[PF] Barbarian Build

[Blyte]

I am playing in a game with only 3 players and to amp up our power a bit the DM is giving our characters 1 feat every level.

I decided to make an Overrun Barbarian with the "Titan Mauler" class option. (on a side note: the alternate class options seem like they were written by a child with a crayon, some being a little better than others, but overall very fuzzy on the rules and most are just plain horrible)

Basically the character is designed to overrun everything Large size and smaller (due to feat and rage power selection), and effectively banter with everything Large and above (due to Titan Mauler variant).

I am a bit torn between Human,Orc, and Dwarf, but currently selecting human.

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Lvl 6 Human Barbarian(Titan Mauler)

Feats
Power Attack
Combat Reflexes
Improved Overrun
Spiked Destroyer
Greater Overrun
Extra Rage Power
Extra Rage Power

Rage Powers
Reckless Abandon
Auspicious Mark
Strength Surge
Overbearing Advance
Overbearing Onslaught

Traits
alternate racial trait "Heart of the Fields" (ignore fatigue or exhaustion 1/day)
Optomistic Gambler (keep rage effects 1d4 rounds after dismissed)
Reactionary (+2 initiative) .. or go extra cheesy and take "Adopted", and take the alternate dwarven racial trait "Relentless" for +2 to Overrun

Planning to use a Fire Giant's or Ogremage's greatsword, and might need to take heirloom weapon to get one off the bat with my GM.
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Basically made this build to be a min/maxed abomination because my friends I play with were saying that the pathfinder Barbarian was not a viable class option. Looking forward to making the GM cry. Would love some critiques.

[grarrrg]

....DM is giving our characters 1 feat every level....

...(on a side note: the alternate class options seem like they were written by a child with a crayon, some being a little better than others, but overall very fuzzy on the rules and most are just plain horrible)...

....I am a bit torn between Human,Orc, and Dwarf, but currently selecting human....

As far as the Archetypes go, most are like that. Most are designed with either Specialized or "Flavor" in mind. I do like the Invulnerable Rager archetype for the Barb though, DR = 1/2-level is nice.


If the DM is giving you twice the feats, then i see no point in going Human.
Between Half-Orc and Dwarf, I would take Half-Orc as they have access to a lot of Barbarian-Style feats.

Razortusk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/razortusk) gives you a bite attack, which while not spectacular, is still an extra attack.

Gore Fiend (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/gore-fiend-combat) gives you extra Rounds-Rage everytime you make or take a Critical Hit.

Ferocious Tenacity (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/ferocious-tenacity-combat) lets you spend Rounds-Rage to reduce the damage of an attack that would otherwise kill you (drop below 0).

There are some other useful Orc-Barb themed feats, but most require other Barbarians in the party to be of any use.


Also, squeeze in 3 levels of Horizon Walker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/horizon-walker) if you can.
Take "Desert" as your Mastered/Dominated terrain.
Terrain Mastery lets you treat Exhausted as Fatigued (Immune to Exhausted)
Terrain Dominance gives you Immunity to Fatigued (and Fire Resist 10).
Congratulations! You can now Rage whenever you want for however long you want!

And as long as we're dipping for fun an profit, with 3 levels in Horizon Walker, that means max Barb level is 17. Barb 17 gives:
Tireless Rage.
We no longer need that thanks to Horizon levels. So what can we dip...
Living Monolith (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/i-m/living-monolith) maybe?
The first level gives you 3/day uses of Enlarge Person (Caster level/Duration 6 minutes)

[Blyte]

Thanks, but going Half-orc, (effectively loosing a feat) and trying to fit in 3 more feats is a hard thing to do, and still be an overrunning machine.

Razor Tusk, I definately wouldn't use since I intend to charge every round that I can, but.. the other two feats would be awesome.

I was planning to add the feat that gives you rage for every foe you reduce to 0hp... I think it's called raging deathblow.

Were I building a non-overrun optomized character I would take both gore fiend, and raging deathblow AND take ferocious tenacity AND!!! take the Invulnerable Rager archetype, making an unkillable barbarian... which is another build that might make my DM cry... were he starting us at lvl 8 with improved crit an option I would definately consider going that route with all the more gorefiend proccs on a falchion.

However, I want to totally dominate the battle field, and leave all his monsters knocked on thier rear and bleeding at the end of every turn.

[Curious]

Three rage powers you want to grab at some point; Superstition, Spell Sunder, Eater of Magic.

Three rage powers you need to grab at some point; the animal totem powers for pounce.

[Blyte]

really? superstition? I don't want to try and resist a heal spell cast on me that might save my life.. and will saves aren't bad for a raging barbarian.

