The Breather! Breath-Weapon Focused Character

[MesiDoomstalker]

I got this idea in my head about Dragonborn and their breathweapon. Its pretty awesome, imho. It scales in size and damage by HD (though not much damage) plus can be acid, lightning, fire, or cold damage depending on the situation. So I decided to make a breath-weapon focused character as the title suggests. Now I know, Dragonfire Adept is better for this as I get class features on top of a no-recharge breath weapon. But I don't want to use it. I don't particularly like the class. Plus, I decided to do Sorcerer, for extra dragon-themed goodness, and get use of the breath-weapon spells that I always look over in Draconomicon, Dragon Magic, and SpC. Here's what I'm thinking at the moment.

Dragonborn Dwarf Sorcerer X:
Takes the first 2 Dragon-Blooded sub levels and the 9th level Dwarf sub level for SAD goodness. Dwarf Cha penalty matters much less as I won't be throwing around spells with saves a lot and my Con will be pumped to high heaven. This gives me Dragon Heritage Feat, an SLA 3/day of one spell of the second highest level spell I can cast (cost, spell slot of highest and second highest) and remove it from spells known, and Con+Cha for determing bonus spells and +4 compentence bonus on K: Arcana. Not really sure what dragon to take my Heritage for, but I'm leaning Fang. Do the spells known for a particular Heritage automatically add to my list or what? I'm not sure what that column is for.

On feats:
I know there are metabreath feats and breath channeling feats but I'm not sure which are useful. Quiken Breath, Recover Breath, and Entangling Exhalation all seem good. Are there any others that are of note and/or viable? What about Strafing Breath (assuming I can use Fly for pre-req), it requires Fly-By Attack and Fly-By Breath as pre-reqs so its pretty feat intensive but if I combine with shape breath and other metabreaths and a breath-spell, I can hit a lot of things with heavy debuffs. Any other feats I should consider?

On spells:
Considering I'm a Sorcerer, I'll be extremely limited in spells known. Having more or less ignored any spell designed for a breath weapon, I'm not sure which are useful. What spells would be good to take for this kind of character? What would be good spells, 1-8, to use as my SLA?
Not a particluarly breath spell but Wings of Cover and Flurry are some pretty awesome Sorcerer spells.
Dragon's Breath (SpC) gives me another Breath weapon to work with.
Flight of the Dragon (Draco) is thematic and gives me flying.
Breath Flare (SpC) looks underwhelming.
Rebuking Breath (SpC) for pesky undead.
Blinding Breath (SpC) looks good, blinding is awesome!
Dispelling Breath (SpC), AoE Dispel magic with all other Breathweapon goodies? Yes please!
Breath Weapon Substitution (SpC) can be used with alternative breathes I may obtain I guess.Ethereal Breath (SpC) is for ghosts and.......ghosts.
(Greater) Stunning Breath (SpC) looks awesome!
Aura of Evasion (SpC) is useful to avoid friendly fire.
Animate Breath (SpC) looks...interesting.
Enervating Breath Weapon (SpC) is just juicy!
Breath Weapon Admixture (SpC) is a metamagic feat for a breath weapon and is 9th level... what were they thinking!?


On equipment:
Items of Con and Cha are a given. Are there any items that affect breath weapons? Like breath-spells, I've only glanced over an item meant for a dragon.

On PrCs:
Any PrC thats good for a Sorcerer should be good for this character but are there any thematic ones (besides Dragon Disciple)? I've looked at Dragolexi in RoD and it looks good (besides the lost CL). Dragonheart mage (RoD) should be what I'm looking for, but all it does is give me more Draconic Feats (not that awesome), ability to burn spells for a no-recharge breath weapon at the cost of 2 CL (yikes! :smalleek:).

[Tvtyrant]

Animated Breath is really weak IMO. You should totally get Dragon's Breath so that you can apply your massive amount of feat investment on two attacks a battle rather than one.

The best metabreaths IMO are Maximize, Empower, Clinging/Lingering, and Quicken breath. Stacking a lot of these at the same time is the most devastating way to use them.

You forgot Breathe Weapon Admixture for doubling your breathes damage (and works with Maximize!) plus making it more than one type of energy.

[Morph Bark]

Why a dwarven sorcerer, if I may ask? What do the racial sub levels do? I'd figure there are some races with a greater Con bonus that could work just as well (lesser ice or lesser ooze genasi, though the latter gets a hefty Cha penalty, same as Mongrelfolk) or with an equal Con bonus without a Cha penalty (or a Cha bonus even).

[MesiDoomstalker]

Why a dwarven sorcerer, if I may ask? What do the racial sub levels do? I'd figure there are some races with a greater Con bonus that could work just as well (lesser ice or lesser ooze genasi, though the latter gets a hefty Cha penalty, same as Mongrelfolk) or with an equal Con bonus without a Cha penalty (or a Cha bonus even).

