PF. New DM help.

[Mjollnir075]

So, Playground, this is my first post. Spent a long time lurking, but I finally worked up the nerve to post for help.

Here's the deal. I'm next in line for DMing in my group, and I could use some help.
This is my first time DMing, and my first time playing Pathfinder, but I think I can manage. The question I have is sort of a strange one.

My players all asked me to roll up characters for them. I gotta throw together a few simple builds and let them choose from them.

For some info, There are 5 players. Two are new to DnD completely, while two are new to Pathfinder. They say they wish to play some different sorts of characters, those who fit a sweet idea over being optimized.

So, what I need is a few good builds to make a sweet party for these guys.
So far I have rolled up and made a Summoner, which I think is a sweet class.
One of the players asked me if I could import a Thri-Kreen character, more or less for the jump check. I don't know how to import an LA+ race into Pathfinder, so help on that would be appreciated. Anyway..

All character options are open, and I'll allow 3.5 stuff as well. I can figure out character conversions no problem.

So, if anyone one this forum can help a brother out, it would be greatly appreciated.

[BobVosh]

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/monstersAsPCs.html
For monstrous PCs, CR=total LA/HD penalty.

[Dead_Jester]

First things first, congrats for accepting to Dm a game you haven't played before, a lot of potential Dm's get turned away by games they don't, and that's a shame

For the Thri-Kreen, you can probably reduce the LA by at least 1 if you're playing PF, as the races are stronger than the core races.

As for the characters, ask your players what kind of character they want to play (a class here is good, but an idea or a concept are also helpfull) and try to build a balanced group with there preferences in mind. Also, it's not because a class has a name that it's the best way to build a concept; a ninja is much better represented by the swordsage than by the actual ninja class (and also much more useful and entertaining to play).

For the new players, I'd recommend giving them a good assortment of tier 3 classes (not too optimized, but usually pretty good with some versatility, do they can always contribute), so your players have options, but aren't swamped by them. You might want to check out the Pathfinder SRD (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/), as most of the classes under the Base Class tab are pretty good, and there are a lot of variant for most of them and for the core classes.

You'll probably also want some casters, but if none of your more experienced players want to play one, you can build some very simple and effective builds, as long as you keep the amount of spells known in check. As such, spontaneous casters tend to be better for new players, as they tend to be more forgiving and to require less planning.

If you want any more specific help, I'd be happy to oblige.

[Keneth]

There's no point in using LA in Pathfinder. At best you should make the player "work off" some fixed extra XP to account for his starting strength. Say a 5000XP "debt" that will be negligible in a few levels just like the bonuses they get from the race. If you still feel that the advantage is too much, you can tone down the racial abilities a bit to bring it more in line with existing races while keeping most of the flavor.

[Cole10000]

While I myself am still pretty new to the whole DM game I do have some advice that might be usefull.

1. One of the biggest things is balance between the characters, at least at the begining. It eliminates the one person always feeling left out because he just isnt up to snuff.

2. Createivity, within reason. You want to create something that'll be rememorable, if the players refer to whatever as the "thing" or "that guy" then it's not working. by within reason i meant that keep the names and such simple yet memorable so the players feel more into the game.

3. Create the characters based on what you know about the people you're playing with, make it so everyone picking has a choice one and two that they would like to be, nothing sucks smore than getting stuck with a character you don't like.

If this helped your welcome. If it didn't sorry i couldn't, ya know help

[Mjollnir075]

Hey guys, thanks for the responses. I kind of like the idea of the XP debt, so I'll probably use that in conjunction with reducing the LA to 1.

As for the party classes, I just heard back from all 5 players. It would seem all the players are interested in playing the Pathfinder specific classes or an archetype of a base class that sets a base class apart.

As I said, I made a Summoner already, but I would ask for a little help with the Eidolon. The idea was that it would be a hulking brute who wields 4 weapons in his 4 arms, plus an acid damage, reach bite attack. Any tips on that would be nice.

