ZOMBIES! Curse or Infection?

[missmvicious]

Okay so I have spent a LOT of time thinking about zombies. Various ways in which to fight them, how that plan would change now that I have a son, various ways zombies could come into being and so on. And one of the questions that I have never really found my answer to is this:
Which is better the cursed zombie or the infected zombie?
Both undoubtably have their strengths.
Which one do you guys think is the better/more scary and why?

[golentan]

Infected zombie is scarier. It can be more easily transmitted (great, you knocked his head off. Did you scrape your knuckle doing it? Yes? Everyone, please welcome our newest member of Club Ded). It also for me raises all kinds of horrible questions about what moment the victim loses consciousness and the like. Curses imply certain traits which, for me, render the zombies less scary. For one thing, cursed zombies in fiction are often a one time raise, not infectious (I know there's other interpretations out there, but that's one I've seen a lot). For another, I find magic-kill + possession by deliberate malice a lot cleaner than having my muscles used as puppets by an opportunistic parasite by sheer chance. It's part of my nature, but I don't have so much trouble with the idea of being killed as I do with just dying. My 2 cp.

[Coidzor]

Infected become ridiculous and unworkable in both directions if you actually think about them, because of blood mist and physics.

Thus, curse works better, because at least it's being up front about it.

All dead things rise and become almost like fleshy T-1000s, slowly reforming after having their brains splattered against the wall. The only recourse is to separate the head from the body and secure it so that it can't reattach.

All the while they're moaning. Forever.

Old people and sick people amongst survivors are constantly monitored/have their bodies largely destroyed before death so they're easier to deal with when the inevitable occurs.

Pretty dark and scary.

[kpenguin]

Cursed zombies are more realistic.

[Bhu]

Okay so I have spent a LOT of time thinking about zombies. Various ways in which to fight them, how that plan would change now that I have a son, various ways zombies could come into being and so on. And one of the questions that I have never really found my answer to is this:
Which is better the cursed zombie or the infected zombie?
Both undoubtably have their strengths.
Which one do you guys think is the better/more scary and why?




Depends on your point of view I guess. Infected are the more problematic to deal with. If it's a viral infection you have major, major problems, but there is always the remote possibility of a cure someday, and it means they aren't really undead. It would quickly circle the globe, but you could hope the disease eventually kills them if you can hold out long enough. Then it's a race to find a cure.


Cursed means you're dealing with the supernatural. You'll have less zombies because you need a Bocor to make them, and there are only so many of them limiting the problem to that area. But if you want to put the zombies to rest you have to hold them down, fill their mouth with salt, and sew their lips shut. Also Voodoo is real, and there are Loas who actively dislike the living. Humanity has an active supernatural enemy. Good luck with that.

[thubby]

cursed zombies tend to be overly arbitrary in how they work/spread/etc. and more often than not, the way the magic works, or where it comes from, is never addressed.
leaving the whole reason for zombies as "cuz we needed zombies"

also, involving a magic system means there should be an opposing force. so wtf? wheres the holy cleric turning undead on these things?

infections have basic rules everyone gets, and creates neat social situations.

[Coidzor]

leaving the whole reason for zombies as "cuz we needed zombies"

That's kind of always the reason for zombies in any work of fiction. :smalltongue: Besides, the why of zombies is pretty much irrelevant even if it's an infection.

[Objection]

I think thubby sums it up nicely.

[Carry2]

Infected become ridiculous and unworkable in both directions if you actually think about them, because of blood mist and physics.
If the virus/parasite is concentrated in the saliva, it might require a direct bite to transmit, but then fingernail scratches and the like wouldn't matter much. But yeah, that always bugs me about close kills- sooner or later a speck of gore is going to lodge itself in some uninfected nostril or open mouth. You'd have to kill from at least several yards away, preferably with a face-mask.

What I always find weird about zombies is that, despite giving very visible signs of physical decomposition, they seem very resistant to rotting completely. I mean, if the curse/virus prevented tissue decay, it should prevent it outright (aside, perhaps, from pallor/dehydration.) If they're not supernatural, how do they keep moving around for months and months without feeding? There's a basic problem with thermodynamics there.

I reckon 28 Days Later handled the 'scientifically plausible' zombie best- the victims aren't actually dead, just afflicted with super-rabies, a single drop of blood is enough for transmission, and they starve to death inside a few weeks.

[thubby]

That's kind of always the reason for zombies in any work of fiction. :smalltongue: Besides, the why of zombies is pretty much irrelevant even if it's an infection.

the why is hugely important. and every story should have in-universe reasons for things happening as a matter of course.

28 days later is an outbreak and the world reacts as such. quarantine protocols, doctors get real important real fast, and the populace gets isolationist because people bring the risk of infection.

with magic zombies, the things are just a weapon. it breaks down into a military affair. there's someone causing this, and we need to go pump them full of lead.

[llamamushroom]

Personally, I think infection zombies are more frightening (and, depending on how you handwave it, can be quasi-pseudo-realistic-esque - for example, super rabies), because it's more understandable. Wait, that seems self-contradictory. Human beings understand diseases, whether viral, bacterial, parasitical, whatever. The jump from "we know this thing and are in control" to "we know this thing and are not in control" (to the eventual "we know this thing and AAARGHGETITOFFME") is what terrifies me.

If there are curse zombies, it has to be a sudden everything-that-dies kind of curse. Sort of like in the backstory to Ferren and the Angel, or that Silverclawshift campaign about Hallowe'en. Anyway, if it's anything less, it just needs too much suspension of disbelief.

Yes, I find the concept of everything becoming a zombie more believable than a necromancer raising them. I am strange. :smalltongue:

[Carry2]

with magic zombies, the things are just a weapon. it breaks down into a military affair. there's someone causing this, and we need to go pump them full of lead.
If you're talking about a large-scale impersonal army of the anonymous dead, yeah, that tends to be a problem. But raising the dead *can* be more like summoning and binding demons- a faustian pact involving a certain amount of quid-pro-quo. And when the deal in question is with a dead person who has old friends, relations, and enemies among the living... then things can get very very interesting on a local level.

[Carry2]

Personally, I think infection zombies are more frightening (and, depending on how you handwave it, can be quasi-pseudo-realistic-esque - for example, super rabies), because it's more understandable. Wait, that seems self-contradictory. Human beings understand diseases, whether viral, bacterial, parasitical, whatever. The jump from "we know this thing and are in control" to "we know this thing and are not in control" (to the eventual "we know this thing and AAARGHGETITOFFME") is what terrifies me.
Ooh, speaking of which- did anybody else see Contagion recently? Good film. The MEV virus had a couple of advantages, though, compared with zombie outbreaks- relatively low mortality, airborne or surface transmission, and somewhat less incentive to apply shotguns to the infected.

Do you know what your sin is, anonymous Chinese chef? ...It's Pride.

[Starwulf]

I would think the Infected would pose the greater risk, just because of the sheer amount of them you'll come across at any one point in time. However, in small groups, or even 1v1 battles, a Cursed zombie would be much nastier to deal with, they tend to have strength far and beyond what a normal zombie has, and often has a modicum of intelligence left inside of it(or restored to it, whatever).

