Undead + Psionics?

[Krüsher]

Hello forum! I was working on a build for myself a bit ago, and it was a psion who eventually decided he wanted to live forever, so instead of becoming a lich, he cannibalized a bunch and turned ghoulish. Now nevermind why i'm even trying to get into this, I just want to know if you guys know any feats that work similarly to "Undead Wildshape" so he can use psychometabolism powers. Btw I have already looked at the Grim Psion, do not want.

[ZerglingOne]

As far as I know, as long as you're an intelligent undead, there should be no problem with using psionic powers.

edit: Assuming your DM allows your character to keep his memory.

2nd edit: Also, since psychometabolism powers aren't labeled as being a positive energy effect, healing yourself shouldn't be an issue.

3rd edit: I hope this helps.

[KillianHawkeye]

A ghoul should have no issue using psychometabolism powers as far as I know.

[Andreaz]

Unless a psionic power demands the target/user to be a living being, nothing stops you from using the power.

If your undead is intelligent, you're losing nothing as far as casting goes.

[faceroll]

Telepathy spells, like enchantment spells, will have some trouble affecting you. Losing out on Psychic Reformation and Schism is a bummer.

[Andreaz]

That's why you take levels in vitalist and break that restriction :p

[Psyren]

That's why you take levels in vitalist and break that restriction :p

Or just get one as a cohort/friend and have him manifest it on you.

But that is a PF solution of course.

[Flickerdart]

3.0 psionics had a weird clause that undead couldn't use psionics because they required life energy (and then later in the PsH, noted that undead relish using psionic attacks, because WotC is dumb). This doesn't exist in 3.5, so no worries. A bunch of powers from CPsi do open conduits to the Positive Energy plane, but their effects are always explicit about what, if anything, they do for undead.

[Krüsher]

Okay my only problem with this is that when i looked at the PrC Grim Psion it specifically said that you can't use psychometabolism powers because you have not metabolism. So i was just wondering, if I manifest metamorphosis, does ky new form just not have a con score?

[Psyren]

Grim Psion is 3.0, thus it uses the now defunct rules that Flickerdart mentioned. Psionics is an unfortunate exception to the "if it was in 3.0 you can use it in 3.5" because of the depth of changes they made.

If you want a 3.5 psionic "lich", you have a couple of options; Spectral Savant from CPsi, and the psionic lich template from Hyperconscious. You can also take a look at the taint-swilling Subverted Psion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20051125a) PrC for something a bit more generically vile.

[Tokuhara]

4 Words: Brain In A Jar

Psionic Undead. Dunno what the LA for "Templating" BiaJ on a Character...

[Psyren]

4 Words: Brain In A Jar

Psionic Undead. Dunno what the LA for "Templating" BiaJ on a Character...

It is LA-, meaning not designed for PCs.

[Tokuhara]

It is LA-, meaning not designed for PCs.

Probably because a brain in a jar isn't really built for adventures (quite literally).

I was just giving an example.

[hushblade]

Psion Uncarnate could be interpreted as a path to immortality, shedding the body which is that which ages. It loses 5 manifester levels though. If you go into epic levels, it wouldn't be much of a problem though, since your manifester level caps at 20.

It never explicitly says that you gain immortality, but one could make a strong case for it, check with your DM.

[tyckspoon]

Psion Uncarnate could be interpreted as a path to immortality, shedding the body which is that which ages. It loses 5 manifester levels though. If you go into epic levels, it wouldn't be much of a problem though, since your manifester level caps at 20.


Manifester progression- new powers known, new levels of power, and class-based Power Points- stops at 20. Manifester level keeps advancing, and it's a lot more important to keep that up for a psion than caster level is for a Wizard. Most spells have level caps that mean that a CL 25 Wizard is not meaningfully weaker than a CL 30 one (his stuff can be dispelled easier, but you're talking about levels where anybody who cares can rig his dispel check to beat anything anyway.. and anybody who doesn't care can't beat anything thanks to the limits on Dispel spells, so it doesn't matter.) Powers mostly don't have limits on how high you can augment them, so an ML 30 power is actually better than the ML 25 version.

[hushblade]

Oh? I guess I was mistaken. Regardless, its still a potential path to immortality, depending on how your DM interprets your case for it. the Psionic lich in hyperconscious does sound like another great alternative if you don't mind third party, but I don't see a LA listed in the book.

Edit: You lose 4 manifester levels, which can be solved by Practiced Manifester.

[Daftendirekt]

Here's (http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?mpress_TCKpreview) a 3rd party psionic lich template as well.

[Psyren]

Probably because a brain in a jar isn't really built for adventures (quite literally).

I was just giving an example.

If I came off as criticizing you, that wasn't my intent and I apologize. I was just pointing out that they weren't designed to be played (as an answer to your question of "how much LA would they be as a template?")

In short, the DM would have to crib something together and it likely wouldn't be cheap.


Manifester progression- new powers known, new levels of power, and class-based Power Points- stops at 20. Manifester level keeps advancing, and it's a lot more important to keep that up for a psion than caster level is for a Wizard. Most spells have level caps that mean that a CL 25 Wizard is not meaningfully weaker than a CL 30 one (his stuff can be dispelled easier, but you're talking about levels where anybody who cares can rig his dispel check to beat anything anyway.. and anybody who doesn't care can't beat anything thanks to the limits on Dispel spells, so it doesn't matter.) Powers mostly don't have limits on how high you can augment them, so an ML 30 power is actually better than the ML 25 version.

Not only that, but ML is part of the bonus PP calculation, giving you more ammo. The combination of higher ML and more bonus PP effectively means that psions get spell slots above 9th without needing Improved Spell Capacity.

[Big Fau]

Probably because a brain in a jar isn't really built for adventures (quite literally).

I was just giving an example.

Well, when that happens you just need to take a note out of Robot Nixon's book.

[Andreaz]

Okay my only problem with this is that when i looked at the PrC Grim Psion it specifically said that you can't use psychometabolism powers because you have not metabolism. So i was just wondering, if I manifest metamorphosis, does ky new form just not have a con score?

Yeah, forget that. Psychometabolism is indistinguishable from Transmutation. Psionics 3.0 are a world away from psionics 3.5, so you can't just declare the material converted.

Thaaaat said, instead of being a psionic ghoul, why don't you try being a psionic sandwich? Twice smarter, thrice tastier.

[hushblade]

Here's (http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?mpress_TCKpreview) a 3rd party psionic lich template as well.

I'm not seeing a LA for this. Am I missing something? Clearly it needs one.

[Psyren]

Unless I'm mistaken, that's the same one in Hyperconscious. I always assumed the "Challenge Rating: Base Creature +2" meant "+2 LA" since there was no other LA listed.

[hushblade]

I would sooner just apply the same LA the standard lich has, since they're basically the same.

[Psyren]

I would sooner just apply the same LA the standard lich has, since they're basically the same.

The problem is that standard lich LA isn't worth it; the only reasonable way to become a lich is via DN, WitW or post-epic when your caster levels don't matter as much anymore (like Xykon did.) Before that, lichdom is a trap.