As for the other classes, I was thinking of making a Rage Chemist, with the goal being to get into the Master Chymist, making him a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde style character. Is this workable/interesting?

I have yet to really check out the divine casters, so I'm not quite sure which class is both fully functional and also good RP material.

Also, In relation to my earlier query about Thri-Kreen, the player did show interest in playing a Monk. Yes, I realize that it's rather underwhelming, but a high jumping, four armed monk character sounds interesting, which is good enough for me.

Like I said, any awesome character concepts that focus on new things in Pathfinder is what I'm really looking for.

Thanks.

[Keneth]

I kind of like the idea of the XP debt, so I'll probably use that in conjunction with reducing the LA to 1. Skip the LA altogether, this was a bad system to begin with, hence it doesn't exist in Pathfinder. The XP debt will delay that character for the first 3 or 4 levels and after that it won't be much of a hassle for that player anymore, which is exactly what you want. Alternatively use only a reduced LA (+1) and allow the player to reduce it as described in UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm). Ultimately this achieves about the same result.

[Dead_Jester]

As I said, I made a Summoner already, but I would ask for a little help with the Eidolon. The idea was that it would be a hulking brute who wields 4 weapons in his 4 arms, plus an acid damage, reach bite attack. Any tips on that would be nice.


For this, the Eidolons really needs the improved multiattack or it will end up doing a flurry of misses. For the rest of the build, think of him as a twf meleer, but more badass, so investing and specializing in a single weapon could be worthwhile (either build him as a PA monster with 2 two handers, or a crit machine gun with 4 weapons). Here, depending on how optimized you want to be, getting aptitude kukris (and/or rapiers) could be fun, as it allows you to treat your weapon as any other weapon for the purpose of meeting prerequisites (such as being a light mace for lightning mace :smallwink:). As for the caster himself, he's a summoner so giving him feats that improve that is a great place to start. However, hes also a medium bab, and his spell list contains a few good buffs (including haste as a level 2 spell) so you could also build him as a buffer/off melee.


As for the other classes, I was thinking of making a Rage Chemist, with the goal being to get into the Master Chymist, making him a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde style character. Is this workable/interesting?

This is in fact quite workable, as the mutagen ability and the class's chassis make a melee build quite viable (especially with ragechemist). The mutagen also has the nice side effect of ruining your mental ability scores for a while, further reinforcing the bipolarity. However, if you want to build an alchemist, I would seriously recommend letting them use the bomb ability at-will, as it has been demonstrated in the past (with both the warlock and the dragonfire adept) that hurling around 1d6/2 levels all day long is not game breaking, and it lets the player use his ability without fear of running out.


I have yet to really check out the divine casters, so I'm not quite sure which class is both fully functional and also good RP material.

The inquisitor is a pretty good caster/fighter hybrid, but it probably requires some sort of in-world framework to support it (unless the character is a freelance witch/monster/bounty hunter). The oracle is a spontaneous cleric with a unique form of domains, and is, of course, the perfect medium with which to drop clues (or prophetic visions) for the party.


Also, In relation to my earlier query about Thri-Kreen, the player did show interest in playing a Monk. Yes, I realize that it's rather underwhelming, but a high jumping, four armed monk character sounds interesting, which is good enough for me.

If your player wants to play a monk, but you think he may end up being underwhelming, I recommend either proposing an unarmed swordsage (with the right build, you can do everything a monk does, and do it better with more style, and Thri-Kreens love the Tiger Claw discipline), or a Tashalatora psychic warrior (tashalatora is a feat from Secrets of Sarlona that lets your levels from a psionic class stack with your monk levels for your unarmed damage, your ac bonus and your flurry of blows); the psychic warrior levels make the character more versatile while keeping the style of the monk. However, neither of these builds are from Pathfinder but then again, monks don't seem to get a lot of love from anyone...