[Coidzor]

the why is hugely important. and every story should have in-universe reasons for things happening as a matter of course.

Zombieland. Explain how the Why is important there, and hugely so. Because if you're claiming every story should, you've got a lot of room for your position to be made untenable with


with magic zombies, the things are just a weapon. it breaks down into a military affair. there's someone causing this, and we need to go pump them full of lead.

You mean like in Night of the Living Dead or others where Hell was just full or there similarly was an impersonal force rather than a human actor masterminding a scheme? Because I rather doubt the capability of humans to just go down there and pump the metaphysical keepers of the dead full of lead so that they'll take more vacancies.


I reckon 28 Days Later handled the 'scientifically plausible' zombie best- the victims aren't actually dead, just afflicted with super-rabies, a single drop of blood is enough for transmission, and they starve to death inside a few weeks.

Indeed, then got ruined by the sequel. The only real problem is that things like 28 Days Later run into questions of What Measure Is A Zombie.

[The_Admiral]

Infected become ridiculous and unworkable in both directions if you actually think about them, because of blood mist and physics.

Thus, curse works better, because at least it's being up front about it.

All dead things rise and become almost like fleshy T-1000s, slowly reforming after having their brains splattered against the wall. The only recourse is to separate the head from the body and secure it so that it can't reattach.

All the while they're moaning. Forever.

Old people and sick people amongst survivors are constantly monitored/have their bodies largely destroyed before death so they're easier to deal with when the inevitable occurs.

Pretty dark and scary.

Or it could be dark and funny http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fido_%28film%29

[thubby]

Zombieland. Explain how the Why is important there, and hugely so. Because if you're claiming every story should, you've got a lot of room for your position to be made untenable with

its parody. parody plays by a completely different rule set, since being nonsensical is often funny.


You mean like in Night of the Living Dead or others where Hell was just full or there similarly was an impersonal force rather than a human actor masterminding a scheme? Because I rather doubt the capability of humans to just go down there and pump the metaphysical keepers of the dead full of lead so that they'll take more vacancies.

that crapsack explanation is a major criticism of the movie, and even then it's the ravings of a mad preacher, not necessarily the truth.
if it IS some "keeper of the dead" shtick, where are the keepers of the living?
if there are none, why havent they done this sooner?
if the afterlife actually is full, why does it make zombies? are the dead possessing bodies? if thats the case, why the hell are they eating people?! i dont know about you, but if i were something resembling alive again, i'd go say hi to the people i knew in life, not start butchering people.

[Knight9910]

Nanite zombies are best.

[Eldan]

Infected become ridiculous and unworkable in both directions if you actually think about them, because of blood mist and physics.


I probably spend an unhealthy amount of time thinking about the mechanics of zombie infection, but I think the best bet is a fungal infection attacking the brain. Something like this. (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/03/pictures/110303-zombie-ants-fungus-new-species-fungi-bugs-science-brazil/)

You even get an excuse to have the infected sprout creepy fungus tendrils.

[Brother Oni]

I reckon 28 Days Later handled the 'scientifically plausible' zombie best- the victims aren't actually dead, just afflicted with super-rabies, a single drop of blood is enough for transmission, and they starve to death inside a few weeks.

That bit's always confused me (I haven't seen the film). If they're infected with super-rabies and have reached the later stages of the disease with hyper-aggression, then they'd have trouble swallowing and hence drinking.

If they can't drink then they should be dead in a matter of days from dehydration, not weeks from starvation.

[dehro]

having just re-watched Zombieland yesterday, it is rather hard to find any kind of zombie really scary.. or to even thinking about it with a serious hat on

Cursed zombies are more realistic.

not helping... the hat now looks more and more like a top hat with viking horns sticking out of it...
in fact, the statement is so intrinsecly funny when taken out of context, that I might just go ahead and steal it..or at least quote it. oh, wait, I just did that

[smart stuff]
also, involving a magic system means there should be an opposing force. so wtf? wheres the holy cleric turning undead on these things?
[more smart stuff]
the rest, I agree with.. but this.. no.
who said that one kind of magic requires an opposing force to be there to work? physics kinda works that way..magic not necessarily... because it's magic.
we might like it better when there's some sort of "order and reason" to it..in fact, I do as well.. but that would remove the fear/scare/crapthypants effect once you "get" why what is happening is, in fact, happening..
so..I'm gonna go with "I believe infection zombies to be a more likely event than magical/cursed zombies.. but the latter would scare me a whole lot more".

[Coidzor]

its parody. parody plays by a completely different rule set, since being nonsensical is often funny.

On the contrary, if it's essential to the base thing, the parody needs to address it to be a proper parody.


if it IS some "keeper of the dead" shtick, where are the keepers of the living?

You've never heard of the "The supernatural exists, but only the bad stuff, not the good or neutral stuff" approach to the universe before? Pretty much a staple of things that deal with the occult, as it becomes hard to have devils running around doing as they please for long if they have an opposite opposing force that's either equal or greater in power to them.


if there are none, why havent they done this sooner?
Well, that's rather handily handled by it being an arbitrary limit being reached.


if the afterlife actually is full, why does it make zombies? are the dead possessing bodies? if thats the case, why the hell are they eating people?! i dont know about you, but if i were something resembling alive again, i'd go say hi to the people i knew in life, not start butchering people.

You mean other than that there's no story in it? As I said, best thing about supernatural zombies is that they're not kidding themselves and patronizing the audience. They're just delivering the zombies.

Because an infection that can be analyzed enough for an info dump enough to please you is really going to take out all of civilization. :smalltongue:


If they can't drink then they should be dead in a matter of days from dehydration, not weeks from starvation.

Even if they can but have no inclination or instinct to drink they'd still be dying in a matter of days.

In this regard, the Zombieland zombies are actually a bit better, as they're actually shown scavenging for food in the absence of humans to nom.

Of course, it still fails the essential question of why the zombies don't eat one another, or at least why it's not only the people who get infected and get away who are turned, anyone they actually catch is just stripped to the bone.


not helping... the hat now looks more and more like a top hat with viking horns sticking out of it...
in fact, the statement is so intrinsecly funny when taken out of context, that I might just go ahead and steal it..or at least quote it. oh, wait, I just did that

Really. You've never before run into all of the many ways that trying to be "scientific" with zombies just ends up contradictory or borked upon examination that the supernatural is the simpler, more straightforward, and more consistent answer?

[thubby]

the rest, I agree with.. but this.. no.
who said that one kind of magic requires an opposing force to be there to work? physics kinda works that way..magic not necessarily... because it's magic.


if there were an actively malevolent force from beyond mortal reason or some such, you then have to answer why it didnt annihilate us a thousand years ago.

[H Birchgrove]

I would probably watch a curse zombie film simply because I'm fed up with viral zombie films that repeat what has been done since I Am Legend (the novel) and Night of the Living Dead. The best zombie fic' is The Black Smurfs though.

It boils down what message or what "point" the author(s) is (are) trying to make. Because I'm also tired of stories about the Evulz of science, the military-industrial complex and the Guvernment. The latest (official) adaptation of I Am Legend took the cake with having the zombie/mutant infection originating from a cure against cancer.

