The Best Buffs for my Party!

[DragonBaneDM]

Hiya Playground!!!

I don't come to this junglegym often, but when I do there's a ton of cool kids to hang out with with very good advice.

Anywho, I'm playing an Aasimar Cleric who's going Sacred Exorcist some day. I already have Extend and Persist, and I'm slowly learning that my REAL talent is buffing.

So! I'm gonna list my party members, and I want you guys to help me figure out what the best sort of spells for our particular group can be.

Here they are:


Scorch: He's a Halfling Rogue with a crap-ton of Alchemy behind him. Loves to set things on fire. Plans on taking a homebrew Prestige Class built just around chucking Alchemist's Fire and other grenade-type weapons.

Heathcliff: Named after some guy from Withering Heights. She's a Bard 5 or 6 has the Dashing Swordsman PrC from here: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Dashing_Swordsman_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)
Aaaand the Snowflake Wardance Feat. Makes him the most accurate one in the party

Six: A Psion/Fighter mix. Seems to dig burning his power points the first few rounds and then moving into the melee.

Schick: He's a sort of Kenku that's very tall and crane like, and he is a Scout who's constantly thinking about branching out into a different class, but the player's having trouble picking one. Loves him some Multishot.

Morgoth: A Githzerai Monk-variant. The one where you trade Stunning Fist for extra attacks, if any of you are familiar with it. Definately our most damaging party member.


General synopsis is that I'm the only real caster, so I've gotta use my stuff carefully.

Spells that we've had success with:

Mass Aid: The temporary HP are awesome.
Interfaith Blessing: I just sorta dig it. We all get a seperate benefit.
Persisted Lesser Mass Vigor: ...Stupid freaking name, but keeps our 3 melee folks at high HP without me burning other slots.

What do you guys think? I'll take any suggestions about spells I should take to help them out or tips I should give them on their build/strategy.

EDIT: Oh! And I guess I should mention that we're Level 7, though I think Scorch might be a level higher.

[Aegis013]

If your monk is the most damaging party member. He gets Divine Power (4th level spell).
If you have enough turn undeads to do it, or nightsticks (from Libris Mortis) you can persist it. That +6 str and increased BAB are always great.

[Douglas]

If your monk is the most damaging party member. He gets Divine Power (4th level spell).
If you have enough turn undeads to do it, or nightsticks (from Libris Mortis) you can persist it. That +6 str and increased BAB are always great.
Divine Power is personal only.

Let's see, at level 7 you should have access to Recitation. +2 (or 3 if they follow your deity) AC, attack bonus, and saves for the whole party for a 4th level spell. Persistable, and unusual type (luck) that will likely stack with everything they've already got.

In 2 more levels you can bust out (Persistent) Righteous Wrath of the Faithful for +3 morale attack and damage plus a haste-like extra attack.

[DragonBaneDM]

Divine Power is personal only.

Let's see, at level 7 you should have access to Recitation. +2 (or 3 if they follow your deity) AC, attack bonus, and saves for the whole party for a 4th level spell. Persistable, and unusual type (luck) that will likely stack with everything they've already got.

In 2 more levels you can bust out (Persistent) Righteous Wrath of the Faithful for +3 morale attack and damage plus a haste-like extra attack.

AWESOME! I wanted a second opinion on Recitation before I took it. Haste is my absolute favorite non-Cleric list buff, so I've been trying to find something like it. What book can I find Righteous Wrath in?

EDIT: Nevermind... I found it. We all worship different deities, so this spell REALLY doesn't apply to us. Thanks though.

[Meta]

Freedom of movement is that spell that might not be needed in any given day, but when needed is invaluable. Death Ward is the same deal, but can't be used reactively like freedom. Mass shield of faith is a nice buff for a big party, depends on what you're fighting.

IC: Stop relying on long dead nursemaids to solve your problems for you.

[Douglas]

EDIT: Nevermind... I found it. We all worship different deities, so this spell REALLY doesn't apply to us. Thanks though.
You found the Complete Divine version, right? Check Spell Compendium. It's more recent and therefore officially considered the most up-to-date and correct version, and it's a lot more useful.

Recitation also got some minor changes in Spell Compendium.

[DragonBaneDM]

You found the Complete Divine version, right? Check Spell Compendium. It's more recent and therefore officially considered the most up-to-date and correct version, and it's a lot more useful.

Recitation also got some minor changes in Spell Compendium.

Thanks! I didn't know which type to rely on. I'm definately looking forward to grabbing that spell!

[Arcane_Snowman]

Greater Magic Weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicWeaponGreater.htm)

[MesiDoomstalker]

Greater Magic Weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicWeaponGreater.htm)

...with a Chain Metamagic Rod, since its 4th level for clerics :smallannoyed:

[hex0]

Take the Ability Enhancer feat and cast Animalistic Power.

[Dead_Jester]

Not really a full-time buff (unless you enjoy being on the receiving end of improvised weapons from the Dm), but Delay Death (SC, lvl 4) is always good. Also, you don't have to persist it (as it already has a 24 hour duration), but Greater (and later, Superior) Resistance (both SC, lvl 4 and 6) are great buffs to give everyone.

If you are also looking for self buffs, Surge of Fortune (CC, lvl 5) is pretty much +2 to everything, and Consumptive Field (and the greater variant, SC, lvl 4 and 7) pretty much puts your cleric on godmode for the day.

[Meta]

Consumptive and it's improvement(s?) are nasty, but pretty out of character for his hero and highly abusive. Luminous Armor is pretty sexy.

[DragonBaneDM]

Consumptive and it's improvement(s?) are nasty, but pretty out of character for his hero and highly abusive. Luminous Armor is pretty sexy.

Already planning on grabbing Luminous. I'll look into Consumptive! Hex, couldya tell me more about your combo?

[Meta]

I believe Consumptive has the evil and death tags and starts to kill off creatures who are bloodied and you gain stat bumps for it. Can be super strong when paired with some other things. Like a terrarium of crippled slugs.

Animalistic power is +2 to the physical stats. Ability Enhancer is a feat that buffs enhancement bonuses by 2 on transmutation spells. So +4 to str dex con total. That's from memory so feel free to correct me, anyone.

Benediction (clr 2, CC) with some metamagic to spread it around would be helpful methinks.

Some comic I'm forgetting taught me neutralize poison was fairly valuable.

[Orsen]

Swordsage'd on both my answer to the question, and the answer to another question I wanted to ask.

[Gwendol]

Bull's strength and mass bull's strength?

Also, Elation (BoED) has short duration but gives minor boosts to STR, DEX and speed, all which are stackable with your normal buffs. The range is fenomenal though which places it on par with your bard's inspire courage.

[hex0]

Bull's strength and mass bull's strength?


Mass Animalistic power :smallsmile:

[Optimator]

Conviction, Mass is a good one.

[Meta]

On second thought, don't 'grab' luminous, you can spontaneously cast that one.

I'm gonna just keep throwing spells out there to generate some discussion, so feel free to recommend or knock it. Ray of Hope?

[DragonBaneDM]

On second thought, don't 'grab' luminous, you can spontaneously cast that one.

I'm gonna just keep throwing spells out there to generate some discussion, so feel free to recommend or knock it. Ray of Hope?

Just looked it up! Seems neat. I'm not a huge fan of single target buffs, but it's a level one spell, so I can prep it with little consequence.

[Meta]

Some metamagic to spread it around perhaps? Like ya said, low level. Good for ken, and maybe benediction for benji? How many fights in a day usually?

[DragonBaneDM]

Some metamagic to spread it around perhaps? Like ya said, low level. Good for ken, and maybe benediction for benji? How many fights in a day usually?

Right now we're seeing like 3-5. I average about 3 spells a fight, up to 5 in this one against an evil cleric. And then I use around another 3 to patch up whoever doesn't have Vigor on them post-combat.

I'm sure that'll change, though, especially when we gain you and I grab more spells per day. It feels good to kind of be the measuring pole for how much we can recover from!

I can see me extending it, but as of right now I only has 11 Destroy Undead surges per day. If I can nab my PrC soon that'll free up another all day buff for us to use!

[Meta]

Are we using the errated Divine Metamagic or no? I guess that's sorta important. Using the errata would make the mass spells more appealing methinks, but I don't know clerics too well. Perhaps some one more experienced could enlighten me on the finer points.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Are we using the errated Divine Metamagic or no? I guess that's sorta important. Using the errata would make the mass spells more appealing methinks, but I don't know clerics too well. Perhaps some one more experienced could enlighten me on the finer points.

DMM, pre-errata, was only abusive if you got TU on an Arcane chasis and applied it to arcane spells, because as written, it could apply to either. Errata fixed it to be only divine.

DMM: Persist only works on spells with a fixed range (measured in feet instead of close, touch, etc) or personal. So you can make self buffs last all day (CODzilla) or there are a number of spells in SpC available to clerics that are AoE buffs that can be persisted because they have a fixed ranged. Mass Lesser Vigor is one, its a 40 ft. burst upon activating. Theres are stronger version, I can't remember its name, thats exactly the same but grants fast healing 4 instead of 1. Higher level of course.

[Meta]

DMM, pre-errata, was only abusive if you got TU on an Arcane chasis and applied it to arcane spells, because as written, it could apply to either. Errata fixed it to be only divine.

DMM: Persist only works on spells with a fixed range (measured in feet instead of close, touch, etc) or personal. So you can make self buffs last all day (CODzilla) or there are a number of spells in SpC available to clerics that are AoE buffs that can be persisted because they have a fixed ranged. Mass Lesser Vigor is one, its a 40 ft. burst upon activating. Theres are stronger version, I can't remember its name, thats exactly the same but grants fast healing 4 instead of 1. Higher level of course.

I think there's one for 1-4 hp, all with variations of Vigor as the name, so lots of possibilities there. What do you think would be the best way to maximize the quality and quantity of these buffs? My friend has school at the moment, but I have a two week break from work, so I wouldn't mind book scouring to help him out, but I could use a touch of direction.

