Gold = Experience?

[olejars]

Okay, where does it say, if it does, that gaining treasure gives experience? Either I'm blind or my brain just skips over that part every time I pick up the PHB or DMG.

[Togath]

treasure never gives xp, nor should it.

[Yora]

There was only gold and no XP way back in the very first edition, I think. Some 30 years ago.

[HunterOfJello]

There is Wealth By Level which dictates the general amount of wealth that each character and group should have at each level. However, the two are completely separate and have no direct effect upon one another.

[Psyren]

I believe you're thinking of first edition...

[Kol Korran]

in 1E (the Red Box) you'd get XP worth of the gold you've found. in 2E it was dropped and never returned.

[Tankadin]

treasure never gives xp, nor should it.

Unless I'm mistaken, it did in prior editions, because the mindset was more about getting loot regardless of method. The idea now of getting XP for defeating a challenge, be it killing the monsters or convincing them to move to a different change is perhaps a more streamlined version of this older method.

Edit: Swordsaged like crazy. But it was mechanically sound.

[olejars]

Thanks for all the quick replies! I figured it didn't but I play with a couple of guys that started on 1e/AD&D. They mentioned it one time comparing my rewards akin to the old lady that paid Bart a nickle for mowing her jungle of a lawn.

[Telok]

comparing my rewards akin to the old lady that paid Bart a nickle for mowing her jungle of a lawn.

Well 3.5 rewards are stingy compared to AD&D. But then again you don't need 2.5 million xp to be a L20 wizard any more either.

[Jeraa]

Well 3.5 rewards are stingy compared to AD&D. But then again you don't need 2.5 million xp to be a L20 wizard any more either.

You do if you play Pathfinder. Well, 2.4 million. And that is the fast method. (Only need 5.3 million if using the slow method)

[deuxhero]

Note that 5 GP=1 XP by RAW though.

[Flickerdart]

Note that 5 GP=1 XP by RAW though.
Only in very specific cases, which are always explicitly outlined.

[Coidzor]

This reminds me of an old web article. (http://www.lanceandeskimo.com/paul/bill.shtml)

[TOZ]

I recall someone once mentioning a campaign they ran in which XP was a physical object to be collected. Kind of like the green orbs you see in video games. It was an interesting setting idea.

[Coidzor]

I recall someone once mentioning a campaign they ran in which XP was a physical object to be collected. Kind of like the green orbs you see in video games. It was an interesting setting idea.

Tael, right? At least there's a World of Prime campaign setting that's been promoted here that did something similar, and had some rather interesting ideas, including providing an in-universe explanation of HD and levels.

[GnomeGninjas]

in 1E (the Red Box) you'd get XP worth of the gold you've found. in 2E it was dropped and never returned.

In 2E thieves got extra experience based on gold they get.

[Dr.Epic]

treasure never gives xp, nor should it.

You've never played Munchkin.:smallwink:

But yeah, I don't see how a material substance like gold coins could transfer into an abstract concept like experience points.

[hewhosaysfish]

But yeah, I don't see how a material substance like gold coins could transfer into an abstract concept like experience points.

It's how you implement "quest xp" when you start from the assumption that the overriding motivation of every adventurer is gaining loot.
Of course, quest xp itself doesn't necessarily make sense. Why does a fighter who fights (for example) a pack of wolves to rescue a lost child learn fighting faster than fighter to fights a pack of wolves "just because"?

[Flickerdart]

Why, the power of heart, of course.

[Coidzor]

It hastens them towards their end-goal of being glorified baby-sitters of the Wizards' kid by getting to watch the party members with social skills interact with the kid to coax it into not annoying the heck out of them before they can return it to whoever will pay them the most for it.

[panaikhan]

I recall someone once mentioning a campaign they ran in which XP was a physical object to be collected. Kind of like the green orbs you see in video games. It was an interesting setting idea.

In one quirky campaign I ran, XP materialised in the form of 'coins' of various denominations. Players could then put these coins into arcane vending machines, to increase their level.

[Ravens_cry]

This does have certain possibilities. In the video game Dark Souls, said souls are both an in-game currency and a XP system. It does create a strategic question in that game of "Do get better stuff or do I get intrinsically better?"
On the other hand, having it be actual gold feels a little silly.
What if someone steals from you?
If you lose enough to lose a level, do you actually get weaker, lose hit points, get less capable, would a wizard no longer able to cast certain spells? It seems rather odd that such a loss would come from losing mere currency.

[panaikhan]

This does have certain possibilities. In the video game Dark Souls, said souls are both an in-game currency and a XP system. It does create a strategic question in that game of "Do get better stuff or do I get intrinsically better?"
On the other hand, having it be actual gold feels a little silly.
What if someone steals from you?
If you lose enough to lose a level, do you actually get weaker, lose hit points, get less capable, would a wizard no longer able to cast certain spells? It seems rather odd that such a loss would come from losing mere currency.

