems to be a horrid nerf to what you are wanting to do, without much benefit gained.

I'd highly suggest Improved Feint so you can apply your sneak attack more frequently, along with a good Tumble check to get into flanking position easily without getting killed in the process.

Most of the Duelist's abilities involve only using a single weapon, not attacking with any other weapon or using a shield. Depending on your GM's reading of flurry, this may invalidate that. It definitely invalidates TWFing.

Make sure to have a backup bow, just in case. HiPS + high Hide checks + being able to take a -20 on your check while making an attack = good sniper. Granted, that's not your primary focus, which is being the best swashbuckler that ever buckled a swash, but when you find your opponents taunting you from across a ravine, or hovering just outside of reach in the air... you'll have a fallback option.

[Ceaon]

Monk was is (you haven't changed my mind completely yet) mainly for better saves and flurry and wis to AC (as I will be unarmored due to duelist already) - two more levels of rogue basically just gives me +1d6 sneak.

Going feint instead of TWF is good advice. I myself was kinda iffy whether precise strike and TWF would work together, even when attacking with your feet as a second weapon.

Bringing a bow is a good idea - but I never play a character without a ranged weapon (bad memories) so it's a good idea I already had :smallamused:

The Horizon Tripper is great, better than a build that includes Duelist 10 could ever be, but not what I'm looking for. For comparison, if I went horizon tripper, it would probably be the most powerful characters in the campaign.

[avr]

Core low op suggests you might not be able to buy magic items. If so, a race with darkvision is essential for sneaking.

[Ceaon]

Shadowdancer grants Darkvision eventually.