[gourdcaptain]

If your player wants to play a monk, but you think he may end up being underwhelming, I recommend either proposing an unarmed swordsage (with the right build, you can do everything a monk does, and do it better with more style, and Thri-Kreens love the Tiger Claw discipline), or a Tashalatora psychic warrior (tashalatora is a feat from Secrets of Sarlona that lets your levels from a psionic class stack with your monk levels for your unarmed damage, your ac bonus and your flurry of blows); the psychic warrior levels make the character more versatile while keeping the style of the monk. However, neither of these builds are from Pathfinder but then again, monks don't seem to get a lot of love from anyone...

From what I've heard, a Quinggong (I probably spelled that wrong) Monk archetype Monk has some actual usefulness in PF. Alternately, consider Dreamscarred's Psionic Fist PrC on the SRD. The entry kinda sucks, but getting Hustle/Psionic Lion's Charge at least lets you move and flurry. (And being psionic does fit Thri-Kreen fluff, so making them Naturally Psionic ala Elans and such could fit. (Some 3.5e Thri-Kreen writeups are already I think, some aren't.))

[The Glyphstone]

From what I've heard, a Quinggong (I probably spelled that wrong) Monk archetype Monk has some actual usefulness in PF. Alternately, consider Dreamscarred's Psionic Fist PrC on the SRD. The entry kinda sucks, but getting Hustle/Psionic Lion's Charge at least lets you move and flurry. (And being psionic does fit Thri-Kreen fluff, so making them Naturally Psionic ala Elans and such could fit. (Some 3.5e Thri-Kreen writeups are already I think, some aren't.))

Quingong Monk and Hungry Ghost Monk are both very potent archtypes, easily T4s in their own right.

[Dead_Jester]

Quingong Monk and Hungry Ghost Monk are both very potent archtypes, easily T4s in their own right.

Well, they are stronger than the normal monk, but the Qinggong is limited by the relatively small ki pool of the monk, and the Hungry Ghost doesn't fix the primary issues of the monk; it only adds more durability.

However, it could be interesting to combine both, as Qinggond doesn't require you to transform every ability possible, and Hungry Ghost only requires 2 of the 11 abilities that can be used for Qinggond. This combination would enable the monk to regain lost ki and spend it on more powerful abilities. You'd only need to find a way to make kukris a monk weapon to get a pretty good build.

[The-Mage-King]

So, Playground, this is my first post. Spent a long time lurking, but I finally worked up the nerve to post for help.

Awesome. Welcome to the board!



Here's the deal. I'm next in line for DMing in my group, and I could use some help.
This is my first time DMing, and my first time playing Pathfinder, but I think I can manage. The question I have is sort of a strange one.

My players all asked me to roll up characters for them. I gotta throw together a few simple builds and let them choose from them.

For some info, There are 5 players. Two are new to DnD completely, while two are new to Pathfinder. They say they wish to play some different sorts of characters, those who fit a sweet idea over being optimized.


Hm... What do the two new to PF usually play?



So, what I need is a few good builds to make a sweet party for these guys.
So far I have rolled up and made a Summoner, which I think is a sweet class.
One of the players asked me if I could import a Thri-Kreen character, more or less for the jump check. I don't know how to import an LA+ race into Pathfinder, so help on that would be appreciated. Anyway..


Summoner is always solid. What's the Thri-Kreen's class?


All character options are open, and I'll allow 3.5 stuff as well. I can figure out character conversions no problem.

So, if anyone one this forum can help a brother out, it would be greatly appreciated.


Alrighty then, here are some suggestions for a fun party-


Quingong-Hungry Ghost Monk, because weaboo kung-fu magic.

A Magus (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus). Bladebound Archetype, too.

Some form of Skill Monkey- be it Rogue, Bard, or Ninja. I'd recommend a Bard of some sort. Probably Archeologist or Songhealer, too.

A psionicist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed). Dreamscarred Press knows what they're doing with this stuff, and it should be fun to run.

Cavalier (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier). Seems like it'd be fun to play, especially with, you know, the Musketeer Archetype.

[Dead_Jester]

Thri-Kreen is a race of anthropomorphic insects (so they get 4 arms) with decent stats and a huge bonus to jump check. There first 3rd edition stats were in MM2, and they reappeared in ExpPsi.