The easiest way to look at that, is you either spend the stuff on cool items, or spend it on yourself. Either way, it has been exchanged for something else, and only the 'cool stuff' can be stolen...

[Diefje]

Sure people could steal it, but that just makes you either spend it or stash it. If you're worried about thieves, invest in thing that can't get stolen or is less likely to get stolen.

Just imagine every slain monster exploding in a massive shower of gold pieces... Mmmm gold

[Coidzor]

Instead of buying a sword, buy the ability to have part of you become a sword or to create a sword, for instance.

Or better stats.

I recall Godskook saying something along the lines of
'3.Additional point-buy may be 'bought' at the rate of current point-buy squared in experience. For example, going from 30 to 31 point-buy costs 900xp. New points must be spent immediately. To increase high ability scores, you must buy all the points at once. Maximum bought point-buy is your current ECL + 30.' as one of his house rules around these parts not too too long ago.

Caught my eye, to be sure, hence why I copied and pasted it into a word file for things that were bouncing around in my head as ideas that I might alter to make a greater whole.

[Ravens_cry]

The easiest way to look at that, is you either spend the stuff on cool items, or spend it on yourself. Either way, it has been exchanged for something else, and only the 'cool stuff' can be stolen...
Yes, but how does that happen? Souls get a pass for being pseudo-mystical mumbo-jumbo magicobabel, but gold is a concrete object, one we see just about every day, can hold in your hands.
I know it may sound strange, but things that have actual known properties feel weird and wrong when those properties change much more than something with unknown properties or is fabricated and made-up.

Sure people could steal it, but that just makes you either spend it or stash it. If you're worried about thieves, invest in thing that can't get stolen or is less likely to get stolen.

Just imagine every slain monster exploding in a massive shower of gold pieces... Mmmm gold
Mage: "Oh gods dang It, My stocks have crashed!"
"How do you know?"
Mage:"Because all I can cast is Prestidigitation!"
It might work for a short term, parody or experimental campaign, but breaks my brain too much for something long-term or meant to be taken seriously.

[tyckspoon]

Mage: "Oh gods dang It, My stocks have crashed!"
"How do you know?"
Mage:"Because all I can cast is Prestidigitation!"
It might work for a short term, parody or experimental campaign, but breaks my brain too much for something long-term or meant to be taken seriously.

Most of the xp-as-physical-item suggestions I've seen include some means of absorbing or locking it into yourself; before you do that, it's just stuff you're carrying. Valuable stuff, comparable to gold or magical components, but still just stuff- it's not part of your powers yet, and you won't become weaker for losing it; you only lose the potential of what you could have spent the money/xp on, which isn't all that different from getting robbed in the default situation where the 'only' thing you can spend your GP on is ludicrously powerful magic.

If your GP stocks actually do directly cause/are your XP as well.. well, you'd have to build the setting around that. Reliable secure storage, either building it or hiring somebody to do it, would be a Big Thing in that world for anybody powerful/wealthy enough to not be able to carry their levels on them. You'd probably have a class of people who became high level purely from taking a percentage to safeguard other peoples' levels. And there's the possibility of XP loans.. not strong enough to beat your foes? No problem, borrow a level, beat them up, and pay back the interest with the xpmoney you got from their bodies!

[Ravens_cry]

Then use something other than gold, because gold is a known, real thing and therefore unsuitable in my opinion, as mentioned in the excused portion of the post.

[DDogwood]

I don't think gold as XP necessarily means that the amount of gold you possess is your XP - rather, the amount of gold you gain through adventuring is your XP. So you don't get more XP for investing in businesses, just for doing stuff that adventurers would do anyway.

I liked the old gold=XP thing, personally. I saw it more as the other way around, though - characters should get treasure equal to the XP that they earn. It's basically a way to help DMs maintain the gold-per-level guidelines without as much paperwork.

[flabort]

If you keeping around the gold and not spending it is what defines your level/experience, that's pretty silly, yah.

But say you paid gold to a master swordsman, who taught you how to swing a sword more effectively? You wouldn't be able to spend it on Phat Lewts, but you wouldn't worry about it getting stolen. So, it's still "Do I spend my money on the sweet sword, or do I become better?", without the silly "Oops, I spent money, so now I'm less strong".

Of course, this in turn has problems: Fighter A pays fighter B, Fighter A gets stronger. Fighter B pays Fighter A, Fighter B gets stronger. In the end, they have the same amount of money they started with, but are much more buff (Think of this as friendly sparing, though, if a bit silly).

[Ravens_cry]

Of course, this in turn has problems: Fighter A pays fighter B, Fighter A gets stronger. Fighter B pays Fighter A, Fighter B gets stronger. In the end, they have the same amount of money they started with, but are much more buff (Think of this as friendly sparing, though, if a bit silly).
So . . .Ferengi Sparring?:smalltongue: