[PF] Can you give a potion to a fallen comrade who is conscious?

[Larpus]

Ok, since this generated some discussion and uncertainties in the RAW thread.

Original question:

Q84

(a) Can you make a conscious (friendly) creature drink a potion? Let's say an ally is getting dangerously low on hp but they don't have any actions left to drink a potion, can you "feed" them a potion on your turn if you're adjacent to them? My gut says no, since all turns in a round basically happen at the same time and if the character is doing something else, it can't also drink a potion but the question frequently pops up and I can't find any rules for it.


A84

a. No. By the rules, you can only drink a potion yourself, or administer it to an unconscious creature as a full-round action. See: here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/potions) under "activation."


A84
(a) Yes you can, making someone friendly and conscious drink a potion is a standard action on your part (same as activating a potion normally, or if you prefer to think this way, "applying an oil" on your fallen comrade). While someone unconscious (in this case he doesn't have to be friendly, unconscious = willing) is a full action.

It's under the potions entry.
Activation: Drinking a potion or applying an oil requires no special skill. The user merely removes the stopper and swallows the potion or smears on the oil. The following rules govern potion and oil use.

Drinking a potion or using an oil is a standard action. The potion or oil takes effect immediately. Using a potion or oil provokes attacks of opportunity. An enemy may direct an attack of opportunity against the potion or oil container rather than against the character. A successful attack of this sort can destroy the container, preventing the character from drinking the potion or applying the oil.

A creature must be able to swallow a potion or smear on an oil. Because of this, incorporeal creatures cannot use potions or oils. Any corporeal creature can imbibe a potion or use an oil.

A character can carefully administer a potion to an unconscious creature as a full-round action, trickling the liquid down the creature's throat. Likewise, it takes a full-round action to apply an oil to an unconscious creature.


Actually this isn't covered by that section. Applying an oil on someone else still doesn't make much sense in a combat situation unless the subject is unconscious or not moving. And the oil and potion are not interchangeable anyway (you can't make an oil of cure light wounds afaik). It's evident from the fact that there's no mention of who triggers an AoO, in the case of oils, it would be the one applying it but in the case of potions it would have to be both since you have to take your focus off to drink something.

First, I apologize for my wording as it sounded as if I had actual RAW text to quote, I did not, I was just extending the RAW with a bit of RAI.

My answer was supposing a standing target who was unable to take actions, I believe it'd be an action similar to applying an oil or aid another (not exactly, but close enough) and since the target is conscious, it can swallow, which I believe to be a free action if an action at all.

If however the target has actually dropped to the ground or similar, then it is a full action as you'd need to spend your move action to get on the ground yourself, making very little difference if the target is conscious or not.

[Blisstake]

Well, yeah, it was the RAW thread, so I that's what I was exclusively going by.

Since we're not constrained to that, here are my interpretations:

RAW: Definitely no, as nothing says you can give a potion to a friend who is conscious, and nothing where we can reasonably infer that it is possible either.

RAI: Eh... hard to say. It seems far more relevant that the target isn't moving than that they cannot be conscious, so... maybe?

As a DM: Turn combat is just a representation. Your ally isn't staying still for you while you give them a potion: they're fighting, running, casting a spell, whatever, making administering a potion to them essentially impossible. So as a DM, I would rule that you may only give an ally a potion (as a full-round action) if they are unconscious/helpless/paralyzed/otherwise immobile.

[W3bDragon]

By RAW, it seems clear that you cannot administer the potion to a conscious and active ally. Even though you could administer a potion to an unconscious ally, it seems that the main reason isn't that he's unconscious, rather its that he's inactive. You're basically coaxing an action out of him by pouring the potion down his throat and massaging his neck so that he reflexively swallows.

By my RAI interpretation, I'd say that you're granting your ally an additional action, which isn't permissible. However, if a player asks to do that, I'd houserule that he can ready an action to feed his ally a potion, so that the ally, on his turn, would use only a move action to drink the potion, in conjunction with your readied action. That way, the player isn't getting something for nothing. He's spending at least a move action.

[Larpus]

Well, the only reason I'm inclined to believe otherwise (and rule as such if I were the DM) is that you're trading an action for an action, and both would provoke AoOs through the duration, so it seems fair to me rules-wise.

As for the RP, I'd consider it being given as fast as possible between actions, such as directly before or after an attack, but does require both to take their heads out of the action and all that, hence the AoO.

[Diefje]

Depends kind of on what you are doing exactly. And here is a bit of rules interpretation. Is "unable to act" the same as unconsciousness in this case, since it is not actually the unconsciousness that is stopping the person from imbibing a potion, it's being unable to act that is stopping him from pouring it in his mouth?

If so, then you could do it as if the person were unconscious (full round, AoO prob lose Dex to AC, concentration check).

If not, one could unstopper the vial and place it in the victim's mouth as a Distracting Action in combat (draw AoO). The actual drinking of the potion draws an AoO, but since the person can't act, even though he's conscious, he's stuck with a vial in his mouth, liquid pouring out, but no potion for him :( if he was able to act, he could drink it on his next turn.

[Tokuhara]

We had this situation last session involving a Human Monk who dual-weilded Battlefists & Warforged Arms...

It was Party vs. Rust Monster

[Tyndmyr]

My party solved this by making "potion helmets". Think of a beer hat, only with potions and helmet instead of beer.

It's not terribly hard to make a mechanism by which you don't consume the potion until incapacitated(say, a trigger activated by the sneer on your lip uncurling). Works for everything short of hold person/etc.

For the less ridiculous/cheese minded...yes, it's reasonable to feed a potion to an ally provided they are not moving. I would allow, in addition to the various states of incapacitation, feeding a potion to someone say, taking only mental actions, or otherwise keeping his mouth in a stationary and unused position.

[Keneth]

This is what I've decided to rule for when the situation arises next:

(a) You can't feed a potion to a conscious ally (or use an oil on them) unless they can't move on their own, like if they're cowering or stunned, in which case it's a standard action and the action provokes an attack of opportunity as if you drank the potion yourself. I decided that the recipient would not provoke an AoO because if they can't move anyway, their focus/state doesn't really change, only yours does.

(b) You can hand a potion (or any reasonably-sized easily-accessible item) to an adjacent ally as a standard action on your part and costs an immediate action for the recipient to receive it (assuming they have a free hand). And just because I know the question is gonna get asked the next time I encounter this situation again, I've also decided that using a full round action would allow the character to distribute items to up to 3 adjacent characters. In neither case is an AoO provoked but you might still need to retrieve the items if you don't have them at hand's reach and this does provoke an AoO as normal.