[The-Mage-King]

Thri-Kreen is a race of anthropomorphic insects (so they get 4 arms) with decent stats and a huge bonus to jump check. There first 3rd edition stats were in MM2, and they reappeared in ExpPsi.

Already known to me. I was wondering about what class it is- somerthing that'd help me suggest one.

And, after double checking on revious posts, I'd have to agree about unarmed Swordsage- it is wonderful for Thri-Kreen.

[Dead_Jester]

Already known to me. I was wondering about what class it is- somerthing that'd help me suggest one.

And, after double checking on revious posts, I'd have to agree about unarmed Swordsage- it is wonderful for Thri-Kreen.

Sorry about the confusion.

Also, depending on the party's orientation, you could always look at the Soul Eater prc (from BoVD). It synergies wonderfully with Thri-Kreen (four arms and a bite :smallwink:), and the fluff fits with the Qinggong-Hungry Ghost Monk option presented earlier (I'd recommend either a 12/8 or a 13/7 build, entering soul eater as soon as possible). This guy could get pretty mean, and at 9th level of Soul Eater, you can start your very own wight apocalypse for fun and profit.

[Keneth]

As I understand it, OP's group is playing Pathfinder with the exception of the Thri-Kreen race which was requested by one of the players. So he's probably not looking for suggestions from 3.5 splatbooks.

[Dead_Jester]

Actually, at the end of the of his original post, Mjollnir that he'd allow 3.5 stuff as well.

Also, Mjollnir, is there an overarching theme or style that should unify the characters?

If we follow what you have proposed, we have a battle chemist, a Thri-Kreen monk and a summoner with a melee monster. This party only really needs a divine caster, and the fifth class could be whatever suits the players best (although a full arcane caster or a good buffer, like a bard, could come in handy). This should give you a good spread of utility and of variety, and the power gap between characters should be pretty easy to minimize.

[Keneth]

Actually, at the end of the of his original post, Mjollnir that he'd allow 3.5 stuff as well. Sorry about that, I'm retarded. I need to stop reading 10 threads at the same time. :smallbiggrin:

I just figured since he's new to pathfinder, he'd be sticking to it without having to deal with conversions. But on the other hand, the players said they want to play Pathfinder-specific classes, so I guess I was partially right.

[Mjollnir075]

Wow, I just have to say that you guys helped way more than I thought possible.
These ideas are great. I appreciate the warm welcome as well.

Now, down to brass tacks..

My players told me they would be fine with whatever I rolled up for 'em. They are all really laid back people who are more interested in RP'ing a sweet character in a sweet campaign than being able to lay waste to any obstacle I throw their way.

As far as a unifying character theme, they are supposed to be mercenaries hailing from different lands, different races and different backgrounds brought together for the love of gold and adventure. Homebrewed world, with chunks from different settings, like the airships from Eberron.

So, Summoner with hulking 4-armed monster. Kukri aptitude with keen kukris sounds like the business. Where can I find the Imp. Multiattack feat?

Ragechemist/Master Chymist does indeed sounds cool. If you guys agree that making bomb attacks is at-will is superior, I'll allow it. (In case you guys can't tell, I'm pretty laid back. I would rather my players play awesome characters they like and adjust the campaign a bit to compensate)

Unarmed Swordsage Thri-Kreen also sounds awesome. I have a general understanding of the classes though, thanks to the Playground. I don't have a copy of ToB, but I can get a hold of it from a friend. Now, I took a gander at the Soul Eater PRC, and it is frightening. I like it. Can I incorporate that into the Unarmed Swordsage?

For the Divine character, maybe the Oracle? The mysteries seem pretty interesting. Any suggestions for good ones? I dunno what kind of character role to have this fill though. Heal-focused seems the most useful, but perhaps not the most fun..

As for the last class..