I considered pounce, but squeezing it in on my overrun barb wasn't an option, and by the time I can fit it in (the 3 required for pounce), there are better rage powers like "Come and Get Me" available..

so I opted for swift foot, sprint, then come and get me... perhaps extra rage power(unexpected strikes).. but I might just keep that feat for furthering my vital strikes, improved vital strikes, devastating strikes chain.. or Cleavage chain.

--- edit: guess I could do it as well and squeeze in a whole mess of extra rage power feats.

forgoeing vital strikes, and get my full attacks in every round.. pounce is complementary to my charging build.

[Larpus]

But, but...it's pounce, man!

You can Charge and full attack!

I mean, sure, I agree that the middle power is quite underwhelming, if it were 2 natural armor every 4 levels it would be more interesting and desirable, but I see nothing wrong with the lesser one.

Gone are the days when you'd be in bad shape for being disarmed and, if your DM interprets the handling rules the same way as I and my DM did, it actually gives you a free shortsword attack at -5 all the time, since it's a free action to let one of your hands go of your weapon and then attack with it (you can't attack with the other one because it needs to keep holding the weapon) and in the low levels, before magical weapons become too popular, you're likely to deal more damage with your two claws than with any weapon.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and really, Superstition, the Cure X line of spells is kinda bad for mid-combat healing as it often leads to the 22 situation "heals 20 damage, takes 20 damage, heals 20 damage, etc" except that spells run out, but a dragon's fangs don't get blunt. So far the only ways of effective mid-combat healing I've seen is Channel Energy (unaffected by Superstition) and fast healing.

There are times when a well-placed heal can really help, but I don't think you should worry so much.

[Mockingbird]

Instead of human, take Goliath from Races of Stone. You can use a weapon one size category larger than you without penalty. That means with Titan Mauler you can use weapons two sizes larger than you. :D

[Talentless]

EDIT: Oh yeah, and really, Superstition, the Cure X line of spells is kinda bad for mid-combat healing as it often leads to the 22 situation "heals 20 damage, takes 20 damage, heals 20 damage, etc" except that spells run out, but a dragon's fangs don't get blunt. So far the only ways of effective mid-combat healing I've seen is Channel Energy (unaffected by Superstition) and fast healing.

There are times when a well-placed heal can really help, but I don't think you should worry so much.

Also, haven't paid too much attention to Barbarians in PF, but does Superstition suddenly make it impossible for a Player to Intentionally fail a save? :smallconfused:

Because if so, that really does change my view of the ability slightly, not enough to not take it, but enough to weigh in against other options at the time.

[Blyte]

Yes, you must attempt to resist all spells, including friendly "harmless" ones.

and even in a "heals 20 takes 20 scenario", a 20hp heal can be the difference between life and death, and increased saving throws aren't going to blunt those dragon fangs any more.

sorry but I don't want to resist hastes, enlarge persons, heals, etc.. and I am not guaranteed to have a channel energy healer. It might be an oracle, it might be a druid, or it might even be a summoner with healing wands... I don't want any of them discouraged from attempting to heal me in combat.

[Larpus]

Haste, Enlarge and other buffs are usually passed around in the beginning of combat, just hold your Rage a bit 'till you're buffed.

And yes, I know there are some times when getting healed can save your life, but you should have enough HP so that doesn't happen often and most spells that can truly save your life are the ones that make your opponent suck rather than heal you.

Example time!

Scenario:
An archer, which you'll take 2 rounds running/charging to get to, hits you with two arrows a round for about 4-13 damage each, you're kinda in bad shape from a recent fight, so you might die within the two rounds that you'll take to hit him with your stick. We're about level 3 or so here.

Since this example is about you and your interaction with party support and Superstition, I'll assume that no one can do anything about the archer and the best idea is for you to run as fast as you can and hope you hit him before he downs you. And the archer is sort of trapped and can't move at all, but in a somewhat safe position, so he believes that bringing you down will make your companions leave fearing for their lives.

Solution 1:
The spellcaster can throw a Cure Moderate Wounds (Cure Light might not cut the cheese) at you and cure 5-21 from your HP, depending on the rolls, this can make all the difference in the world or none at all (and really, the none at all is the big problem). Also note that if he archer hits you for full damage on all four attacks, he deals more damage than the healer can heal.

Supposing average rolls from both sides, the caster will spend at least a 2nd level spells to keep you alive while you get there and Superstition might've messed you badly.

Solution 2:
The arcane guy casts a Silent Image of a 16x1ft wall in front of you (that moves with you), now the archer has to spend a standard or full action to "interact" with the wall at a distance and even qualify for the Will check to disbelieve it and be able to attack through it.

But even so, disbelieving the illusion only makes him know it's an illusion, he still sees the freaking wall, so he suddenly have to blindly guess your position and, even if he guesses it right, he has a 50% miss chance, making it very unlikely that you'll even be hit, let alone be hit 4 times so you die.

Now only a single 1st level spell was spent to keep you alive for the 2 rounds and Superstition didn't make a rat's behind difference since the spell affected your opponent, not you.

[Blyte]

Haste, Enlarge and other buffs are usually passed around in the beginning of combat, just hold your Rage a bit 'till you're buffed.

And yes, I know there are some times when getting healed can save your life, but you should have enough HP so that doesn't happen often and most spells that can truly save your life are the ones that make your opponent suck rather than heal you.


it's my job to rage and go donky kong, turning the oppositions world upside down before your archer scenario drops the arcane guy.. as I won't be the target of his arrows, it will be the frail guy in robes standing beside me.

often times you don't get to pre-buff before a fight and you have to do it on the fly.. I could see delaying my rage till haste is thrown on round one, but I am not delaying it for whole rounds of combat, and heals will be necessary in the later rounds when wave after wave of footmen reinforcements arrive preceeding the mini-boss captain of the guard.

[Larpus]

Well, it's all in the mix, not taking Superstition also opens the possibility of failing a Will save by that much and being mind-controlled, murdering everyone in your party. Happened to me once, I didn't murder the party, but I had to sit through the whole battle sleeping like a kitty.

It's one huge bet, I'm pretty sure that many people who have Superstition have come to points in the game where they said "Darn! I wish I didn't have this stupid power!", while others who don't have it must have come to some point where they failed a Will save and went "Dangit! If only I had Superstition...!"

It is a strong power, there's no way to deny it. However, it also comes with a big cost that, to me, it's worth it, for you, it's obviously not. It's all a gamble.

[grarrrg]

Alright, can we get a 'little' back on topic now?

Seriously, if Living Monolith (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/i-m/living-monolith) is allowed you should need to take 1 level of it.
This is non-negotiable.

You can take it as early as level 6 for the cost of 2 feats, a handful of skill points, and a tweak to your backstory. The feats are Endurance (bleh) and Iron Will (not awesome, but still decent for a Barb build).

What you get is 3/day Swift Action Enlarge Person, with a duration of 6 minutes.

Forget waiting until level 14 for Titan Mauler to go large.
Forget waiting for the casters to buff you.
Go large.
Now.

[Larpus]

You can take it as early as level 6 for the cost of 2 feats, a handful of skill points, and a tweak to your backstory. The feats are Endurance (bleh) and Iron Will (not awesome, but still decent for a Barb build).
On the upside, you needed Endurance to get Horizon Walker anyway, so at least it's being a less useless feat by allowing you to qualify for two PrCs instead of just one.

[Blyte]

hahaha a living monolith?

I am already a gambling addict and adopted by grubby barbarian dwarves, now I need to squeeze an egyptology fetish in there as well? ;)

--

and one more thing with the superstition rage power, say I get take down to 2 HP.. I can't leave rage without dropping myself to -10 at my level (6), so I have to stay enraged to live and pray at the end of the fight that someone can beat my will save and heal me?

I took the optomistic gambler trait so that going unconcious and losing my rage wouldn't kill me, at least for a d4 rounds my party can try and heal me back up, but superstition will still persist with optomistic gambler up as it is a morale bonus as well. superstition is just a death sentance.

[Larpus]

hahaha a living monolith?

I am already a gambling addict and adopted by grubby barbarian dwarves, now I need to squeeze an egyptology fetish in there as well? ;)

--

and one more thing with the superstition rage power, say I get take down to 2 HP.. I can't leave rage without dropping myself to -10 at my level (6), so I have to stay enraged to live and pray at the end of the fight that someone can beat my will save and heal me?

I took the optomistic gambler trait so that going unconcious and losing my rage wouldn't kill me, at least for a d4 rounds my party can try and heal me back up, but superstition will still persist with optomistic gambler up as it is a morale bonus as well. superstition is just a death sentance.
I know, I pray that doesn't ever happen to me with my Barbarian, so far I've been successful.

Btw, just one thing, in PF you only die if you drop to -Con, so if you have 18 Con, you only die at -18, not -10. Not a huge difference, but can be what separates the dead from the severely injuried.

[Blyte]

Think I am going to drop Spiked Destroyer and opt for Raging Death Blow instead.. Much as I love spiked destroyer, it's a swift action to get the attack (I think it should be a free action since you are already truckin over them and making them eat armor spikes) and unfortunately you only get one swift action before it starts to impinge on the rest of your action economy.

I think I should get a ton of rage accumulated with Raging Death Blow, since I should be the major DPS in our crew.