[GrlumpTheElder]

The latest (official) adaptation of I Am Legend took the cake with having the zombie/mutant infection originating from a cure against cancer.

And the British doctor who created it was a Dr. Crippin. Yeah, because that's really going to end well...

I think that one likely possible Zombie Cause could be biochemical agents, such as DC2 from Planet Terror. Not THAT is a good film!

[Xuc Xac]

For one thing, cursed zombies in fiction are often a one time raise, not infectious.

Only if you mean "D&D" when you say "fiction".


Cursed means you're dealing with the supernatural. You'll have less zombies because you need a Bocor to make them, and there are only so many of them limiting the problem to that area.

Who says you need a Bokor to make them? That's like saying you can't have a movie with a green fire-breathing dragon because green dragons don't breathe fire. There are limitless possibilities for supernatural zombies. They don't have to be individually summoned by an evil Afro-Caribbean shaman.


also, involving a magic system means there should be an opposing force. so wtf? wheres the holy cleric turning undead on these things?


That's an unsupported and unwarranted assumption. Why does the world need to be so dualistic? Not every setting is (or needs to be) designed like a D&D campaign with "balanced" factions.


with magic zombies, the things are just a weapon. it breaks down into a military affair. there's someone causing this, and we need to go pump them full of lead.

That's another unsupported assumption. Sometimes bad things just happen. There doesn't have to be someone behind it.



if it IS some "keeper of the dead" shtick, where are the keepers of the living?


Again, why do you assume the world must be a dualistic balance of good and evil? That's completely unnecessary. Look at the Cthulhu Mythos for an enduring fictional setting where there are plenty of bad guys and no good guys to counterbalance them.


That bit's always confused me (I haven't seen the film). If they're infected with super-rabies and have reached the later stages of the disease with hyper-aggression, then they'd have trouble swallowing and hence drinking.

If they can't drink then they should be dead in a matter of days from dehydration, not weeks from starvation.

What confused me is why a bunch of hyper-aggression psychotic killers didn't see each other as targets. The explanation offered doesn't address that problem. The rage zombies shouldn't have lived long enough to die of starvation or thirst. Explaining the zombies almost always falls down. Either the explanation limits the things the zombies can do (and thus limits their usefulness as hazards in a zombie movie) OR you use the zombies the way you want and ignore when it clashes with your explanation (and thus distract from the impact you're trying to make).


You've never heard of the "The supernatural exists, but only the bad stuff, not the good or neutral stuff" approach to the universe before?

Yeah. There's the Cthulhu Mythos that I mentioned above. And also the real world. Philosophers and theologians have been struggling to answer "The Problem of Evil" for thousands of years. (If you haven't heard of it, it's the question "If God exists, is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent, why does he let bad things happen to good people?")


if there were an actively malevolent force from beyond mortal reason or some such, you then have to answer why it didnt annihilate us a thousand years ago.

Why do you have to answer that? When a masked serial killer starts chopping up teenagers in a slasher movie, do you feel it's necessary to explain why he didn't kill anybody the year before?

I've seen a lot of zombie movies. I can't think of a single one that was improved by explaining the origin of the zombies (and quite a few that would have been better if they hadn't mentioned the origin because their explanation was dumb).

Zombies aren't a puzzle to be solved. Zombies are a natural disaster that you can shoot in the face with a shotgun. You don't need to know why there's a flood/fire/storm/zombie uprising. The important thing is that the disaster is there and you have to deal with it. In a zombie story, the zombies aren't the enemy. The zombies are just an environmental hazard to keep you trapped in the same place with your real enemy: the other survivors. Almost everyone who dies in a zombie movie dies because someone else did something stupid or selfish or petty. The reason that "Night of the Living Dead" or "Dawn of the Dead" are horror while "Zombieland" or "Shaun of the Dead" are comedy is not because the zombies work differently. The difference is in the behavior of the human protagonists. In the horror movies, the people are back-stabbing bastards. In the comedies, the protagonists work together and don't betray each other.

To paraphrase the Buddha: "When an animated corpse shuffles toward you to devour your flesh, do not ask 'Who was this person in life? Where was he born? Who educated him? Did he have a lover who misses him? What career did he engage in? Did he have any hopes or ambitions that now go unfulfilled? Is he going to eat my brain or my flesh or is he just going to bite me and then ignore me when I become like him?' or any other questions. Those questions do not matter. What is important is that a zombie stands before you now, so shoot it in the head."

[dehro]

if there were an actively malevolent force from beyond mortal reason or some such, you then have to answer why it didnt annihilate us a thousand years ago.

because it couldn't be arsed? because it was busy sneak-farting at religious gatherings? because it didn't exist before the day it started pouring out zombies? because there isn't a consciousness behind it but just a casuality of random events that collide catastrophically? because we've accidentally woken it up by sacrificing 666 Ipads on a bonfire made of candyfloss?

[Knight9910]

I agree with Dehro. Just because a being is supernatural and has lots of power doesn't mean he might not still be a lazy jerk. Maybe he always kinda wanted to destroy humanity but just couldn't be bothered to get up off the couch. Then one day he finally got the great idea "hey, wait, why don't I just make a bunch of zombies and have them kill humanity instead!"

[golentan]

I don't mean just dnd. I've read a fair number of short stories involving voodoo zombies or guardian spirits that reanimate bodies or the like. Enough that I feel safe in saying infection zombies by their nature are always infectious, whereas magic zombies are merely often so. :smallannoyed:

[Knight9910]

Yes. Infectious zombies are infectious.

Incidentally, I wasn't kidding about nanite zombies being the best. Nanites kill the host then control the host's body, keeping it alive to search for new hosts to infect. In a way they're similar to the infected zombies, except the infection is technological in nature instead of scientific.

Also, this opens the way for nanites that are smart enough or controlled enough to create super awesome mega-zomborgs.

[Haruki-kun]

I kinda like cursed/magic/Living dead-type zombies. The Zombie virus is OK, but I'm starting to feel like it's starting to become "expected", whereas it was originally just a new twist to the whole zombie thing.

I remember when I watched Zombieland at the beginning the main character just says "When the virus hit..." or something like that. It's a virus. People already knew it would be a virus. There's no need to explain that it's a virus anymore. At this point making it not a virus might be the new twist to the whole thing...

[Ravens_cry]

While an infection is most likely to produce a transferable zombie like state, I have come to prefer a third option: we don't know. It's not magic per se in the sense of a spell, but it's magic in the sense it doesn't make any sense. Zombies don't make any sense, they make Thermodynamics cry, they make Biology curl up in a foetal position, they make Mechanical Engineering slam its head through a wall.
Any attempt at a rational explanation is going to run into inconsistencies.
So . . .don't.
After all, the unknown is much scarier.
Is it a curse?
Is it a disease?
Is Hell full?
Is it Armageddon?
The characters can speculate, but in the end, no one knows.
Maybe someday a full scientific team can get to work on figuring this out, but for now survival is a bit more important.

[Carry2]

That bit's always confused me (I haven't seen the film). If they're infected with super-rabies and have reached the later stages of the disease with hyper-aggression, then they'd have trouble swallowing and hence drinking.
Well, I didn't mean in the literal sense of actual rabies, but some kind of rage-inducing pathogen.