Is the Witch any good? I was looking at some of the hexes and they seem interesting, and I noticed that only a couple give a daily limit. So, from what I can tell, the death dealing level 18 hex could be used against a group of people (one at a time, obviously) and would probably drop quite a few, but I digress..

Anyway, I realize that it was a lot to take in, but any additional input would be just awesome.

Thanks again, guys.

[Dead_Jester]

So, Summoner with hulking 4-armed monster. Kukri aptitude with keen kukris sounds like the business. Where can I find the Imp. Multiattack feat?

Its available on the d20 SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedMultiattack). You might also want to look at the Enervating enchantment (MiC, +2) or it's upgraded version, Souldrinking (BoVD, +4)


Ragechemist/Master Chymist does indeed sounds cool. If you guys agree that making bomb attacks is at-will is superior, I'll allow it. (In case you guys can't tell, I'm pretty laid back. I would rather my players play awesome characters they like and adjust the campaign a bit to compensate)

Well, giving it to him at-will is definitely superior, but it isn't overpowered (hell, the rogue gets as much damage on every attack, plus his weapon damage).


Unarmed Swordsage Thri-Kreen also sounds awesome. I have a general understanding of the classes though, thanks to the Playground. I don't have a copy of ToB, but I can get a hold of it from a friend. Now, I took a gander at the Soul Eater PRC, and it is frightening. I like it. Can I incorporate that into the Unarmed Swordsage?

You can combine them, and if you do, I recommend focusing on the Tiger Claw and Shadow Hand disciplines, as they synergise well with both Thri-Kreen and Soul Eater (both can use claws/unarmed attacks as a discipline weapon, and Tiger Claw has some maneuvers dependent on Jump). As and added bonus, both disciplines have a lot of maneuverability powers.


For the Divine character, maybe the Oracle? The mysteries seem pretty interesting. Any suggestions for good ones? I dunno what kind of character role to have this fill though. Heal-focused seems the most useful, but perhaps not the most fun..

I'd recommend against focusing on healing, as healing in combat is always inferior to killing stuff (damage prevention instead of damage control), and until you get to Heal, you can't really heal more than the amount of damage done to a single target. As for Mysteries, I'd recommend either Ancestor, Battle or Dark Tapestry.

As for spell selection, the cleric spell list is full of great buffs, so a buffing build it's quite viable.


As for the last class..

Is the Witch any good? I was looking at some of the hexes and they seem interesting, and I noticed that only a couple give a daily limit. So, from what I can tell, the death dealing level 18 hex could be used against a group of people (one at a time, obviously) and would probably drop quite a few, but I digress..

Anyway, I realize that it was a lot to take in, but any additional input would be just awesome.

Thanks again, guys.

The witch is decent, the hex's are a good mix of debuffs and other utility, but the classes loses a lot of the best buffs and crowd control spells from the wizard spell list. It's really up to you, the witch is like a non-flashy wizard, so you need to think a bit more, but the class seems quite playable.

[Mjollnir075]

Hm. You're right. Witch doesn't seem all too special.

The-Mage-King mentioned the Bladebound Magus. I just checked it out, and though the Black Blade seems cool, I'm not overly impressed. Is there some feats/abilities that play well with it?

Also mentioned was a Musketeer Cavelier. Now, I said in my first post that I am pretty unfamiliar with PF, but my understanding from other threads is that guns just arent that great. I mean, I totally plan on having them in the campaign, but I wouldn't want the player to fall too far back damage-wise.

What about.. PF Soulknife?

[Larpus]

Hold the presses!!

Ragechemist is a trap, don't fall for it!!

Alchemist has Will as a bad save and absolutely no need for Wis, as a result the player is very likely to fail the Will check when he takes damage and get his Will and Int sink fast, eventually resulting in the PC being in a bad shape for hours (if not unconscious and just sitting there bored). All that for an epic +2 Str...weee....and it only gets worst from there.

If you're looking for a melee-focused Alchemist, look into Beastmorph and/or Vivisectionist (they can be comboed together if you'd like), the former trades most poison-related abilities for access to things like darkvision, fly and pounce when in mutagenic form.

