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ericgrau
2011-10-27, 10:59 PM
This PrC combines 2 older concepts I've had, but the original concepts aren't important. I like having options but I've played casters to death and the other classes I like to play always seem short on options in spite of my efforts. My goal is a sort of jack-of-all-trades gish, with lots of powers and abilities to toy with yet without excessive book-keeping.

An Imbued may be a sort of artificially induced magical knight, a solo adventurer training for all challenges, or someone tainted strongly with magic from birth or at an early age. Their spontaneous abilities and mobility-focused skill set make them unwilling to be tied down, so adventuring comes easily to them. Often they are impatient and eager to act, though many others are merely diligent. Unlike a bard, an imbued plays a main role rather than a support role. Thus he works well in smaller groups, when too many allies are already playing support, to fill a hated missing role in a party without focusing on it, when the player is unsure what he wants to be, or if the player simply wants to do everything. As always, PEACH.

The Imbued

Hit Die: d6

Requirements:

Able to cast arcane spells without preparation.
Able to cast divine spells without preparation.
Trapfinding class feature.
Proficiency with all martial weapons.


Class Skills: The Imbued's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge(Arcana) (Int), Knowledge (Local) (Int), Knowledge(Religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex)
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier

{table]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Spells Per Day
1|0|2|0|2|Second Nature Metamagic, Shared Energy|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
2|1|3|0|3||+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
3|2|3|1|3|Bonus Metamagic Feat|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
4|3|4|1|4||+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
5|3|4|1|4|Second Nature Metamagic|-
6|4|5|2|5||+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
7|5|5|2|5|Bonus Metamagic Feat|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
8|6|6|2|6||+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
9|6|6|3|6|Second Nature Metamagic|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
10|7|7|3|7||+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
[/table]

Second Nature Metamagic
At 1st, 5th and 9th level the Imbued may apply metamagic feats to his spells more easily. Each time he gains this ability, he selects silent spell, still spell or extend spell. All his spells are treated as if cast using this feat and neither their spell level nor casting time increases. He must still have the appropriate metamagic feat to use this ability. Or he may instead choose to treat spells with swift and immediate casting times as if they were 1 spell level lower (to a minimum of 0), including for the purpose of selecting his spells known. If this changes an existing known spell, he may select a new spell of its level to replace it. If this causes his known spells on the lower level to exceed the number of spells known allotted to him, he must lose a known spell of his choice from that level. If he selects this last option and somehow gains the ability to quicken spells, the adjusted level for his quickened spells becomes 1 lower for a total increase of 3.

The same option may not be selected twice for Second Nature Metamagic. Your DM may select other similar feats (utility feats appropriate for a gish) that may be eligible for Second Nature Metamagic.

Shared Energy
The Imbued adds up his spells per day, including bonus spells, from his arcane and divine spellclasting class to determine his total spells per day for each level. He may use these spells per day to cast spells from either class rather than tracking each half separately. If he does not have a spell known of a certain level in one class, he does not gain any, but he may use these spell slots to cast spells from that class that have been adjusted by metamagic feats. Additionally, his caster level for both classes equals the higher of the two caster levels from each class. Finally most feats or special abilities that apply to either his divine or arcane casting apply to both instead, at the DM's discretion.

Bonus Feats
At 3rd and 7th level the Imbued gains a bonus metamagic feat.

Other comments: All the dead levels including the last one grant dual spellcasting progression, a point of BAB and +1 to 2 saves, so I suppose it evens out. By being a gish who uses buffs and utility spells outside of combat, plus having the gish-friendly Second Nature Metamagic options, I'm hoping this PrC will avoid typical theurge issues where you pick between 2 weaker options in combat. I realize the player loses one of his focuses at level 15 when he exits the PrC, but this is the same time where buff-stacking level 6+ spells from two different classes on top of medium BAB could get problematic.

Second Nature Metamagic is a rather roundabout way to select between armored casting, earlier access to certain spells, becoming a better buffer, or becoming more stealthy when casting. For the last option I should also note that silence + free silent spell combine very well.