My key stats are Con for the save on my breath weapon and Cha because of sorcerer. The 9th level sub level for Dwarf lets me add my Cha bonus and Con bonus together to determine my bonus spells. Example: If my Con mod is 6 and my Cha mod is 4, I gain bonus spells as if I had a Cha mod of 10. Its just synergy and slighly more SAD. Since Cha just needs to be high enough to cast my spells (19 by 18th level=super easy) I can pump Con, reap extra HP and higher breathweapon save for my breath-spells, like Dispelling and Stunning. I'm not married to Dwarf Dragonborn combo but the combo just the first thing that popped into my head.


Animated Breath is really weak IMO. You should totally get Dragon's Breath so that you can apply your massive amount of feat investment on two attacks a battle rather than one.

The best metabreaths IMO are Maximize, Empower, Clinging/Lingering, and Quicken breath. Stacking a lot of these at the same time is the most devastating way to use them.

You forgot Breathe Weapon Admixture for doubling your breathes damage (and works with Maximize!) plus making it more than one type of energy.

I don't think Empower/Maximize would be too great. My breathweapon scales in damage slower than the good blasting spells so I'm not sure how much they are of worth. Clinging/Lingering sound interesting so I'm relevant for more than 1 round of combat.

On Breath Weapon Admixture, at 18th level, my will be doing 6d8 damage, so thats 12d8 (half and half damage) even with Maximize and Empower, is still very subpar for a 9th level spell. 7th ya, 8th maybe, but definatly not 9th. It just doesn't shape up for things like Time Stop or Shapechange.

[NeoSeraphi]

Why a dwarven sorcerer, if I may ask? What do the racial sub levels do? I'd figure there are some races with a greater Con bonus that could work just as well (lesser ice or lesser ooze genasi, though the latter gets a hefty Cha penalty, same as Mongrelfolk) or with an equal Con bonus without a Cha penalty (or a Cha bonus even).

Racial Substitution levels for a dwarven sorcerer-

1st level- As long as you are standing on the ground, you gain DR 1/Adamantine and the Alertness feat. Costs 100 gp and takes 24 hours to perform a ritual. Replaces your familiar.

5th level- Power of Stone (Su): As long as both the dwarf and every target of his spell are touching the ground, the save DCs for all spells the dwarf casts are increased by 1 (effectively negates the Charisma penalty) and the range of any spell he casts that targets a creature or object touching the ground has its range increased by 50%. Replaces the 2nd level spell known you gain at 5th level.

9th level- Earth Meditation (Ex): After 8 hours of rest and 15 minutes of meditation, a dwarf can add his Constitution modifier to his Charisma score to determine his bonus spells per day for that day. Replaces a 4th level spell known.


@ OP- Metabreath feats: Maximize Breath. Oh, dear sweet cheese, Maximize Breath. Since you breathe a line, it won't be as useful for you, but the ability to just incinerate everyone, it really gives you that "Super Kamehameha" feeling (rather than just firing off your weaker, but still respectable, Galick Gun) [I apologize if you do not understand the reference here]

As for PrCs, you could do no better for a blaster with uncontrollable power than the Stormcaster from Stormwrack. (Assuming you're not playing a Lawful dwarf, which is of course a distinct possibility)

It doesn't really match the flavor of a draconic sorcerer, but I can imagine an actual dragon would LOVE to take it, and harness the power of nature to destroy its enemies with lightning and wind!

[Morph Bark]

Alright, I see.

Do remember that you still need a Cha of 10 + spell level to cast spells of that level though, I can see that becoming a problem.

[MesiDoomstalker]

/snip
9th level- Earth Meditation (Ex): After 8 hours of rest and 15 minutes of meditation, a dwarf can add his Constitution modifier to his Charisma score to determine his bonus spells per day for that day. Replaces a 4th level spell known.

Huh, I must of read that wrong. Still, its pretty good.



@ OP- Metabreath feats: Maximize Breath. Oh, dear sweet cheese, Maximize Breath. Since you breathe a line, it won't be as useful for you, but the ability to just incinerate everyone, it really gives you that "Super Kamehameha" feeling (rather than just firing off your weaker, but still respectable, Galick Gun) [I apologize if you do not understand the reference here]

As for PrCs, you could do no better for a blaster with uncontrollable power than the Stormcaster from Stormwrack. (Assuming you're not playing a Lawful dwarf, which is of course a distinct possibility)

It doesn't really match the flavor of a draconic sorcerer, but I can imagine an actual dragon would LOVE to take it, and harness the power of nature to destroy its enemies with lightning and wind!