The latter trades bombs for sneak attack and makes a very good and sturdy "thug" Rogue type of character. In fact, the Alchemist has Disable Device and Perception as class skills and is a caster, so if there is no Rogue, you can allow him to disable magical traps.

Even vanilla is better than Ragechemist, but for a melee-focused one, my personal advice and favorite is the Vivisectionist as bombs as they are won't be of much use for a meleer. If however you prefer to not have a "Roguechemist", make sure to suggest the Breath Weapon Bomb discovery into the build, it's not the greatest since everything gets a Reflex for half, but can be a decent mook destroyer.

Master Chymist is a very nice and RP-fitting idea tho, but sadly it completely loses its appeal after 2-5 levels (personally I feel that going beyond 2 or 3 levels is sort of a waste), it gets better if you allow for regular discoveries in place of advanced mutagens if so desired, but even so reverting to Alchemist is still overall a better idea.

That's it for my two cents, the presses can keep running now.

[Mjollnir075]

Wow. Looking back on the Rage Chemist, you are totally right. If the Strength continued to increase while taking damage or you only lost Int once, it would be ok, but that is way too risky. Wade into melee, get hit a few times and fall into a coma. Bleh.

So, is there any other way to pump up the mutagen ability without severely crippling this character?

[Larpus]

Beatmorph (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo---alchemist-archetypes/beastmorph), as mentioned, upgrades it by adding abilities, starting with some rather minor and trivial like darkvision or scent by level 3, but at 6 it gives flight (pretty invaluable for a melee), at 10 the ever so desired pounce is available and then at 14 it peaks with breath weapon, grab and trip. Every earlier abilities are available as well. All he trades for this is everything the class has poison related (ironically except the ability to use poisons itself), since poisons aren't that great, this is a good trade IMHO.

Other than that, there are some discoveries available, Feral Mutagen (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/discoveries/paizo---alchemist-discoveries/feral-mutagen) gives the Alchemist 3 natural attacks, two claws (same damage as shortswords) and a bite (longsword), do note that natural attacks are quite awesome in PF as they're all considered primary (unless noted) and made at full BAB (very invaluable for anyone, but especially 3/4 classes), also considerably better than any weapon he can use by default.

And there are also the Greater (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/discoveries/paizo---alchemist-discoveries/greater-mutagen) and Grand Mutagen (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/discoveries/paizo---alchemist-discoveries/grand-mutagen) discoveries which increase the bonuses as well as the amount of scores that can be enhanced.

Also, it's important to mention that even without any augmentation, Mutagen is already pretty powerful as it lasts for 10min/level and there is nothing stopping the Alchemist from taking multiple Mutagen doses as long as he takes the 1 hour needed to prepare a new dose.

Other than that, Spontaneous Healing (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/discoveries/paizo---alchemist-discoveries/spontaneous-healing-ex) is a pretty decent discovery for a melee as it gives you an extra 5 "pool HP" per two levels (as long as he survives the blast, this is 150% better than Toughness), Wings (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/discoveries/paizo---alchemist-discoveries/wings-ex) gives fly for 1min/level without spending spell slots and Tentacle (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/discoveries/paizo---alchemist-discoveries/tentacle-ex) gives a grab attack, which is pretty nice to shut off enemy casters.

And make sure he grabs Infusion (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/discoveries/paizo---alchemist-discoveries/infusion) as that allows him to share his spells with others (that includes spells that otherwise would be self-only).

Another cool trick that my DM has allowed as being an "intelligent trick" (but ymmw) is that an Alchemist's extract remain potent for 24 hours (forever with Infusion) and takes up a daily slot while they're potent, however, the wording makes it seem like, once the extract is used/destroyed, it stops spending a daily slot and actually gives you said slot back, so by preparing but not spending couple extracts on the last day, an Alchemist can multiply the amount of spells he can use in any given day.

[Mjollnir075]

It's settled then. Beastmorph it is. An Beastmorph Alchemist who has a beastly alter ego (Master Chemist). I like it.