Of course, it still fails the essential question of why the zombies don't eat one another, or at least why it's not only the people who get infected and get away who are turned, anyone they actually catch is just stripped to the bone.
That's a good point, actually. If the virus were 'smart' enough to program it's victims to recognise (and not eat) other hosts- using chemical signals or wotnot- you'd presume it'd be smart enough to try infecting people without killing them. (Or, for that matter, mutate into a less lethal/dormant form, which is the main regulating factor against virulent disease. On the other hand, if the zombies have some kind of crude metabolic pathway in place, they might still need to eat...)

[Eldan]

The characters can speculate, but in the end, no one knows.
Maybe someday a full scientific team can get to work on figuring this out, but for now survival is a bit more important.


I would very much like that. I like stories with inaccurate science, but then I'd like them to be either gloriously inaccurate (i.e. some Doctor Who stories), or inaccurate in a way that acknowledges that they put some thought into it nevertheless.

[missmvicious]

Well both sides are making good points, some people are making points with no clear choice also. But its looking like the infection zombies are in the lead, (its probably their extra speed)

In my story I am working on a combination of both types. A magic base that spreads. :)

[Ravens_cry]

I would very much like that. I like stories with inaccurate science, but then I'd like them to be either gloriously inaccurate (i.e. some Doctor Who stories), or inaccurate in a way that acknowledges that they put some thought into it nevertheless.
I had an idea for a story for after after the end. Civilisations has returned in small spots and life within these areas is fairly good, but most areas are still pretty dangerous. A group of soldiers is escorting a team of scientists from a conclave out into the wild to try and investigate the phenomena. The major conflict would be the scientists need to know and study verses the soldiers trying to keep themselves and the scientists alive, the scientists theoretical knowledge verses the experience of the soldiers.

[enderlord99]

In my story I am working on a combination of both types. A magic base that spreads. :)




Maybe you could have a curse separately from a virus within the same story, with both having alarmingly similar results, and with zombies who are both cursed and infected being stronger than ones who are just one or the other.

Actually, I'm going to write a story like that...

[dehro]

Maybe you could have a curse separately from a virus within the same story, with both having alarmingly similar results, and with zombies who are both cursed and infected being stronger than ones who are just one or the other.

Actually, I'm going to write a story like that...

or go in the other direction..have a virus that is bad in it's own right, made stronger and turned into a weapon of mass zombification by a curse placed on the virus, it's creator or both.

[turkishproverb]

Again, why do you assume the world must be a dualistic balance of good and evil? That's completely unnecessary. Look at the Cthulhu Mythos for an enduring fictional setting where there are plenty of bad guys and no good guys to counterbalance them.

those aren't bad guys. They're neutral guys. Just horrifyingly neutral guys.

[Traab]

Ive always liked the Constantine version of the world to explain things. There are demonic and angelic forces at work, both sides make their own moves, neither side is omnipotent, so plots get snuck by their opposite faction.

Anyways, as far as zombies go, Night of the living dead style zombies only work small scale and short term. I think the real danger only lasted about a single night or so in that farmhouse right? At the end of the movie, didnt the general population basically round up the undead, burn em down, and wipe them out? 28 days later is the scary disease zombie movie, as you need fast zombies to have any real world wide threat. I honestly havent seen many of the curse style zombie movies, so I cant really judge them. I will admit that most of my books that have zombies tend to go the magic route. But then you are dealing with totally different setups.

For instance, the magic zombies tend to be tougher, either naturally, or because the evil necro who raised it is also casting spells to strengthen it. Its almost never a vast swarm of zombies killing everything. In the magic settings it seems like animated skeletons are the most common swarm undead troops.

Take the book Canticle. Its a forgotten realms book, but the basic gist is, an evil priest/sorcerer/necromancer/god only knows, has setup a base in the catacombs directly underneath one of the holiest sites in the world. He creates undead servants, everything from a mummy, to a zombie, to skeletons to ghouls. But he only made ONE zombie. He buffed it incredibly, but still, his swarm troops were the skeletons in the catacombs, his heavy hitter was the mummy. He made the zombie resistant to fire, enhanced its strength, and I think gave it some enchanted armor or something. I dunno if he only made one zombie due to lack of freshly dead bodies, or if there was another reason, but there was no zombie swarm. However, that zombie was one bad dude in a fight.

[enderlord99]

or go in the other direction..have a virus that is bad in it's own right, made stronger and turned into a weapon of mass zombification by a curse placed on the virus, it's creator or both.

How is that "the other direction?" I just said "there's both a virus and a curse.":smallconfused:

[Coidzor]

I had an idea for a story for after after the end. Civilisations has returned in small spots and life within these areas is fairly good, but most areas are still pretty dangerous. A group of soldiers is escorting a team of scientists from a conclave out into the wild to try and investigate the phenomena. The major conflict would be the scientists need to know and study verses the soldiers trying to keep themselves and the scientists alive, the scientists theoretical knowledge verses the experience of the soldiers.

...Then how did the scientists survive in the first place if they're that suicidal in the search of "knowledge?"

[dehro]

How is that "the other direction?" I just said "there's both a virus and a curse.":smallconfused:

I'm not quite sure...in fact I have no idea what I thought you had written when I wrote what I've written...

[enderlord99]

I'm not quite sure...in fact I have no idea what I thought you had written when I wrote what I've written...

Maybe you quoted my post when trying to quote the one I was responding to. Not sure.

[Ravens_cry]

...Then how did the scientists survive in the first place if they're that suicidal in the search of "knowledge?"
2nd generation in the conclave. Remember, this is after after the end.

[Coidzor]

2nd generation in the conclave. Remember, this is after after the end.

...Scientists that quickly?

...People raising their kids to be sheltered and dumb, knowing that they may have to contend with zombies in an active sense?

Weird.

[Ravens_cry]

...Scientists that quickly?

...People raising their kids to be sheltered and dumb, knowing that they may have to contend with zombies in an active sense?

Weird.
A thirst for knowledge doesn't mean your dumb, but if from of the better off areas and or a particularly well off conclave, I see it being possible. There is a zombie webcomic called, appropriately enough, The Zombie Hunters (http://www.thezombiehunters.com/index.php?strip_id=1). The cultural level at home base is about what I am thinking here.

[Knight9910]

Without going into the fact that calling scientists dumb is like calling the military pacificist...

How is a scientist not something worth having in a post-apocalypse scenario? I mean, I guess I could see the argument that certain kinds of science wouldn't be that useful; for example, if you're fighting zombies every day then naming new species of bugs and curing baldness aren't a priority.

But identifying medicinal plants? Knowing how to build and repair vehicles and weapons? Finding an energy source that's easy to acquire and usable with your limited resources, while also having enough output to matter?

Also, who says scientists need to be sheltered? Do you think scientists just sit in a tiny lab reading books and mixing chemicals all day? Do you not realize that a good portion of a scientist's time is actually going to be spent in the field, doing hands-on work?

[dehro]

Without going into the fact that calling scientists dumb is like calling the military pacificist...

