How much do you know when you make a save?

[shadow_archmagi]

So, let's say that Wanda Wizard casts Charm Person on Cedric Commoner.

1. If he doesn't see her (Se's casting it silently or something) is he aware that she's casting a spell on him?

2. Is he aware a spell is being cast on him at all? Since there's a will save, that suggests to me some kind of mental duel, which would imply he'd notice, although I suppose it could just be that magic is harder to work on stronger minds (Charming a person could be like wrapping a present, where a big strong mind is that stupid present with all the weird bumps so it's very difficult to do correctly)

3. If the spell *is* noticiable, does Cedric know what he's being hit by, or just that it requires his brain to fend off?

4. Do any of these answers change if the spell is harmless?

EDIT: Do any of these answers change when the spell is Fort or Reflex?

[tyckspoon]

If you pass the save, you know you made a save. That's about it; you don't get any information on what the save was for. If you want to know exactly what you're saving against, you need to be able to see the caster and make a Spellcraft check to recognize his spell. AFAIK the same applies to Fort and Reflex saves, although Reflex at least tends to be a lot more obvious about what the effect you saved against was.

[Yora]

There actually is a tiny bit of info for this hidden in a tiny corner of the magic rules.

A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature’s saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.
And so does the Spellcraft Skill:

DC 25 + spell level: After rolling a saving throw against a spell targeted on you, determine what that spell was. No action required. No retry.
Which refers to a successful save, as on a failed save you can sense the effect of the spell, for which the DC is 20 + spell level.

I assume charm spells are an exception for that, as it would ruin their point. However, you could identify a spell while it is cast where you can see it. Though I have no idea what would happen if you just saw that completely trustworthy person cast charm person even though the two of you are the only people around.

[shadow_archmagi]

So, hypothetical scenario:

Evil Wizard Tim: I am hiding in a shrub nearby!
Fighter Bill: I sure wish I could soar through the air!
Friendly Wizard Albert: I'll just cast Fly on you then. Go ahead and fail your next will save; it's harmless.
Evil Wizard Tim: THIS IS MY CHANCE! SILENT DOMINATE PERSON!
Fighter Bill: Oh, there's the will save I need to ignore!
Fighter Bill: Hmm, I don't think I can fly, but I do feel the urge to kill my family.kill my family.kill my family.kill my family.kill my family.kill my family.

[Douglas]

So, let's say that Wanda Wizard casts Charm Person on Cedric Commoner.

1. If he doesn't see her (Se's casting it silently or something) is he aware that she's casting a spell on him?
No.


2. Is he aware a spell is being cast on him at all? Since there's a will save, that suggests to me some kind of mental duel, which would imply he'd notice, although I suppose it could just be that magic is harder to work on stronger minds (Charming a person could be like wrapping a present, where a big strong mind is that stupid present with all the weird bumps so it's very difficult to do correctly)
If he succeeds on the save, then he knows that he rolled a save against something. If he fails, then he doesn't know anything unless the effect is obvious.


3. If the spell *is* noticiable, does Cedric know what he's being hit by, or just that it requires his brain to fend off?
If he succeeds on the save or notices an obvious effect of the spell, he can make a spellcraft check to attempt to identify it. Identifying just from the save is harder, with DC 25 + level instead of 20+level.


4. Do any of these answers change if the spell is harmless?

EDIT: Do any of these answers change when the spell is Fort or Reflex?
No and no.

[Yora]

So, hypothetical scenario:

Evil Wizard Tim: I am hiding in a shrub nearby!
Fighter Bill: I sure wish I could soar through the air!
Friendly Wizard Albert: I'll just cast Fly on you then. Go ahead and fail your next will save; it's harmless.
Evil Wizard Tim: THIS IS MY CHANCE! SILENT DOMINATE PERSON!
Fighter Bill: Oh, there's the will save I need to ignore!
Fighter Bill: Hmm, I don't think I can fly, but I do feel the urge to kill my family.kill my family.kill my family.kill my family.kill my family.kill my family.
I'd say you can chose to fail a save against specific spells. It's not like taking an action to lower your spell resistance to get buffs from your allies.

[shadow_archmagi]

I'd say you can chose to fail a save against specific spells. It's not like taking an action to lower your spell resistance to get buffs from your allies.

But if you can't identify a spell until after you've saved or not-saved, then you wouldn't be able to distinguish your ally's spells. You'd have to choose whether or not to save based only on the idea that you had been told a harmless spell was coming up.

[Chronos]

One of my favorite uses of Prestidigitation is to give people that tingly feeling like they just passed a save.