So, that leads us to one last character.

The team thus far being Summoner, Oracle, Thri-Kreen Unarmed Swordsage, and Beastmorph Alchemist.

Should I just make them Humans (except for the Kreen, obviously)? Feats and skill points are always useful.

The last character can be just about anything, it would seem. Magus was presented as an option, but not being familiar with the class, I'm not sure. Maybe something with a little more buff-age? Maybe a more caster-ish class.

Everyone says that PF Psionics are good, but I haven't read that either..
Psychic Warrior? Psion?

I just don't know..

[Larpus]

The Alchemist's entire spell selection is buff-themed and, as a half-caster, he can use wands and other spell trigger items of any spell in his list (the full list, this is not limited to spells he actually knows himself, this is also true for his cousins Summoner, Magus and Inquisitor).

Also, consider to either couple the Beastmorph with Vivisectionist (www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo---alchemist-archetypes/vivisectionist) or give him the Breath Weapon Bomb (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/discoveries/paizo---alchemist-discoveries/breath-weapon-bomb) discovery as I said before, otherwise one of his class features will be rather useless.

Vivisectionist adds the fun fluff of him studying animals through his career (mad scientist style, of course) and at some point noticing that humans are very similar to animals, so not only he gets sneak attack, but he also gets to use Knowledge (nature) instead of Heal to make Heal checks. At later levels he also can mimic the Island of Dr. Moreau and make anthropomorphic and intelligent animals. This is borderline evil, I know, but considering that the whole fluff of Alchemists is a crazy person who experiments with his own body (discoveries when not bomb-related are just that), I'd personally say that no Alchemist can be better than neutral as far as the good-evil axis goes.

Breath Weapon gives his bombs some better use by increasing the amount of targets it affects and allowing him to use them while in melee. Also it reinforces the fluff of a bestial (dragon maybe?) themed character.

Also, don't underestimate the bombs too much, they're considerably more than "just 1d6/2 levels", any bomb-focused Alchemist will by level 8 throw 3+ bombs, so that's at least (1d6/2 levels +Int)x3 in a round and with some splash damage, that's considerably better than many blast spells and it can be enhanced with weapon-related feats such as Arcane Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/arcane-strike-combat) and Deadly Aim (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/deadly-aim-combat).

Not to mention that it is very possible to add debuff effects to the bombs in addition or in detriment of damage (depends on the desired debuff) which, with a DC of 10 + 1/2 Alchemist level + Int, is about the same as a Wizard using his most powerful spell level at even levels, except the Alchemist can do it more times per day at the expense of not being quite as versatile.

I do agree, however, that they're considerably less deadly than Paizo considered them, so if you plan to make multiple combats/day, it is a very good idea to double the amount of bombs the Alchemist throws per day, so now it's (Alchemist level +Int)x2 and the Extra Bombs feat adds 4 bombs instead of 2.

Magus is another very strong class, with a Wizard-like spell list and ability to use weapons, armor, cast his spells in the face of enemies and a high damage output. Or forgo the extra damage from spells and focus on debilitating enemies while maintaining the standard melee guy DpR. Arcane Pool is also a very cool and nice ability as it's essentially very early access to magic weaponry and it can either allow you to save a few bucks and postpone your actually magic weapon or couple your innate bonus with it and effectively get early +3-10 weapons. Also, never forget that changing the handling on a weapon is a free action, so a Magus who is casting and punishing can cast his spell and, as a free action, put his free action on the weapon to attack with it two-handed, in fact he can actually use two-handed weapons as he only needs one hand to hold them (two are only needed to swing). And much like the Alchemist and the lasting time of extracts trick, the Magus can considerably increase his spells/day with Spell Recall, the only difference is that the Alchemist is a trick and may be prohibited (it's not incredibly overpowered tho, so I see no reason to do that), the Magus is actual RAW.

Another cool thing with the Magus is that, while he is melee-focused, he also fares very well in ranged combat, possibly being the best basis to make an Arcane Archer since you don't give up any spellcasting progression, your BAB will be very respectable compared to the standard Fighter/Wizard and your bonuses from Arcane Pool stack with Arcane Archer's and both stack with weapon bonuses, giving you easy access to +15 bows.

Also, consider offering the Inquisitor as the divine guy (or secondary divine guy), it's a pretty cool class and quite at-home with the other half-casters, standing on a healthy middle between the more martial Paladin and the more tier1 Cleric. And despite being ranged-focused/themed, he fares as well, if not better, in melee. It'd also be very interesting to have a full team of half-casters, it works considerably better than it sounds.

And last but not least, unlike the Bard, Inquisitor and Summoner, the Alchemist and the Magus are learned casters, which means that, unlike his spontaneous cousins, they're not stuck with their selected at level up spells and can potentially learn every spell on their list.

EDIT: Forgot to mention races and another thing: the only PF-only full-casters are Witches and Oracles. There is nothing wrong with a Witch, it does play considerably similar to a Wizard, but is different enough to hold its ground and have its charm.

As for races (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races), PF has considerably improved a lot of them, out of the standard ones, every single one ends up with a +2 and Half-Elves and Half-Orcs are actually playable now as they get a floating +2 to any stat (same as Human) and other tricks, Dwarves are as hardy and martial as ever, Elves are actually more magical-inclined than before, I do feel like the Gnomes and Halflings kinda got the short end of the stick (pun intended), but Gnomes are still quite interesting and powerful on their own might when making casters or similar. And keep attention to the alternate racial features and alternate racial favored class bonuses for some cool combinations.

That said, Humans still remain undisputed as the standard "makes a good anything" and is not a half-bad idea to make a team full of humans.

[Curious]

Also, never forget that changing the handling on a weapon is a free action, so a Magus who is casting and punishing can cast his spell and, as a free action, put his free action on the weapon to attack with it two-handed, in fact he can actually use two-handed weapons as he only needs one hand to hold them (two are only needed to swing).

I don't think this is actually the case. The Spell Combat ability states that, 'to use this ability, the magus must have one hand free, while wielding a light or one handed melee weapon in the other.' Note that the ability to make a full attack in conjunction with the spell is actually a part of Spell Combat, meaning you must wield the weapon in one hand throughout its use.

It's because of this and their light armor proficiency that the Dervish Dance (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dervish-dance-combat) feat is quite good for Magi, allowing them to use Dex to hit and damage in place of Str.

Any Magus should also do this:
At 5th level, grab the Experimental Spellcaster (http://http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/words-of-power) feat (found lower on the page) and pick Accelerate (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/words-of-power/effect-words/accelerate) as your Effect word chosen. Grab Persistent (http://dnd.savannahsoft.eu/feat-2142-persistent-spell.html) metamagic (3.0 version) if you can, and apply it to Accelerate. You now have a permanent extra move action, allowing you to move and full attack.

[Larpus]

I don't think this is actually the case. The Spell Combat ability states that, 'to use this ability, the magus must have one hand free, while wielding a light or one handed melee weapon in the other.' Note that the ability to make a full attack in conjunction with the spell is actually a part of Spell Combat, meaning you must wield the weapon in one hand throughout its use.
Hmmm...good point, 2-handed weapons are out, but it still seems to be a DM call whether or not you actually need the hand free through the whole deal since it's said that you can cast the spell before or after the attacks, but not between them.

[Keneth]

Grab Persistent (http://dnd.savannahsoft.eu/feat-2142-persistent-spell.html) metamagic (3.5 version) That's the 3.0 version, 3.5 version is +6 to spell level and therefore unusable by magus.

[Curious]

That's the 3.0 version, 3.5 version is +6 to spell level and therefore unusable by magus.

Ah, well. Don't tell your DM that. :smalltongue:

[Keneth]

Ah, well. Don't tell your DM that. :smalltongue:DMs are kind of like women - they'll find out eventually and then love is over. :smallbiggrin: