Dex based fighter

[Craven]

Since my net searching eventually and inevitably brings me here, iv decided to cut out the middle man and just join the forums :smallsmile: . So my Dex based fighter build he's currently drawn up for level 6, I have no problem with how he is but was wondering if anyone had any comments, suggestions, concerns ect. or a good idea for a prc or where to go from here. Virtually all 3.5 books allowed just no dragon magazine.

Race: Chaond (using lesser planetouched version so no LA)
Attributes after racial adjustments

Str:11
Dex:24
Con:16
Int:12
Wis:08
Cha:08

lv1 Fighter (hit and run tactics variant DotU, Sneak Attack variant UA)
next five levels are vanilla fighter

feats

flaw:Martial Study (moment of perfect clarity)
flaw:Apprentice (spell caster)
1st: Craven
ftr2: Weapon Finesse
3rd: Martial Study (cloak of Deception)
ftr4: Martial Stance(island of blades)
6th: Shadow blade
ftr6: Two-weapon Fighting

So he adds Dex to damage twice and then his character level (I prefer flat damage boost to extra dice) Moment of perfect clarity gives him Concentration as a class skill so I crank that to subvert wil saves. Apprentice gives him UMD as a class skill which I would crank just because its the most useful skill ever, and later on will give him a lot more options beyond just swinging at something.

So... Where did I go wrong and where can I improve? thanks a bunch for any help.

[Keld Denar]

I think once you choose the SA fighter, you can't swap back and forth on each level with normal fighter. Otherwise you'd just take normal fighter on the even levels (for the bonus feat), and SA fighter on the odd levels (for the SA dice), and lose...nothing.

Also, you have ToB material in there...have you considered taking levels of Warblade after your 6 levels of Fighter? Possibly even changing your levels around to save feats?

Human Warblade 1/Fighter5(eventually 6)/WarbladeX and pick up Able Learner. This'll give you just about everything but UMD.

[Craven]

Im not sure if you are strictly allowed to swap between variants but my DM does allow it. however he treats it as 6 levels of fighter not 3 SA fighter / 3 normal fighter, so i still gain nothing on odd levels and am still down 1 fighter bonus feat in the long run. I originally had levels of warblade but that only gives concentration for warblade levels not my fighter ones and doesnt allow access to shadow hand (what i use two of my martial feats for). Able learner i also considered at one point but it doesnt allow you to put full ranks into a cross class skill it just makes them cost only 1 point. I'm also kind of in love with my racial bonuses. a level or two of swordsage would save me some feats but id lose BAB.

[Human Paragon 3]

Needs Staggering Strike.

When you hit with a sneak attack, they must fort save vs. damage dealt or be staggered. This totally ruins the day of any creature dependent on full attacks (dragons, demons and melee-based humanoids) or mobility (flying creatures, some spellcasters, rogue-types) and makes you the bringer of death to big bosses who already suffer from action economy problems.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Staggering Strike is as good as ^he makes it sounds; but IIRC it needs Weapon focus (any slashing) and BAB 6.

Also swordsage is really good even a 1 level dip will save you a three feats!!! and if you take it level 1 give you a massive increase in skill points, so I really suggest you check consider it.

[hex0]

Staggering Strike is as good as ^he makes it sounds; but IIRC it needs Weapon focus (any slashing) and BAB 6.

Also swordsage is really good even a 1 level dip will save you a three feats!!! and if you take it level 1 give you a massive increase in skill points, so I really suggest you check consider it.

Agreed. Swordsage/Warblade would probably be better since you can pick up Assassin's Stance too

If you are going to play SA Fighter, take Rokugan Ninja instead, please.

[Human Paragon 3]

It does require BAB+6 but not, I believe, Weapon Focus. Even if it did, it would be worth it, IMO, for any bruiser with sneak attack. I had it on a gestalt Fighter // Rogue, and with sneak attack and power attack, nobody EVER passed their saving throw.

[Craven]

Staggering strike is very sexy, not sure how ive never come across it before. However it makes taking that level in swordsage even less appealing due to a lost BAB. However im considering scrapping the UMD thing, its not overly important to the character, honestly i just play a lot of rogues and like having access to wands and such. this should free up some skill points and some gold i planned on spending on an item to increase UMD which could go towards Concentration ranks so perhaps i could live with only 1/2 ranks in it.
As for Rokugan ninja, looks cool but its apparently 3rd party so im not sure if my DM would allow that.

[Godskook]

1.How are you adding dex to damage twice? All I'm seeing is Shadow Blade.

