(PF) Oh, Ranger, My Love...

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

well, I've come back to my first D&D love, the Ranger. I still remember my first D&D character, way back from first ed. I only got to play with that character a couple times, but I recall it fondly. Anyway...

All 3.X rangers kinda get shoe-horned though. I don't want an archer, I don't want a TWF, but I do want a classic, DEX based Ranger. I want help to create a single weapon, DEX based Ranger. I dont know how to do that, honestly. Its quite a challenge I think.

My current idea is a Combat expertise-based build, with perhaps the Piranha Strike and Finesse.

I am not look for a Super-Optimized character, I know how to build one. However, as a veteran player, I take it upon myself to be at least moderately competitive. I always carry my weight in a party, and now isn't a time to stop.

If you all can help me out, I'd be much obliged. If not, oh well, I am asking quite a lot. :smallbiggrin:

Thanks!

[Rising Phoenix]

well, I've come back to my first D&D love, the Ranger. I still remember my first D&D character, way back from first ed. I only got to play with that character a couple times, but I recall it fondly. Anyway...

All 3.X rangers kinda get shoe-horned though. I don't want an archer, I don't want a TWF, but I do want a classic, DEX based Ranger. I want help to create a single weapon, DEX based Ranger. I dont know how to do that, honestly. Its quite a challenge I think.

My current idea is a Combat expertise-based build, with perhaps the Piranha Strike and Finesse.

I am not look for a Super-Optimized character, I know how to build one. However, as a veteran player, I take it upon myself to be at least moderately competitive. I always carry my weight in a party, and now isn't a time to stop.

If you all can help me out, I'd be much obliged. If not, oh well, I am asking quite a lot. :smallbiggrin:

Thanks!

does this (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dervish-dance-combat) help? :smallsmile:

[gkathellar]

EDIT: Guh, didn't see the PF tag. Not sure how relevant this advice is to that, but I'll leave it up. In any case, isn't there a PF feat that lets you use one weapon as if it were two for TWF purposes? That sounds like a solid answer to your combat style problem.

Swift Hunter is of course always a good choice for a build of this type, as is Mystic Ranger if you can get past the loss of some melee martial weapon proficiency.

Champion of Corellon Larethian 2 is an obvious choice if you're elf enough to qualify. It'll give you Dex to damage with most "classic" one-handed weapons. Likewise, Shadow Blade will give it to you for smaller weapons (and a couple of others).

I'd be tempted to go for an Elven Courtblade build if I were you, though. That's a single finessable weapon that can actually deal halfway respectable damage using the Power Attack line. Use an ACF that drops your Combat Style — maybe Moon-Warded from Dragon, or Sor use ACF chaining to trade it out for Wildshape and then trade that out for something else.

Shooting Star and SotAO are obvious choices, but remain highly optional.

Grab two fighter levels for Dungeoncrasher, and one for Pouncebarian — either with Whirling Frenzy or one of those variants that give you +Dex when you rage.

Hmm ... Dex-based Mystic Ranger 14/Scout 3/Dungeoncrasher Fighter 2/Whirling Pouncebarian 1, with Swift Hunter, two-handed charger feats and an Elven Courtblade to pull that off with Dex? (SotAO optional). That nets you full ranger spellcasting, and leaves you more than half ranger while still getting you some nice stuff on the side.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

RISING PHOENIX: actually, though dervish dance is a good idea, there is a +1 weapon property called "agile" which allows you to use DEX for damage with a finesse weapon. Thus, Dervish Dance can be bought as a +2 weapon of choice, not just on scimitars. Its not on the PFSRD yet though.

Also, I WISH there wasa pathfinder feat that let you use one weapon as if you were TWF. I would love that, because I feel TWF is quite overplayed for DEX based characters. Alas, I don't believe it exists.

[pipo]

You can check the additional combat styles in advanced players guide.

If I remember correctly there is a weapon and shield and a two handed weapon fighting style.

[gkathellar]

Also, I WISH there wasa pathfinder feat that let you use one weapon as if you were TWF. I would love that, because I feel TWF is quite overplayed for DEX based characters. Alas, I don't believe it exists.

I could have sworn I saw it in the beta, but I don't see it on PFSRD. It must have been cut, probably for being "overpowered." Someone needs to revoke Paizo's permission to use that word.

[Doc Roc]

So... basically...We have problem here. The core issue is that unless you can substitute them away, or find more combat styles, your ranger is going to arch or twf. Or you end up ignoring significant class features, which seems a weird way to go about using your class.

I guess you could always Chaos Shuffle them away? Except this is PF-only, right?

Um.
Golly, I guess the alternative combat style stuff is your only good option?

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

yeah, I guess sword and shield is as close as I can get. well thanks everyone!

[Human Paragon 3]

I have a ranger that uses cross bows and the vital strike feat line. It's not super-powerful, but it's very fun.

[Zaq]

Well, OK, what do you want to actually DO? What, in your mind, is the defining feature of a Ranger? What will make you feel "Rangery"? We can try to optimize the parts you like, I suppose, but if you don't like what the class gets, what DO you like about it? Just the naturey woodsmany feel? The weak pet? The marginal spellcasting? What, in your mind, makes a Ranger feel like a Ranger?

[Bovine Colonel]

Have you seen Treantmonk's Guide to Rangers (https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AcNyxDTKvAmqZGRtZzhzdjZfNWM0cTliaGdw&hl=en)?

[grarrrg]

Have you seen Treantmonk's Guide to Rangers (https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AcNyxDTKvAmqZGRtZzhzdjZfNWM0cTliaGdw&hl=en)?

While it is a decent guide, it is WOEFULLY out of date.
I believe it was written before/sametime that the APG came out.
Since then a ton of Archetypes have come out, not to mention other combat styles/feats/spells.
It is a decent start though.

[Metahuman1]

My suggestion, ask for a house rule and a touch of backward compatibility import.

House Rule: Ranger style feats are bonus feats, not "Your treated as having the feat when you want to use it."

Backward compatibility: 3.5 players handbook 2, retraining rules.

Turn TWF or Archery bonus feats into what ever feats you want.

If you Dip Barbarian, get pounce and Frenzy. If the DM will house rule in 3.5 spiked chain, adding that Plus Cleric 1 with the Time and Travel Domains, the latter to trade out for Travel Devotion, you've now got a Dex boost, reach, extra movement, full attacking after either a normal move or a charge.

Add in Weapons Finesse, Shadow Blade, Combat Expertise, Combat reflexes, and Improved Trip. now you've got some control of the area around you, and the ability to take shots at the enemy when it's not your turn. Plus Melee Debuff.

Take Ranks in Craft Poison and Tumble, and Cross class ranks in UMD, and your set.

Remove from list as needed to reduce optimization to desired level.