Maximize Empowered Lingering Widened Breath Weapon Admixtured Shaped (Cone) Breathe of Acid/Lighting......ok now I see why maximize is of use. Tons of damage and debuffs all in a single, super big attack area. Oh Bahamaut, thats awesome.

I was going to try a battlefield control-ish type of character but it seems it lends itself to more blasty style as well.

Quick question NeoSeraphi: is your suggestion for Stormcaster have anything to do with your own desire to play one but was denied because your DM lacked Stormwrack?:smallwink: I won't hold it against you, just curious. Also, I don't get the reference but no offence taken! :smallbiggrin:


Alright, I see.

Do remember that you still need a Cha of 10 + spell level to cast spells of that level though, I can see that becoming a problem.

I actually mentioned this. 19 is easy to get to, if I get a good starting Cha, it can last me till I can buy a Cloak of Cha to finish it off.

[Tokuhara]

Ok y'all: Weird question:

Do Metabreath feats do anything for a DFA?

[NeoSeraphi]

Huh, I must of read that wrong. Still, its pretty good.


Many people do. That's why I emphasized it for you.



Maximize Empowered Lingering Widened Breath Weapon Admixtured Shaped (Cone) Breathe of Acid/Lighting......ok now I see why maximize is of use. Tons of damage and debuffs all in a single, super big attack area. Oh Bahamaut, thats awesome.


He IS the Platinum Dragon, after all. And the ability to stack all those metabreath feats with no character level penalty (as in you don't need a higher level spell slot/manifester level to do it) is amazing. Sure you probably won't be able to breathe until next combat, but if you're using it as a finishing move, who cares? That's why I like to have plenty of metabreath feats, so when there's one guy left, I can always steal the show with a crazy breath attack.



I was going to try a battlefield control-ish type of character but it seems it lends itself to more blasty style as well.


The Dragonfire Adept (Dragon Magic) is great for battlefield-control breathers, as well as a sorcerer using breath spells. But that's the thing, your spells take care of that for you, so use use your feats to go ****ing crazy and burn everything



Quick question NeoSeraphi: is your suggestion for Stormcaster have anything to do with your own desire to play one but was denied because your DM lacked Stormwrack?:smallwink: I won't hold it against you, just curious. Also, I don't get the reference but no offence taken! :smallbiggrin:


Hey, the Stormcaster is a good class! And if you want battlefield control, how does casting a single 1st level spell on a creature and making it save or be stunned every round for one round per caster level sound? (5th level Stormcaster+thunderhead (Spell Compendium)

I think the ability to blow things up is very fitting of a dragon sorcerer. If you want battlefield control though....well, you've got that as a sorcerer, so it doesn't really matter what class features you take, as long as it gives you full or near full casting, right?



Ok y'all: Weird question:

Do Metabreath feats do anything for a DFA?

No. Dragonfire Adepts cannot take Metabreath feats, because Metabreath feats have a requirement of a breath weapon whose recharge duration is expressed in rounds. (They did it so half-dragons couldn't take a whole bunch and stack them on their single breath weapon without care)

A dragonfire adept's breath weapon is usable at-will, so it doesn't qualify.

[Tokuhara]

No. Dragonfire Adepts cannot take Metabreath feats, because Metabreath feats have a requirement of a breath weapon whose recharge duration is expressed in rounds. (They did it so half-dragons couldn't take a whole bunch and stack them on their single breath weapon without care)

A dragonfire adept's breath weapon is usable at-will, so it doesn't qualify.

That's kind of lame. There are a couple of Metabreath feats that would be invaluable to a DFA, things like Quicken or Maximize. Also, is there feats to increase the die size of a DFA's Breath Weapon?

[NeoSeraphi]

That's kind of lame. There are a couple of Metabreath feats that would be invaluable to a DFA, things like Quicken or Maximize. Also, is there feats to increase the die size of a DFA's Breath Weapon?

If you want to customize your breath weapon, you could try the Meta feats from Tome of Magic, like Widen Supernatural Ability. (I don't know how many there are or what they do, but I know they're there)

[Tokuhara]

If you want to customize your breath weapon, you could try the Meta feats from Tome of Magic, like Widen Supernatural Ability. (I don't know how many there are or what they do, but I know they're there)

You, my good sir, are brilliant

[NeoSeraphi]

You, my good sir, are brilliant

You're welcome. :smallsmile:

[Tokuhara]

You're welcome. :smallsmile:

So take Meta-Supernatural Ability feats, and use them to pump my BW into the realm of Cheese. Be a Dragonborn Mongrelfolk and have fun burning it all into oblivion

[NeoSeraphi]

So take Meta-Supernatural Ability feats, and use them to pump my BW into the realm of Cheese. Be a Dragonborn Mongrelfolk and have fun burning it all into oblivion

Actually, if you're a dragonborn, you qualify for Metabreath feats, since you have a breath weapon you can use every 1d4 rounds. Then you can apply it to either breath weapon and just have a cooldown. That's a common way for DFAs to overcome that pesky limitation actually.