[MesiDoomstalker]

I think there's one for 1-4 hp, all with variations of Vigor as the name, so lots of possibilities there. What do you think would be the best way to maximize the quality and quantity of these buffs? My friend has school at the moment, but I have a two week break from work, so I wouldn't mind book scouring to help him out, but I could use a touch of direction.

Are avoiding cheese or not?

Cheese options: Have him take Craft Rod and craft a near infinite supply of Nightsticks. Dark Chaos Shuffle (see below).

Non-Cheese options: Holy Reliquary (MiC, 2000 I believe), a single Nightstick (Book of Bad Latin, 7400), Cha booster (4,16,36k), high Cha race (difficult without LA buy off), but loads of Extra Turning feats.

Dark Chaos Shuffle: how it works.

Step 1: Die.
Step 2: Be Reincarnated as an elf (may require multiple deaths and reincarnations, drow will do as well)
Step 3: Reject your new form and Ask a chaotic Cleric or Wiz/Sorc to cast Embrace the Dark Chaos (Fiendish Codex I) to switch all your Elven/Drowish weapon proficiencies to an Abyssal Heritor feats (doesn't matter which).
Step 4: Realize that that same Cleric/Wiz/Sorc can cast Wish and turn you back to your normal race. So do that.
Step 5: Beg the Cleric/Wiz/Sorc to cast Shun the Dark Chaos on your Abyssal Heritor feats and retrain them as Extra Turning.
Step 6: Repeat but make sure you grow a moustache, down a potion of Glibness, and have scrolls of Dominate Monster as back up.
Step 7: Run like hell as books suddenly become projectiles.

[Meta]

Non-cheese would generally be preferable. I think I'm the only one ever who suffered book violence, (I don't even remember why, but I think I was an avenger so couldn't have been too bad) but no need to tempt fate.

The 7 extra turn attempts for 8400 and two items is really helpful though, thanks. He's good on CHA and I imagine he is/will buff it at every point. I believe they're level 8-10 right now.

What about spell selection? Luminous Armor, Vigor variations, and Recitation all seem solid, but what should a typical day's worth of spells look like? I believe he can spontaneous cast from strength and healing, but hopefully he can clarify. This part is as much for my benefit as his, as I'll be playing a homebrew anti-mage class and I usually fall into the tactician role in games.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Non-cheese would generally be preferable. I think I'm the only one ever who suffered book violence, (I don't even remember why, but I think I was an avenger so couldn't have been too bad) but no need to tempt fate.

The 7 extra turn attempts for 8400 and two items is really helpful though, thanks. He's good on CHA and I imagine he is/will buff it at every point. I believe they're level 8-10 right now.

What about spell selection? Luminous Armor, Vigor variations, and Recitation all seem solid, but what should a typical day's worth of spells look like? I believe he can spontaneous cast from strength and healing, but hopefully he can clarify. This part is as much for my benefit as his, as I'll be playing a homebrew anti-mage class and I usually fall into the tactician role in games.

For my CODzilla cleric my morning spell repetoire was:

2 of the following DMM: Persisted: Mass Lesser Vigor (or the highest mass version you can cast if you prefer), Divine Power, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, and one other I'm forgetting at the moment Righteous Might. I only had enough TU to Persist 2 spells so adjust as to what your pool will allow. If he's going for more team buffs, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful (SpC version) and MLV are the way to go.

(Greater) Luminous Armor on my self (I didn't wear armor)

Magic Vestments (on self again).

You could snag a Lesser Chain Metamagic Rod and apply (Greater) Luminous Armor (forgot Chain doesn't work with touch) and Magic Vestments to everybody. If the group has an Wizard, let him cast Greater Magic Weapon using your Lesser Chain Metamagic Rod to apply to everybodies weapons. If not, suck it up and cast it yourself but I'd only apply it to 2 or 3 weapons of the main frontliner bruisers.

Those are your 24 hour or effectivly all day buffs taken care of. Individaul buffs should be chosen based on what you expect for the day.

Go to the graveyard to retrieve a macguffin? Hide from Undead, Death Ward.

A volcano? Energy Immunity and or Resist Energy.

Heroes Feast when your high enough.

[Mooncrow]

And don't forget to use TriadspellSpC on your off days to increase the number of useful buffs you can cast.

[MesiDoomstalker]

And don't forget to use TriadspellSpC on your off days to increase the number of useful buffs you can cast.

Ok, if I read that right, you could triple your spells per day for level 1-3 as long as you prep the same thing every day. Dang! :smalleek:

[Basket Burner]

Channeled Divine Shield. Yes, it's not for the party, it's for you. But you're a divine caster. That makes you a priority target. Dead people help no one. So help yourself help everyone else.

You can also use Reach + Chain to bounce touch spells around.

[LudiDrizzt]

I suddenly feel less guilty about making the Darkness king a Beholder Mage.

[Meta]

Interesting. I feel like I understand this aspect of the class better now, and I feel like Dragonbane may have picked up a few things as well. Thanks :smallsmile:

[DragonBaneDM]

Interesting. I feel like I understand this aspect of the class better now, and I feel like Dragonbane may have picked up a few things as well. Thanks :smallsmile:

Ditto! Thanks guys! This is gonna help my party a lot!