2.You're spending 3 feats on swordsage maneuvers of the 3 feats you're getting as a Fighter. At this point, you're almost literally better off taking Swordsage 5 than Fighter 5. Full BAB isn't worth nearly as much as Wis in light armor is, especially since Swordsage gives Weapon Focus for free, negating a part of the point of full BAB.

3.You're just generally better off taking Swordsage than Fighter for a Dex-based precision-like 'fighter' character.

4.Switching fighter to swordsage allows you to switch your int and wis and maintain the exact same skill points per level as you're currently getting, improving your will, AC, and strike damage(Later on, this includes stuff like Raging Mongoose).

5.If you do go Swordsage, Island of Blades isn't a great stance for him, compared to Child of Shadow(for defense) or Assassin's Stance(for offense, on average 7 damage). You can afford to keep all 3 in the build, allowing you to switch to whichever is most useful that round.

[HunterOfJello]

You could really use a Swordsage 1 dip to save yourself from taking the two martial feats. Swordsage 1 also gives weapon focus for a group of weapons. Whether or not that will allow you to qualify for other feats based on it is up to your DM. So, it could save you 3 feats for 1 level while also giving a bunch of maneuvers, boost to saves, and +1 to initiative.

[Craven]

The second instance of Dex to damage comes from The hit and run tactics variant of fighter from drow of the underdark, it applies only when my opponents are flat footed but the idea is for that to be most of the time anyway. however swordsage is starting to look better i think im going to rework the build taking swordsage levels and repost it. Greatly appreciate everyones input.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Swordsage 1/SA Hit and Run fighter 2/Swordasage +4 is a pretty solid build (Sneak attack fighter is for bump in bab and full time access to craven to allow you to use stances other than assassin stance)

[Elboxo]

One of my favourite setups for a Dexterity warrior is something along the lines of taking feats like:

Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Chain
- 2 Levels in Wolf-Totem Barbarian for Improved Trip, with the Whirling Frenzy Variant
Knockdown
Extra Rage
Combat Expertise/Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack/Whirlwind Attack
Martial Study/Shadow Blade
Power attack
- Optional: Cleave/Great Cleave, Combat Reflexes

This is VERY feat heavy, (13 if you go all the way) so fighter levels are a great help, but what this does get you:

>Spiked chain for reach and the ability to attack enemies right beside you
>The ability to Power Attack everyone within 10 feet and if they take more then 10 damage you get a free trip attempt with a +4 modifier from Improved trip
>Dexterity to damage ( Dex to damage + Powerattack certifies your free trip attempt as long as you hit )
>Boost to AC and reflex saves as well as an extra attack per round from Whirling Frenzy
>Two-Handed Power attack damage because you can wield a spiked chain in both hands

If you go all the way you also get:
>Cleave enemies while they are on the ground and effectively have -4 AC for being prone
>Extra attacks as enemies get up, and then they can no-longer full attack on you, but you get to unleash knockdown on the AGAIN

If you get a friendly wizard to enlarge person on you your range increases to 20 feet....


Edit:
The extra attack from Whirling Frenzy is not usable in the same round as Whirlwind attack, but it does mean you get two chances to get your cleave going, or to knockdown one extra enemy per round

[Godskook]

The second instance of Dex to damage comes from The hit and run tactics variant of fighter from drow of the underdark, it applies only when my opponents are flat footed but the idea is for that to be most of the time anyway. however swordsage is starting to look better i think im going to rework the build taking swordsage levels and repost it. Greatly appreciate everyones input.

1.RAI seems fairly clear to me that those ACFs are for Drow. Talk to your DM to see if he'll let you take them anyway.

2.Regardless, as Dusk Eclipse has mentioned, dipping fighter on an otherwise swordsage chassis is quite a respectable build, and Fighter 1 is really all you're trying to get at.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I beg to differ as those are ACF not racial substitution levels; but as always Y(DM)MMV

[Galorien]

*casts Resurrection*

Maybe im missing it but with the UA sneak attack varient, you lose the bonus feats from being a fighter. or am i missing something?

[herrhauptmann]

*casts Resurrection*

Maybe im missing it but with the UA sneak attack varient, you lose the bonus feats from being a fighter. or am i missing something?



Im not sure if you are strictly allowed to swap between variants but my DM does allow it.
Thread necros are bad.
The answer: You're not allowed to normally, but his DM allowed it.

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff: Please don't resurrect old threads or post in wrongly resurrected threads. Please see the Forum Rules on Thread Necromancy.