Rogue items for Tomb of Horrors Run [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

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Swiftx71

2011-10-30, 03:26 PM

Hey everyone.

My friends and I are going to be running Tomb of Horrors for Halloween--and I'm going to be paranoid as hell playing it--and I was wondering if you guys could help me out trying to find what sort of items/enhancements or other general tips I should equip myself with.

We're all starting at level 10 with 49,000 starting gold. We can buy whatever we want with that money, but we can only spend a total of 12,250 on any one magic item.

My idea was to play a Rogue/Swashbuckler (Daring Outlaw)/Nightsong Infiltrator Catfolk and serve as our party's trapfinder.

My Ability Scores at level 10 are:
STR 16 [+3]
DEX 24 [+7]
CON 15 [+2]
INT 18 [+4]
WIS 14 [+2]
CHA 14 [+2]

With those in mind I was definitely going to pick up the Tactile Trapsmith Skill Trick (Use DEX instead of INT to Search for/Disable traps, and you're unaffected by darkness/blindness when doing so) and I decided to go with Daring Outlaw for the free Weapon Finesse at the expense of just a couple skillpoints.

So now I just need to figure out what sort of items I should spend my starting gold on; but if you have any input on anything else, please let me know. Preferably I'd like to have equipment that would help me do my trapfinding/disabling job better, allow me to attack/defend against Undead and/or Demons/Devils/Whatever, and generally things that would help calm my anxiety over the "No save, you die" bull**** that I've heard so much about ._.;

MesiDoomstalker

2011-10-30, 03:29 PM

Wand of Summon Monster I or II. II would be more expensive, yes, but you get more creatures per charge. But a fully charged I should be enough.

NOTE: I've never played or looked at Tomb of Horrors, just heard horror (heh) stories from it, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

Human Paragon 3

2011-10-30, 03:44 PM

gbprime

2011-10-30, 03:52 PM

Goggles of minute seeing - 1250gp - gives +5 circumstance to Search

Lens of Detection - 3500 - gives +5 untyped to Search

That nets +10 to search. If you can't FIND the traps, you can't disable them...

sirpercival

2011-10-30, 03:55 PM

Go Factotum instead of Rogue, especially in a situation where Sneak Attack won't be as useful.

Dusk Eclipse

2011-10-30, 04:00 PM

Take the ACF Penetrating Strike in Dungeonscape to deal half SA damage to normally immune creatures and be sure to also take Darkstalker as it has the side benefit of making normally unflank-able creactures (such as oozes) subject to flanks.

Wands of Grave-strike and Golem strike are also options if the above is not available.

Also the survival pouch is quite useful as you get up to five donkeys (or mules) which you can use as trap-detectors...might count as evil depending on your DM's view though.

Jair Barik

2011-10-30, 04:10 PM

Don't even bother with the survival pouch if you go that approach, that approach is normally to buy lots and lots of cattle and herd them through the dungeon to trigger the traps for you.

marcielle

2011-10-30, 04:10 PM

If your a scout, and consequently have a high Wis, take a bottle of shapesand. Need an 1 foot pole? Shape it. Need a small bridge? Shape it. Need a ladder? Why the heck do you need a ladder when shapesand can become stairs?

If not, Chaos flasks and Marvelous Pigment will suffice but these are of limited use and are way more expensive.

Masterwork items for all skills you intend to use often. Every bit helps.

Also, a quick glance through Shax sack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148101) might help.

Seffbasilisk

2011-10-30, 04:46 PM

Swiftx71

2011-10-30, 05:34 PM

Almost nothing in the tomb is subject to sneak attacks or critical hits. Rather than trying to find a way around this, I would embrace it and prepare for the undead. Get scrolls or wands of Detect Undead, Halt Undead, Command Undead, Sunburst, Glory Bolt and so on. Skip Daring Outlaw and the swashbuckler levels and concentrate on being the best searcher you can.

Another idea would be to go Scout / Ranger and stack them with Swift Hunter so you can skirmish undead, constructs, oozes and what have you.

I rolled a Swift Hunter in one of our previous, uncompleted Campaigns. Unless there's some serious little loophole we all completely overlooked, Skirmish is precision-based damage (meaning undead, constructs, and oozes are still immune to it.)

Re: Rogue items for Tomb of Horrors Run
Mask of Sweet Air (Sandstorm)
Rod of Surprises (MiC)
Tower Shield
Ball of Twine
Flasks of Acid + Chalk (marking passage)
backup Tower Shield
Marbles
Wand of Lesser Vigor
Anklets of Translocation

...I suppose you can skip the Tower Shield if you have a Ring of Force Shield, because then you can press up a mobile Wall of Force against whatever you'd shield against.

I should have mentioned that I'm a bit of a noob to DnD still. Could you (or anyone) please elaborate on these items a bit more, please? As in, why I would want them and when I'd use them?