How is a scientist not something worth having in a post-apocalypse scenario? I mean, I guess I could see the argument that certain kinds of science wouldn't be that useful; for example, if you're fighting zombies every day then naming new species of bugs and curing baldness aren't a priority.

But identifying medicinal plants? Knowing how to build and repair vehicles and weapons? Finding an energy source that's easy to acquire and usable with your limited resources, while also having enough output to matter?

Also, who says scientists need to be sheltered? Do you think scientists just sit in a tiny lab reading books and mixing chemicals all day? Do you not realize that a good portion of a scientist's time is actually going to be spent in the field, doing hands-on work?

also, in my experience, the definition of scientist does not exclude "raging lunatic with a gun"... whilst I agree that your average trained soldier is going to be a better fighter, there are plenty of scientists in various field who are extremely fit and capable of holding their ground in a fight.

[Coidzor]

A thirst for knowledge doesn't mean your dumb, but if from of the better off areas and or a particularly well off conclave, I see it being possible.

You kinda suggested they valued gaining knowledge over surviving to make use of it. That's... well, kinda dumb, which is why you see it as a quality of scientists in parody and satire, because it's over the top and audacious and, well, dumb. Maybe I'm misreading you though.

[Knight9910]

also, in my experience, the definition of scientist does not exclude "raging lunatic with a gun"... whilst I agree that your average trained soldier is going to be a better fighter, there are plenty of scientists in various field who are extremely fit and capable of holding their ground in a fight.

Is it sad that I instantly thought of two examples to say "yeah, like ___!" and both example were fictional characters and not real people?

(For the record: Daniel Jackson and Indiana Jones.)

[thubby]

engineers would probably be more useful in general than scientists.
there is a HUGE amount of overlap in training, but its generally the engineers with experience holding things together with string and duct tape.

[turkishproverb]

engineers would probably be more useful in general than scientists.
there is a HUGE amount of overlap in training, but its generally the engineers with experience holding things together with string and duct tape.

...

engineers ARE scientists.

and trust me, experimental scientists are quite as used to holding things together with random crap.

[thubby]

...

engineers ARE scientists.

me and the chemistry majors i share classes with would disagree.

[The Glyphstone]

me and the chemistry majors i share classes with would disagree.

The world's greatest engineer expresses his opinions on your disagreement. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipYkuCZ2IYI)

[thubby]

The world's greatest engineer expresses his opinions on your disagreement. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipYkuCZ2IYI)

:smallconfused:
im an engineering major, if that wasn't clear.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

While an infection is most likely to produce a transferable zombie like state, I have come to prefer a third option: we don't know. It's not magic per se in the sense of a spell, but it's magic in the sense it doesn't make any sense. Zombies don't make any sense, they make Thermodynamics cry, they make Biology curl up in a foetal position, they make Mechanical Engineering slam its head through a wall.
Any attempt at a rational explanation is going to run into inconsistencies.
So . . .don't.
After all, the unknown is much scarier.
Is it a curse?
Is it a disease?
Is Hell full?
Is it Armageddon?
The characters can speculate, but in the end, no one knows.
Maybe someday a full scientific team can get to work on figuring this out, but for now survival is a bit more important.

Ravens Cry said everything I wanted to say. It's the same reason I don't like set and known rules for magic: mystery is fun! The unknown is scary!

[dehro]

Is it sad that I instantly thought of two examples to say "yeah, like ___!" and both example were fictional characters and not real people?

(For the record: Daniel Jackson and Indiana Jones.)

shame on you for forgetting McGyver.

but no..I know a few who do martial arts, one who runs marathons and a couple of my old school buddies who were the most sporty active people in the world now work at Cern and other similar fancy science places in the world..and from what little I can see from their facebook piccies, they are no slackers.
and that's just the people I know.. I would expect that in a world largely taken over by zombies, the scientists that have managed to stay alive enough to be involved in some kind of reconstruction/survival comunity..would be the fittest and the toughest amongst their peers.. I see therefore no reason why a scientist would not be a good thing to have around....

[Knight9910]

Wait, MacGyver was a scientist? I thought he was a government agent with some scientific knowledge. That's not really the same thing.

...and this has gone completely off topic. Um, back on topic. I think Raven is right somewhat. The concept of undead defy pretty much all science as we know it. Admittedly what we humans know of science is rather limited, but still.

That said, is it possible to explain zombies without sounding like you're just spouting a bunch of technobabble BS? Of course it's possible. It's just that most people don't try because, really, why? Zombies are so enormously popular right now pretty much nothing with zombies in it can fail. (Note I didn't say anything with zombies would be GOOD, just that it wouldn't fail.)

Trying to make a zombie story more appealing to the masses is like trying to make water more wet. Pointless.

[Little Brother]

Cursed are BY FAR less scary. You just hole up of 2 months with a stockpile of food and water, and whatever the maggots, coyotes, at such haven't gotten, the rot will have.

Infected, though, are braindead, so I'm not too worried, same thing. Coyotes, dogs, pumas, and such will devour/destroy them, they'll starve once a ll the humans hide, and they very well might dehydrate to death. Just kick back for two months or so, then stick your head outside from a roof, so no zombies, see how it looks, then, yeah.

[dehro]

Wait, MacGyver was a scientist? I thought he was a government agent with some scientific knowledge. That's not really the same thing.

if I remember correctly he was educated in physics and chemistry.

[Mixt]

How about this?

Earlier in the story the protagonists had to fight of an invasion from hell, they won by sealing hell up tight so no more demons could get out and continue attacking...unfortunately it turns out nothing could get in either.

So the souls of the dead run right into a solid wall when trying to pass on.
Worse, there's some sort of Cosmic Abomination (ALA Lovecraft) in the empty space between dimensions that these souls traverse to get to hell.

Normally this would not be a problem since they travel through so quickly, but now, when their progress is blocked the Abomination has time to do...stuff to them.

Then after corrupting the souls, the Abomination sends them right back into their bodies on the living plane.

ZOMBIES!!!

And so the zombie apocalypse is a result of the heroes own actions.
Save the world from a demonic invasion, end up with Eldritch Horror empowered zombies instead.
You just went from bad to worse.

These zombies, as it turns out, are super-powered as a result of the corruption.

These powers include, among others:

-Teleportation (The walking corpse just teleported right up in your face and bit your nose off!)

-Perpetual motion (But then, most types of zombies has this already)

-Phasing through solid objects (Your silly barricades do nothing, they just walk right through the damn wall before turning solid again and ripping you apart)

-Regeneration (As in, pulling themselves back together if blown to pieces, the rest of the body will continue to attack even if the head is destroyed, heck, reduce it to nothing more than a arm and that arm will continue trying to strangle you to death even if the rest of it has been totally vaporized)

-Flight (...Oh frig)

-Psychically driving weak-willed individuals who look at them totally bonkers (And now you are gunning down your comrades while laughing like a maniac)

-Minor reality warping (Very minor, but still...AGH WALL OF FIRE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ESCAPE ROUTE)

EVERYONE who dies becomes one of those within 10 minutes or so after death.

How about those zombies?
Think the world can handle that?

The "Heroes" really screwed up this time didn't they?
Geez, you stop one apocalypse, only to cause another, even worse one as a direct result.