[Tokuhara]

Actually, if you're a dragonborn, you qualify for Metabreath feats, since you have a breath weapon you can use every 1d4 rounds. Then you can apply it to either breath weapon and just have a cooldown. That's a common way for DFAs to overcome that pesky limitation actually.

What??? That's awesome

[Randomguy]

A one level dip in sacred exorcist can give you access to turn undead, which you can use for DMM persist to make your breath weapon deal negative levels for the entire day by persisting enervating breath.

[NeoSeraphi]

What??? That's awesome

Yep, I would have mentioned it before, but the alignment restriction/need to take the template often irks DFA players so I decided to give you other options instead of a suggestion for how you could get around the limitation.

Still, if you're going to be a dragonborn anyway, you should definitely load up on metabreath feats

[Deophaun]

No. Dragonfire Adepts cannot take Metabreath feats, because Metabreath feats have a requirement of a breath weapon whose recharge duration is expressed in rounds. (They did it so half-dragons couldn't take a whole bunch and stack them on their single breath weapon without care)

A dragonfire adept's breath weapon is usable at-will, so it doesn't qualify.
What if you grab the Fivefold Breath of Tiamat at level 15? As using that prevents you from using your breath weapon the following round, it seems that would let you qualify.

[NeoSeraphi]

A one level dip in sacred exorcist can give you access to turn undead, which you can use for DMM persist to make your breath weapon deal negative levels for the entire day by persisting enervating breath.

Incorrect. The Divine Metamagic feat was errata'd to only affect divine spells. Enervating breath is sorc/wiz only.

[NeoSeraphi]

What if you grab the Fivefold Breath of Tiamat at level 15? As using that prevents you from using your breath weapon the following round, it seems that would let you qualify.

I doubt it. I suppose you could ask your DM. I wouldn't allow that.

[Tokuhara]

Yep, I would have mentioned it before, but the alignment restriction/need to take the template often irks DFA players so I decided to give you other options instead of a suggestion for how you could get around the limitation.

Still, if you're going to be a dragonborn anyway, you should definitely load up on metabreath feats

I plan on being LN (within Bahamut's alignment restrictions), and take a homebrew Dragon Heritage (Force Dragon) and Dragon Lineage (Force dragon)

[NeoSeraphi]

I plan on being LN (within Bahamut's alignment restrictions), and take a homebrew Dragon Heritage (Force Dragon) and Dragon Lineage (Force dragon)

Actually being a dragonborn neither requires you to be LG (it just requires you be non-evil), nor be draconic in any way (It does make you a dragon though)

[MesiDoomstalker]

Wow, lots of responses. I wish I could DMM my breath spells but it won't work unless my DM ignores errata (which is highly likely). But getting Sacred Exorcist requires K: Planes and Relgion, something Sorcerer's don't have anyways.

So I'm getting the vibe that this character would be a regular Sorcerer, occasionally letting out a non-modified breath weapon for the first part of an encounter but then just lay waste to the field with a heavily modified breath weapon. Or am I reading too much into it?

[Perryy]

On equipment:
Items of Con and Cha are a given. Are there any items that affect breath weapons? Like breath-spells, I've only glanced over an item meant for a dragon.


The Dragon Spirit Cincture increases your BW by 1die and if you hold a magic weapon with the same type (i.e. fire) your BW's DC increases by one, nifty little thing for 2k gp. (MIC P. 95)

[Zagaroth]

hum, the limitation on at-will defaults to being once a round. so you could consider that to be a 1-round limit.

and there is a feat that lets daily use breath weapons be ever 1d4 round breath weapons.

really, personally, I'd let DFA's use meta-breath feats, and have it leave the BW unusable for the increased duration listed on the feat

[Necroticplague]

Actually, if you're a dragonborn, you qualify for Metabreath feats, since you have a breath weapon you can use every 1d4 rounds. Then you can apply it to either breath weapon and just have a cooldown. That's a common way for DFAs to overcome that pesky limitation actually.

You can also use the Power Surge feat. It provides some very tiny bonuses, but gives your ability(applied to any SU ability) a 1 round cooldown. Now that your breath weapon has a cooldown, metabreath away.

[MesiDoomstalker]

You can also use the Power Surge feat. It provides some very tiny bonuses, but gives your ability(applied to any SU ability) a 1 round cooldown. Now that your breath weapon has a cooldown, metabreath away.

So a dip in DFA with this feat and I'll have 2 weapons to play with? One that does damage (Dragonborn) and one that lets me through out debuffs (DFA)?