Are there any magic items that increase your bonus to to Overrun, besides strength items of course? (going to try and score a +2 str item at creation) or items that bump up your size category for the purpose of overrun?

with a +2 str item I will be at a nice round 20 base overrun CMB while raging, and I will have strength surge and auspicious mark to use as needed giving me a potential 26+1d6 CMB, in case a bull elephant needs toppling.

[Blyte]

one more thing to consider about superstition, it's a morale bonus same as the +2 will save bonus I get while raging, so that means at my level while raging it only will net me +1 to my will saves, since bonuses of the same type don't stack.. sure it would be +3 ref and fort as well, but the one that concerns me typically is Will.. as it keeps me from sleeping like a kitty during a fight or butchering the rest of my party then chillaxing with a mind flayer.

[grarrrg]

hahaha a living monolith?

I am already a gambling addict and adopted by grubby barbarian dwarves, now I need to squeeze an egyptology fetish in there as well? ;)


During your "Rebellious Teenage Years", you and a bunch of friends thought it would be a hoot to go to Egypt Osirion and get tattoos *ahem* 'stoned'.


Look at it like this, can you think of a better/faster/easier way for you to have 'in-class' enlarge person, WITHOUT losing Bab?

[Blyte]

I don't doubt that it is an efficient way to make me a better overrun machine, but I would lose some character credibility doing it, dipping 1 level into a prestige class, with gaining a power your soul motivation, is frowned upon at our table. Were I playing DDO, I would be all over doing something like that, but prestige classes are fairly significant to a character's story in pnp.

Being adopted by dwarves actually fits into my "titan mauler" concept, as dwarves already have special training and tactics for giants. The emphasis on overrun and gambling problem I am going to attribute to his time in the Dwarven Blood Bowl League (we are all blood bowl players.) My human is even going to have a dwarven surname, and savagely defend his adopted kin. He is shamed by his inability to grow a beard, and wears a beard-cozy his adopted mother knitted him. His name is Vern Ironbelly.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I am playing in a game with only 3 players and to amp up our power a bit the DM is giving our characters 1 feat every level.

I decided to make an Overrun Barbarian with the "Titan Mauler" class option. (on a side note: the alternate class options seem like they were written by a child with a crayon, some being a little better than others, but overall very fuzzy on the rules and most are just plain horrible)

......

Basically made this build to be a min/maxed abomination because my friends I play with were saying that the pathfinder Barbarian was not a viable class option. Looking forward to making the GM cry. Would love some critiques.

*spits soda all over computer (not really)*

You want to be super powerful and your taking Titan Mauler? Large sized weapons are basically +1 damage. Don't judge a book by it's cover.

[Blyte]

going from 2d6 to 3d6 equates to more than 1 damage, I also get reach with it (and I do have combat reflexes).. and the extra d6 equates to even more d6s when you factor in vital strikes. also at lvl 6 I use a large greatsword with no penalties, later I will use a huge greatsword with no penalties.. which is 12d6 damage at lvl 11 with improved vital strikes.

[Hiro Protagonest]

going from 2d6 to 3d6 equates to more than 1 damage, I also get reach with it (and I do have combat reflexes).. and the extra d6 equates to even more d6s when you factor in vital strikes. also at lvl 6 I use a large greatsword with no penalties, later I will use a huge greatsword with no penalties.. which is 12d6 damage at lvl 11 with improved vital strikes.

Okay, I guess I should've seen the table first, I thought it was 2d8. But where are you getting the reach from? Large creatures have reach, not large weapons.

[Blyte]

good point, I guess I was reading into the increased size category too much.. dang it just seems like a huge sword should be granting you reach... weird.

but I will get reach from titan mauler.... at lvl 14.... ::smallfrown:

[The Boz]

Of the various barbarians, only the core and Invulnerable Rager are any good. IMO.

[Hiro Protagonest]

but I will get reach from titan mauler.... at lvl 14.... ::smallfrown:

You pay a big price. For the effects if a 1st level spell that the wizard could cast on you...

[Blyte]

I just wish I could omit the first titan mauler class feature, I would much rather have fast movement than "big game hunter".. all the archetypes are poorly written and I think they had meant for big game hunter to actually scale up with lvl, but unfortunately poor editing and lack of errata have plagued that book.

but I think that the large weapons, shrinking opponent reach, and eventually large sized rage are all pretty neato.

I agree that invulnerable rager is a good one as well.

[Blyte]

You pay a big price. For the effects if a 1st level spell that the wizard could cast on you...

who's to say that you can't have the actual spell cast on you as well? it's only the "effects", not the actual spell.

[Hiro Protagonest]

who's to say that you can't have the actual spell cast on you as well? it's only the "effects", not the actual spell.

From the wording of Enlarge Person.

Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.

[Blyte]

ahh yes, it is a (Su) which is considered "magical" and "multiple magical effects do not stack"