Grod_The_Giant
2011-10-27, 11:11 PM
Thoughts:

There's going to be a ridiculous amount of MAD going on here, as you'll need physical stats (at least until you get Polymorph), Wisdom (for divine casting), and Intelligence/Charisma (for arcane). Then again, I suppose that's part of the point.
I'm pretty sure I can get into this class at 3rd level- Favored Soul 1/Beguiler 1 should cover all the prereqs, provided you pick a god with a martial favored weapon. Maybe not even then- I think the Beguiler gives you rapier proficiency. You might want to require 2nd level casting and Sneak Attack die.
A one-level dip lets you ignore arcane spell failure completely, thanks to the ability to automatically still spells... although given all the other prereqs, that's not necessarily a bad thing.
The hit die is awfully low for anyone who wants to enter melee.
I like the ability to cast swift spells at lower levels.
It still looks quite powerful, even if you drop another caster level on rogue. You're only one-two levels behind on spellcasting, casting arcane spells in heavy armor, full advancement in two classes, and getting good abilities on top of that.

ericgrau
2011-10-27, 11:17 PM
Oops, martial weapon proficiency clarified to require all martial weapons. Nice catch. Early entry via beguiler/etc. is fine, since those classes have other drawbacks to make up for their versatility. I can require 6 ranks of spellcraft and/or other skills (starting the PrC at level 4) if you think there's some dastardly trick I'm not aware of. The hit die is the same as eldritch knight and only a step below cleric, since buff stacking, armor, swift invisibility, false life, etc., etc. is expected.

jiriku
2011-10-27, 11:49 PM
This is, oddly, both a very strong and very weak class.

It's hard to get into imbued without enduring several levels of suckage. If you want to bring Tier 2 casting assets to the table (favored soul and sorcerer), you need to light a caster level on fire to get martial weapon proficiency and trapfinding (via ranger + trapfinding ACF), then burn another on imbued 1. Plus your casting progression is already slower than cleric/wizard. You'll be ECL 7, as a favored soul 1/sorcerer 1/ranger 1/imbued 4, before you get 2nd level spells. This is an unsavory state of affairs.

A better entry might be delayed, as in favored soul 8/sorcerer 1/ranger 1/imbued 10. This gives you solid functionality in a base class to help get you "over the hump". However, this gives you much less opportunity to make the imbued levels a dynamic and important part of your build.

I'd suggest some immediate relief to ease the pain. For example, shared energy might allow you to stack levels in your two casting classes when determining total caster level. Thus, for arcane x plus divine y plus imbued z, caster level for both classes would be figured as x+y+(z-1). You should consider deferring the lost spellcasting level from imbued 1 back to level 3 or even level 5. Heck, you might even dispense with it entirely.

I'd also support removing either the martial weapon proficiency or the trapfinding requirement, as that will broaden the variety of possible entry classes, and diversity of options is good.

Shared energy also poses a problem, in that borrowing spell slots from a higher-level classes and putting metamagic versions of spells from the lower-level class might result in attempting to cast a spell that you can't actually cast because your caster level isn't high enough. For example, favored soul 8/sorcerer 1/ranger 1/imbued 10 casts as a 10th-level sorcerer, but can attempt to cast repeat arcane fusion from an 8th level favored soul spell slot even though it lacks the requisite 16th level arcane spellcasting to do so. The stacked caster level approach would fix this, or you could add some specific restrictions to prevent non sequitors.

Thought: if someone plays a gish, they're not doing it to be an item crafter. Instead of a bonus metamagic or item creation feat, consider offering a bonus metamagic or fighter bonus feat.

ericgrau
2011-10-28, 12:00 PM
Lost caster level moved to 5 to relieve early game issues, as I see how essential 2nd (or higher) level spells are for buff/utility/swift spells: false life, swift invisibility, a buff maybe. Web and silence are nice too for other reasons. 1st level has mage armor, feather fall, bless and cure light wounds (ok in low level emergencies). So CL 6-7 until 2nd level spells now, not too horrible I think. Either way I timed the lost caster level with Second Nature Metamagic on purpose, because someone might use Second Nature for early spell access or free metamagic and so mitigate some of the problem. And to temp people to still eat the lost CL and stay with the PrC long enough for free still spell and earlier swift spells (plus more if you have more books and DM approval).