Just as the Abomination planned.

[Traab]

How about this?

Earlier in the story the protagonists had to fight of an invasion from hell, they won by sealing hell up tight so no more demons could get out and continue attacking...unfortunately it turns out nothing could get in either.

So the souls of the dead run right into a solid wall when trying to pass on.
Worse, there's some sort of Cosmic Abomination (ALA Lovecraft) in the empty space between dimensions that these souls traverse to get to hell.

Normally this would not be a problem since they travel through so quickly, but now, when their progress is blocked the Abomination has time to do...stuff to them.

Then after corrupting the souls, the Abomination sends them right back into their bodies on the living plane.

ZOMBIES!!!

And so the zombie apocalypse is a result of the heroes own actions.
Save the world from a demonic invasion, end up with Eldritch Horror empowered zombies instead.
You just went from bad to worse.

These zombies, as it turns out, are super-powered as a result of the corruption.

These powers include, among others:

-Teleportation (The walking corpse just teleported right up in your face and bit your nose off!)

-Perpetual motion (But then, most types of zombies has this already)

-Phasing through solid objects (Your silly barricades do nothing, they just walk right through the damn wall before turning solid again and ripping you apart)

-Regeneration (As in, pulling themselves back together if blown to pieces, the rest of the body will continue to attack even if the head is destroyed, heck, reduce it to nothing more than a arm and that arm will continue trying to strangle you to death even if the rest of it has been totally vaporized)

-Flight (...Oh frig)

-Psychically driving weak-willed individuals who look at them totally bonkers (And now you are gunning down your comrades while laughing like a maniac)

-Minor reality warping (Very minor, but still...AGH WALL OF FIRE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ESCAPE ROUTE)

EVERYONE who dies becomes one of those within 10 minutes or so after death.

How about those zombies?
Think the world can handle that?

The "Heroes" really screwed up this time didn't they?

Lure them all to antartica, THEN NUKE IT FROM ORBIT! Phase through THAT you damn dirty zombies!

[Brumski]

How about this?

Earlier in the story the protagonists had to fight of an invasion from hell, they won by sealing hell up tight so no more demons could get out and continue attacking...unfortunately it turns out nothing could get in either.

So the souls of the dead run right into a solid wall when trying to pass on.
Worse, there's some sort of Cosmic Abomination (ALA Lovecraft) in the empty space between dimensions that these souls traverse to get to hell.

Normally this would not be a problem since they travel through so quickly, but now, when their progress is blocked the Abomination has time to do...stuff to them.

Then after corrupting the souls, the Abomination sends them right back into their bodies on the living plane.

ZOMBIES!!!


I really liked this until you started giving the zombies super-powers. I thought you were going to say the Abomination drives the souls crazy just from experiencing it (ALA Lovecraft), then they get sent back to their bodies and become zombies.

For the OP, I was kinda confused cause I didn't see why a Curse couldn't be transferable by bites. Zack Snyder said about his zombies in his Dawn of the Dead movie that their bite was supernatural, like a vampire. So those zombies are basically both.

Pride & Prejudice & Zombies is also both, I guess. People that have been dead for years previously are still coming back, and if you get bit you slowly die and become one. So whatever it is is re-animating already dead bodies, and is infectious.

The scariest theoretical zombies are ones with an infectious bite, and if all people that die become zombies, period (Diary of the Dead). Any random person that dies from a heart attack or stroke or whatever would cause a mini-outbreak. Civilization would have to become much more regimented.

All that said, The Return of the Living Dead is the scariest zombie movie for me, maybe cause I first saw it as a kid, but those zombies are smart, fast, infectious and unkillable, caused by a chemical that re-animates any dead organism, slowly kills then re-animates any living ones, and RAINS FROM THE SKY.

At this point its pretty difficult to break down zombie lore into just two categories, you more or less have to identify them by each movie/book/comic. "We talkin Romero zombies?"

[H Birchgrove]

Wait, MacGyver was a scientist? I thought he was a government agent with some scientific knowledge. That's not really the same thing.


if I remember correctly he was educated in physics and chemistry.

He was also an engineer, and worked with bomb disposal during the Vietnam War. The Wikipedia entry even states that the TV-series made (young) viewers interested in engineering.

[Mixt]

A little elaboration on that last post.

The Abomination's influence in the material universe is extremely limited.
So the plan is to get more of itself into the material universe.
It does this by using those souls of the dead.

The corruption is actually due to the creature attaching small parts of itself to the soul, essentially hitchhiking to get past the barrier that exists for the sole purpose of keeping IT the hell out.

Having a fragment of that thing attached also has the side-effect of giving the soul a tiny fraction of the creatures reality-warping power, which manifests as the things i listed.

This leads to the zombies becoming better at killing, thus killing more people, leading to more souls being "Corrupted", leading to the abomination gaining a stronger foothold within the material universe and creates more zombies, leading to more people dying...and so on.

And once it has smuggled enough pieces of itself into the material universe...let's just try not to think about it.

Ultimately, the "Super-Zombies" are just a byproduct off the resident Cosmic Horror's attemps to destroy the universe (Which requires being able to interact with it)

Still, a Zombie Apocalypse is still a Zombie Apocalypse, regardless of the nature of the zombies or what is responsible for them.

[Brother Oni]

Still, a Zombie Apocalypse is still a Zombie Apocalypse, regardless of the nature of the zombies or what is responsible for them.

There's only so far you can push zombies until they stop being zombies. THe main essence of them is that they're an unstoppable mindless horde (satirisation of the consumer culture drone aside), turn them into intelligent beings with super powers and all you have is a reflavoured superhero movie.

An example of how things can be pushed too far - the Twilight series' interpretation of vampires.

[Coidzor]

Cursed are BY FAR less scary. You just hole up of 2 months with a stockpile of food and water, and whatever the maggots, coyotes, at such haven't gotten, the rot will have.

Infected, though, are braindead, so I'm not too worried, same thing. Coyotes, dogs, pumas, and such will devour/destroy them, they'll starve once a ll the humans hide, and they very well might dehydrate to death. Just kick back for two months or so, then stick your head outside from a roof, so no zombies, see how it looks, then, yeah.

Would you please clarify your reasoning here, as you seem to be saying that supernaturally physics (and between usually and potentially rot) defying zombies are less scary than infected zombies because they'll rot away in the same manner.

Highlighting their similarities doesn't really help us understand why you find curse zombies less frightening.


also, in my experience, the definition of scientist does not exclude "raging lunatic with a gun"... whilst I agree that your average trained soldier is going to be a better fighter, there are plenty of scientists in various field who are extremely fit and capable of holding their ground in a fight.

Apparently the Siren from Borderlands even has a Ph.D, after all. And, well, the majority of characters in that game qualify for both and the plurality qualify for the first bit.

[Traab]

There's only so far you can push zombies until they stop being zombies. THe main essence of them is that they're an unstoppable mindless horde (satirisation of the consumer culture drone aside), turn them into intelligent beings with super powers and all you have is a reflavoured superhero movie.

