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Tvtyrant
2011-10-29, 02:47 AM
Would the combination of Sword of the Arcane Order, Battle Blessing, and Mystic Fire Knight's first substitution level allow the Paladin to be a useful caster? Suppose that ToB was brought in to gain an extra swift action, this would allow two or three 1-4 level Wizard spells to be cast in a turn. In addition the Paladin can use its Turn Undead attempts to use DMM on the wizard spells.

How useful would this combination be? Would it be enough to bring the Paladin up to tier 3?

Curious
2011-10-29, 02:53 AM
Using the PF Paladin with 3.5 spells and splats? Probably. Using the 3.5 Paladin? Eh.

Zaq
2011-10-29, 02:55 AM
Unless I'm drastically misremembering Mystic Fire Knight (can't be arsed to open the book at the moment), you'd still have significantly fewer spells per day than the Bard, so you'd still only get one or two such novas per day, and still at a relatively low spell/caster level. It's a decent enough trick, but kind of feat-heavy for what it really gives you. It certainly doesn't make you worse, but in no way would I consider your castiness to even be equal to your beatstickiness (not that Paladins are great beatsticks, but you know what I mean).

Tvtyrant
2011-10-29, 02:56 AM
Using the PF Paladin with 3.5 spells and splats? Probably. Using the 3.5 Paladin? Eh.

Hmm, I see your point. But this way you can be a gish without needing an arcane class :P

Tvtyrant
2011-10-29, 03:32 AM
Unless I'm drastically misremembering Mystic Fire Knight (can't be arsed to open the book at the moment), you'd still have significantly fewer spells per day than the Bard, so you'd still only get one or two such novas per day, and still at a relatively low spell/caster level. It's a decent enough trick, but kind of feat-heavy for what it really gives you. It certainly doesn't make you worse, but in no way would I consider your castiness to even be equal to your beatstickiness (not that Paladins are great beatsticks, but you know what I mean).
:C well there goes my hard work. Oh well, such is life.

NeoSeraphi
2011-10-29, 03:33 AM
Hmm, I see your point. But this way you can be a gish without needing an arcane class :P

Have you considered playing a Prestige Paladin? (Unearthed Arcana)

Start as a cleric, choose a few good domains, and then get full access the paladin spell list, as well as the mount, full BAB, Smite Evil, Divine Grace, Lay on Hands, Aura of Courage, Divine Health and remove disease, as well as half spellcasting, which is a considerably better deal than the standard paladin.

HunterOfJello
2011-10-29, 03:41 AM
The paladin is generally held as high Tier 5. So, to get up to Tier 3 the class would be to get better at their own role of tanking/melee damage first just to get to Tier 4. If they got good at that, then stacking more spells on and maybe a wider selection like the Mystic Ranger has could give them a nice bump. Would it get them to Tier 3? That would depend on the spells per day.

Psyren
2011-10-29, 08:18 AM
Hmm, I see your point. But this way you can be a gish without needing an arcane class :P

Tons of non-arcane gishes out there. Druid, Cleric, FS, Binder, Psywar, Slayer, RKV, SappH, TashArdent etc. etc. etc.