I had item creation because gishes like gear, but lost caster level, spontaneous, low book-keeping casters aren't so hot at crafting. So, good point, nixed. I might look into fighter bonus feats on top of metamagic rather than as an alternative, since the PrC only gets 2 feats and it needs feats desperately to use Second Nature Metamagic.

The ranger ACF is actually a sneaky trick I didn't consider. Lack of heavy armor proficiency makes you pay for it in melee, but I can see it tempting archers. Hmm I think it's ok, because false life/vampiric touch/stoneskin melee tanking is also a strong option even with the lost caster level. Especially if you cast silence on yourself and charge the poor caster (even better with Second Nature Silent Spell, but that's not essential). Even if you're of the school of high level AC dumping, -4 AC is at minimum 22% more hits received and probably more than that. You can essentially pay 3 feats for proficiency (2 plus the fighter bonus feat or rage you didn't get), but that's also expensive.

I'm confused about what's wrong with casting a repeated 5th level spell with only 11 levels of arcane casting. Sure your sorcerer level isn't that hot, but your overall level is. It's not like incantatrix abuse even if you toss in a little still/silent spell. Heck if you were thinking long term instead of early slump you might have mystic theurge or eldritch knight (or abjurant champion) levels instead of more favored soul.

jiriku
2011-10-28, 07:36 PM
I'm confused about what's wrong with casting a repeated 5th level spell with only 11 levels of arcane casting. Sure your sorcerer level isn't that hot, but your overall level is. It's not like incantatrix abuse even if you toss in a little still/silent spell. Heck if you were thinking long term instead of early slump you might have mystic theurge or eldritch knight (or abjurant champion) levels instead of more favored soul.

There's nothing wrong with doing it, but the imbued can't actually do it. Per PH 171, "You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question...." Personally, I'm all for it, as it's a neat way to make an assymmetric dual-casting build work better. But to do it, you'll need to match your caster levels in the two progressions somehow.

deuxhero
2011-10-29, 01:47 AM
FYI:"Imbued" is the term for WoD (forget if NWoD or OWoD) hunters of supernatural beings.

ericgrau
2011-11-06, 10:31 PM
Shared energy updated to let the imbued use the higher of his two caster levels for both sides. It makes sense and resolves any technical issues. I also added that pretty much all other feats and special abilities apply equally to both sides.

I'll make a short comment on the skills since they may have snuck under most people's noses (no pun intended). I consider it unusual to put survival, tumble and trapfinding together. Normally this takes multi-classing as it fills multiple roles, but I allowed it on purpose as part of the class' ability to fill whatever role or adventure solo. Most of the skills are based on getting around (mobility or recon) as a sort of wandering knight, except for a couple knowledges to fill the fluff.

Veklim
2011-11-07, 06:48 AM
A very interesting approach to gish management. Early entry isn't a problem as far as I see it, if you try too hard to hit it asap, you risk underpowering yourself, but that's on the player's head, not the designer's.


Heck if you were thinking long term instead of early slump you might have mystic theurge or eldritch knight (or abjurant champion) levels instead of more favored soul.
My thoughts exactly, even True Necromancer could be on the cards (although the build would be a little cumbersome at best!). The only thing this class actually has to worry about imo is the possibility of early access to other PrCs, feats and options. You can hit 2nd level spontaneous arcane and divine casting at level 7 this way, only a level behind a dedicated preperation build, and you have more mundane versatility to make up for it.

As it stands now though, I reckon it's playable. I'd certainly allow it for any experienced player of mine who wanted a go.