An example of how things can be pushed too far - the Twilight series' interpretation of vampires.

emphasis on the mindless part. But yeah, if you want undead hordes with abilities, choose something else from the vast pantheon of undead. Wights, ghouls, vampires, mummies, specters, ghosts, ghasts, abominations, skeletons, the list is huge. Dont take something with big name recognition and slap on all sorts of extra abilities. If you do you wind up with final fantasy, the spirits within!

[Mixt]

Let's see here, they are corporeal most of the time, so the incorporeal undead such as ghosts are out.

They certainly aren't mummies.

Not vampires either, not only are they unaffected by sunlight, but they look every bit as dead as they are, whereas vampires tend to be able to appear mostly human.

Not skeletons, they still have flesh on them, unless they get stripped to the bone that is, that would turn them into skeletons.

Ghouls could work...

Abominations...yeah, the name certainly fits alright, being infused with pieces of a Cosmic Horror and all that.

There's also the whole part with being driven by the homicidal need to kill everything to make more of themselves.

Okay, so they are easily mistaken for zombies at first glance since they pretty much look exactly like a zombie would (Unless, as mentioned, they have all the flesh torn from their bones without actually destroying the bones themselves), but then the supernatural abilities makes it clear that "Wait a damn second..."
And then you die and become one of them.

Ah what the hell, i just call them Abominations and be done with it.
Abomination apocalypse, brought to you by the horror beyond the edge of the universe.
The dead wants you to join them.

[Knight9910]

Zombies are the mainstream undead. If you're going to have undead creatures in a fictional work it's going to be zombies or ghosts, or skeletons at the weirdest. Anything else and people are just gonna be like "what kind of nerd s**t is a wight?"

EDIT: Er, to make it clear, I'm not saying this like it's a good thing or like it's what you need to do with your own zombie setting. I'm just saying that's the way society tends to work.

[Yora]

That bit's always confused me (I haven't seen the film). If they're infected with super-rabies and have reached the later stages of the disease with hyper-aggression, then they'd have trouble swallowing and hence drinking.

If they can't drink then they should be dead in a matter of days from dehydration, not weeks from starvation.
Also, they would attack each other. There is no good reason why they would only attack healthy people.

[Killer Angel]

I really liked this until you started giving the zombies super-powers.

Did someone said Marvel Zombies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Zombies)?

[Traab]

Zombies are the mainstream undead. If you're going to have undead creatures in a fictional work it's going to be zombies or ghosts, or skeletons at the weirdest. Anything else and people are just gonna be like "what kind of nerd s**t is a wight?"

EDIT: Er, to make it clear, I'm not saying this like it's a good thing or like it's what you need to do with your own zombie setting. I'm just saying that's the way society tends to work.

You have a point, but those same people are going to look at reality warping zombies who can become incorporeal and say, "WTF IS THIS?!"

As far as abominations go, it would likely work well if you go with a similar look to the warcraft 3 abominations. They are basically several corpses sewed together, really strong, and nasty as hell. Change sewn together to melded together and you have some nice horrors to work with and can give them whatever abilities you want in addition, since unlike zombies/vampires, abominations arent really something with a long standing ability list that defines them.

[turkishproverb]

Zombies are the mainstream undead. If you're going to have undead creatures in a fictional work it's going to be zombies or ghosts, or skeletons at the weirdest. Anything else and people are just gonna be like "what kind of nerd s**t is a wight?"

EDIT: Er, to make it clear, I'm not saying this like it's a good thing or like it's what you need to do with your own zombie setting. I'm just saying that's the way society tends to work.

Vampires would like a word.

[Yora]

Zombies are not defined by their abilities, but by their role.

When the dead rise to attack the living and form an uncontrolled horde, they are zombies.

[Dr.Epic]

Um, you left out Radioactive. What? You think Plague and Voodoo zombies are the best? And what about Patchwork, or do you not have Munchkin Zombies 2 - Armed and Dangerous?:smallwink:

[Coidzor]

Okay, so they are easily mistaken for zombies at first glance since they pretty much look exactly like a zombie would (Unless, as mentioned, they have all the flesh torn from their bones without actually destroying the bones themselves), but then the supernatural abilities makes it clear that "Wait a damn second..."
And then you die and become one of them.

Indeed, hardly a compelling story. For one, it's too brief.

[Scarlet Knight]

What's more fun? Having a scientist work night in day in a lab to find a cure; or your plucky band of misfits looking for the way to break the curse?

Go team curse!

[Mixt]

For the normal population sure, but for the heroes...we are talking about a bunch of people who fought against the forces of hell and killed several major devils prior to the rise of the undead.

As i mentioned, it was the act of stopping the war against hell by sealing the place up tight that caused the whole situation with the undead in the first place, since it also had the unfortunate effect of preventing souls from passing on. Turns out the seal doesn't just keep the demons and devils in, it also keeps everything else out...oops (Nice Job Breaking It Heroes)

And then the Cosmic Horror took advantage of that and sent the trapped souls right back along with fragments of itself, resulting in walking corpses powered by fragments of a Elder Horror.

So yeah, the normal population goes down pretty dang fast, but the heroes actually manage to fend for themselves despite what their foes are capable off.
Great lot of good it does them in the long term though...since you know, the rest of the human population has been utterly decimated.

It should be noted that the story at it's core is not about the undead, it's about that Cosmic Horror manipulating events in an attempt to let itself into the universe, the zombies/Whatever you wanna call them are just a side-effect of those efforts.
Just like the war against Hell was also caused by the Cosmic Horror...and the threat before that was also caused by it...and the one before that...

Actually, the Undead don't show up until part 4 of the story, as in, the undead apocalypse is the fourth threat caused by that creature, they have already dealt with three other issues by the time the dead start walking.

Solving the first problem turns out to have been a distraction while number two sets up, defeating the second threat directly causes the third one (Hell invades) and fixing that directly leads to the zombie apocalypse.
For the record, the first and second problems involved a madman with ambitions for world domination and a scientist who was driven mad by "The voice" in his head respectively.

And The Eldritch Horror masterminded the entire thing, using it's limited influence on the universe to cause the chain of events that would allow it to use the souls of the dead to sneak under the radar and get more of itself into the material universe...

And then the resulting super zombies causes more death's, which leads to more souls trying to move on, only to crash into the seal and then be captured by the creature, which attaches pieces of itself to the souls and then sends them back, thus allowing those pieces to get past the universal barrier meant to prevent it from getting in.
Which gives the Abomination a stronger foothold and also creates more walking corpses bent on killing everything.

The reason the Abomination needs to resort to that kind of subtle manipulation and sneaking?
Because the universe is actively trying to keep it out, and strong as it is, brute-forcing it's way in is beyond it's capabilities, so it has to sneak past the universes defenses using the method described and then re-assemble itself on the inside.
Once inside everything becomes a lot easier, think of it like this, you are trying to invade a fort, problem is the walls are impenetrable, so what do you do?
Sneak past the walls of course, in this case by smuggling yourself inside one troop at a time.
Kinda like that on a universal scale, with a single creature instead of an army.

Ultimately, the whole story is actually about that Abomination's attempts to gain a stronger presence in the universe that happens to feature zombies during the fourth arc.

So really, it's only the fourth part that can be considered a "Zombie Apocalypse"
And yes, it get's worse. It always does when you are dealing with creatures like that *Points at the indescribable thing beyond the borders of the universe*

And yes, the heroes lose in the end, not for lack of trying though.
It's just that you can't really effectively fight against that kind of creature, not once it decides to stop the zombie shenanigans and pull it's pieces back together.
But really, points for lasting as long as they did.

[Coidzor]

And yes, the heroes lose in the end, not for lack of trying though.
It's just that you can't really effectively fight against that kind of creature, not once it decides to stop the zombie shenanigans and pull it's pieces back together.
But really, points for lasting as long as they did.

What is this, the Cthulhu Mythos with the creepiness replaced with blood and gore? :smallconfused:

[Mixt]

In some ways.

Though it also has a lot of action and blowing those shambling corpses to pieces with giant fireballs...and disintegration rays...you can thank the magician for those.

It starts off as a relatively normal fantasy setting with advanced technology for the first three arcs, occasionally hinting that there is some sort of madness-inducing higher being pulling the strings, and gradually starts shifting towards Cthulhu Mythos like as the Abomination's presence grows during the fourth (AKA the "Zombie arc) arc.

And then it plunges right into Lovecraft territory towards the end.

The heroes did try to punch the thing out, but the Abomination shut those attempts down rather brutally.

...And then there's the alternate timeline, where things played out a bit differently...only for it to end just as badly there, even worse because in that continuity it actually seemed like the heroes had a chance for a while.

And then there's the third timeline where they manage to survive by fleeing into another universe.
Only for things to get worse...again...
They just can't catch a break.

It's got the hopelessness and "You just can't win" attitude of Lovecraft's stories, it just happens to be a bit more action-oriented, giving the protagonists the opportunity to try to fight back and maybe even cause a little damage, only to ultimately lose horribly in the end no matter what they do.

[Starwulf]

In some ways.

Though it also has a lot of action and blowing those shambling corpses to pieces with giant fireballs...and disintegration rays...you can thank the magician for those.

It starts off as a relatively normal fantasy setting with advanced technology for the first three arcs, occasionally hinting that there is some sort of madness-inducing higher being pulling the strings, and gradually starts shifting towards Cthulhu Mythos like as the Abomination's presence grows during the fourth (AKA the "Zombie arc) arc.

And then it plunges right into Lovecraft territory towards the end.

The heroes did try to punch the thing out, but the Abomination shut those attempts down rather brutally.

...And then there's the alternate timeline, where things played out a bit differently...only for it to end just as badly there, even worse because in that continuity it actually seemed like the heroes had a chance for a while.

And then there's the third timeline where they manage to survive by fleeing into another universe.
Only for things to get worse...again...
They just can't catch a break.

It's got the hopelessness and "You just can't win" attitude of Lovecraft's stories, it just happens to be a bit more action-oriented, giving the protagonists the opportunity to try to fight back and maybe even cause a little damage, only to ultimately lose horribly in the end no matter what they do.

Is this...is this an actual book series? Or just something you are imagining off the top of your head? If so, do you have plans on putting it down on paper? It sounds like it would be a good read ^^

[Mixt]

It's something that i have in my head, it's been brewing for months now.

Though putting it to paper has proven difficult, it turns out that while i am pretty good at building a skeleton plot and coming up with the basic things, i start failing horribly once it comes down to details and fleshing things out.
I'm also pretty bad at writing convincing characters, heck, i go as far as to say that character personalites and behaviour is what i'm worst at.

Probably has something to do with my own lack of social skills and non-existent insight into how people think :smallannoyed:
The only characters whose personalities and behaviour i have fleshed out are the antagonists, and most of those are either insane, not human, or both.

As it is i'm sitting on a setting, the rules of the setting, basic history and geography, a general outline of the plot, the villains...and nothing else.

Simply put, i'm good at coming up with concepts and ideas, bad at actually pulling them off.

Which is why i don't think i be trying to write anything anytime soon.
Not without a lot of practice first.

[Coidzor]

NaNoWriMo, mate.

[missmvicious]

Damn, that was some serious derailing. I believe that over 2 pages of this thread had nothing to do with my question

[Killer Angel]

If you're going to have undead creatures in a fictional work it's going to be zombies or ghosts, or skeletons at the weirdest.


Vampires would like a word.

Also Mummies.

[kpenguin]

Zombies are not defined by their abilities, but by their role.

When the dead rise to attack the living and form an uncontrolled horde, they are zombies.

This definition seems to exclude the zombies of voodoo/vodou/vodu/etc., the mythological figures from which modern zombies draw their names from. The zombies reanimated by West African bokors or Haitian witch doctors are hardly an uncontrolled horde raised to attack the living.

It also excludes the zombies in the sense of a people without agency or volition. The faceless, mindless groups of people that run solely at the directions of others or mob mentality. These are the zombies that movie zombies are metaphors for.

Ultimately, what unites the zombies of myth, the zombies of film, the zombies of metaphor are a lack of will and agency. A lack of mind and spirit. I would, therefore, define zombies based on that commonality in attempt to be inclusive of them rather than exclusive.

[Morph Bark]

By the "cursed" zombie type, do you mean "you die, you come back as a zombie, without needing to be bitten" or just "the dead have come back due to a curse" kinda thing? In the first manner they are worse than infection type zombies, since you don't know how to stop it (infection zombies = just kill them all, maybe quarantine stuff). In the latter manner they aren't that bad at all, since the amount of zombies is limited to a hard cap that can only go lower (due to killing zombies).

Curse type zombies in fiction also tend to be slower and far less intelligent, though they may be harder to kill.

[Brumski]

Ultimately, the whole story is actually about that Abomination's attempts to gain a stronger presence in the universe that happens to feature zombies during the fourth arc.

So really, it's only the fourth part that can be considered a "Zombie Apocalypse"
And yes, it get's worse. It always does when you are dealing with creatures like that *Points at the indescribable thing beyond the borders of the universe*


Fifth arc. OK you defeated all the zombies on Earth, things should be good. But wait, you cut off Hell from the whole universe, so some alien race has been totally infected and taken over by the Cosmic Horror, now they're coming to invade. ALIEN super-zombies, kinda the reverse of the end of the first Marvel Zombies book.

Takes your story from fantasy, to horror, and now sci-fi. Get some pr0n in there and you're a millionaire.

[Asta Kask]

Real Zombie Research. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hPT0QrLL0rY)

[SiuiS]

cursed zombies tend to be overly arbitrary in how they work/spread/etc. and more often than not, the way the magic works, or where it comes from, is never addressed.
leaving the whole reason for zombies as "cuz we needed zombies"

also, involving a magic system means there should be an opposing force. so wtf? wheres the holy cleric turning undead on these things?

infections have basic rules everyone gets, and creates neat social situations.

what do you mean, where are they? When have you looked?
I'm going to laugh my fool pony head off the first time a big biker dude is rent to pieces, but the zombies are unable to enter an Irish bar because a guy got drunk and sanctified the place.

There probably already is such an opposing force, unobserved because has just never been opposed before. There could be constant unmeasurable energy that you don't see because it's opposite force doesn't show very often.