--

Also, someone else mentioned ditching Daring Outlaw. I wasn't going to use it at first, but I found out I only lose out on like, 12 skill points total by using it. I need to go back and double-check my math, but I'm pretty sure I'll still be able to maintain a rank 13 (the max at level 10) in Spot, Listen, Search, and Disable Device. Daring Outlaw frees up a feat for me (since I'd really want to have Weapon Finesse with that +7 DEX mod) and gives Insightful Strike (my +4 INT mod to damage) to help when I can't do my Sneak Attacks. It's technically supposed to be precision damage too, but a lot of DMs apparently overlook that/don't care. Our DM usually lets us get away with little things like that so long as we come up with a character/story-related explanation for it, and I do a lot of Creative Writing so that shouldn't be too hard xD

Speaking of damage and weapons though, isn't there a Gravestrike enhancement or something that lets you sneak-attack undead? I thought I saw it before but I can't find it again.
Also, I was thinking of dual-wielding Shortswords as my primary weapons of choice since I was going to pick up the Ambidextrous trait (If I remember right since I don't have my notes on-hand atm: It reduces my attack penalty when combined with TWF to only -1 at the expense of having -2 initative.) Sound like a good idea? Are there any good magic shortswords under 12,250 gold?

If not, suggestions on what weapons I should use then?

The Boz

2011-10-30, 05:39 PM

Immoveable Rods.
Plenty of Immoveable Rods.

Arcane_Snowman

2011-10-30, 05:42 PM

I rolled a Swift Hunter in one of our previous, uncompleted Campaigns. Unless there's some serious little loophole we all completely overlooked, Skirmish is precision-based damage (meaning undead, constructs, and oozes are still immune to it.) The Swift Hunter feat states that you can apply Skirmish to any creature you have selected as a favored enemy, regardless of immunity.

Human Paragon 3

2011-10-30, 05:44 PM

Skirmish is precision damage, but swifthunter specifically allows you to use skirmish on your favored enemies, even if they are normally immune.

As for skill points, you probably will have enough, and if you need weapon finesse, I guess there are worse ways to get it. Just don't count on sneak attacking everything that gets in your way.

If you can UMD for a grave strike wand and other anti-undead tech, you should be good to go. As good as anyone can be in the Tomb, that is.

Don't forget the healing potions.

Elfstone

2011-10-30, 05:50 PM

Actually.. They aren't that useful. Unless your an engineer or something(Got one of those in the party.. Its interesting) as they can only support something like 1250 pounds? Which sometimes just isn't enough (Adamentine door closing with magical force, yeah it doesnt stop it)

I second the Shax Sack. I also support becoming a ranger instead.

There is a weapon's crystal from MiC that allows for sneak attack+crits on undead but it requires a +3 weapon, which you don't/can't have.

Also, +1 to what HP3 said, the swifthunter class is great for your build. All you really need is skils in search, spot, listen, UMD, a few knowledge skills and disable trap. As a skill monkey, you should be fine. The skill boosting items like boots and cloak of the elvenkind are good for all sneaky types. Potions are good, as are alchemical flasks. Lots of them. Hand a sackful to a unseen servant and have it drop them on the monster for lots of damage. Also, a eternal wand of unseen servant is nice for all sorts of stuff.

Also, getting a glove of the master strategists is awesome. Its like a glove of sotring but with a 1/day truestrike feature.

Swiftx71

2011-10-30, 06:37 PM

Oh right! I completely forgot about Favored Enemy. Okay, that makes a lot of sense now. I think I'll definitely switch to a Swift Hunter then.

What should I pick as my favored enemies? Something like the ACF for Arcanists and then Undead for the 2nd one?

Also, aren't there "Divine" ACFs for rangers in this case? Would those help at all in this sort of adventure? I can't remember off-hand what they do, I'll have to go look some stuff up again.

One last thing: Since I have +7 DEX mod, should I go with a Bow instead of melee weapons then so I don't have to bother with TWF and Weapon Finesse? It looked like there were a lot of neat Ranger spells for projectiles anyway.

Elfstone

2011-10-30, 06:50 PM

Why would you pick arcanists(Besides the minor boosts against them)? Constructs, Undead, and oozes if you can swing it. Arcanists you can already hit, as they are not immune to crits/precision damage. The others are.

A bow can be very nice.. Ranged attacks are great. I would keep a backup greatsword just in case. Never know when you might need to do lots of melee damage. Either that or a sword and board set up. Get nice arrows, like bane and slaying arrows. A few elemental ones, as well as raptor arrows if you can swing the worshiping of Ehlonna (returning arrows, yeah!). Burning a feat for true believer is actually worth it, as a 1/day reroll can save your life. I know it saved my Cleric's before.

Swiftx71

2011-10-30, 07:15 PM

Why would you pick arcanists(Besides the minor boosts against them)? Constructs, Undead, and oozes if you can swing it. Arcanists you can already hit, as they are not immune to crits/precision damage. The others are.

From what I had been told before when I was working on my first Swift Hunter, taking the Arcanist Favored Enemy essentially makes it so I can Skirmish anything that uses Arcane magic. So if some type of Undead, Constructs, or Oozes use it, then they are Skirmishable.

I guess I'd have to ask if that was generally the case with the Undead in the ToH. If it's rare, then yeah, probably best just to go with Constructs and Undead as favored enemies.

hex0

2011-10-30, 07:24 PM

With all the traps, why not take Trapsmith. Possibly with Swiftblade if allowed.

Keep the Swashbuckler though.

I like the suggestion of wand of summon monster though. Useful for lots of things.

Dead_Jester

2011-10-30, 07:42 PM

The thing is, most undead, ooze or constructs aren't casters. Only the real badass undead have arcane spells, and you shouldn't be encountering to many mortal arcanists inside the tomb.

Also, if your Dm allows custom magic item, an item of use activated cure minor wound/lesser vigor is dirt cheap and gives you unlimited OOC healing. An unlimited use item of Summon Monster 1 (only 2000 gp), although it probably won't be accepted, let's you test out every single thing in the tomb, which may result in a slight increase of life expectancy. Mage Hand (in the form of Hand of the Mage) could also come in handy, but it's strength is very limited.

Oh, and grab a few 11ft poles, and use them on everything that you can't make summoned monsters interact with. If you have a caster in the party, insist they either take Stone Shape or get a few scrolls of it, as many traps can be rendered useless by a clever use of the spell.

And always bring a backup weapon of every damage type, preferably made of adamantium. Chipping at a wall or a door may not be fast, but it could save your life or let you bypass an otherwise unavoidable trap.

Seffbasilisk

2011-10-30, 07:45 PM

Mask of Sweet Air (Sandstorm)
Rod of Surprises (MiC)
Tower Shield
Ball of Twine
Flasks of Acid + Chalk (marking passage)
backup Tower Shield
Marbles
Wand of Lesser Vigor
Anklets of Translocation

...I suppose you can skip the Tower Shield if you have a Ring of Force Shield, because then you can press up a mobile Wall of Force against whatever you'd shield against.

Mask of Sweet Air will let you breathe even if there are spores, inhaled poisons, thin air, pockets of noxious gasses, or even something like a sandstorm.

Rod of Surprises is a very versatile magic weapon. It can change between a number of weapons, or stretch out like a pole. That said pole? Can take 800lbs before it would even start to bend. Because it shifts, you can fix it in a pocket (unlike most 10ft poles) and it won't get in your way.

Tower Shield: I say, you SHALL NOT TOUCH ME!
Backup Tower Shield: You may have melted my last tower shield, but ah ha! I have another!
Ring of Force Shield: Melt this.

Chalk: Make arrows on the floor or walls to show where you're going, which way you've been. Good for scouting, or if you're in a maze of sorts. Flasks of acid? For walls that chalk won't leave a mark on, tricky locks, creatures...

Marbles: For when you're having trouble telling if the ground is sloped, making an area tricky for bipedal creatures to move through, stop charging, seeing if a jar is empty or full of water, feeding golems, playing games, juggling, bluffing the noble into thinking they're gumballs...

Wand of Lesser Vigor: Like a wand of Cure Light wounds, only instead of 1d8+1, it gives you 11 rounds of fast healing 1. So if you've got some time for out-of-combat healing, CLW would give you 2-9hp, but Lesser Vigor gievs you 11hp per charge.

Anklets of Translocation: 10ft teleport 2/day, swift action. Do I need to explain how THIS is useful?

Human Paragon 3

2011-10-30, 07:53 PM

Yeah, most of the enemies in the ToH are not arcane casters. A few are, but they are by and large undead, so FE: Undead is all you need. There are constructs and oozes occasionally, too, none of which cast.

Swiftx71

2011-10-30, 07:53 PM

Mask of Sweet Air will let you breathe even if there are spores, inhaled poisons, thin air, pockets of noxious gasses, or even something like a sandstorm.

Rod of Surprises is a very versatile magic weapon. It can change between a number of weapons, or stretch out like a pole. That said pole? Can take 800lbs before it would even start to bend. Because it shifts, you can fix it in a pocket (unlike most 10ft poles) and it won't get in your way.

Tower Shield: I say, you SHALL NOT TOUCH ME!
Backup Tower Shield: You may have melted my last tower shield, but ah ha! I have another!
Ring of Force Shield: Melt this.

Chalk: Make arrows on the floor or walls to show where you're going, which way you've been. Good for scouting, or if you're in a maze of sorts. Flasks of acid? For walls that chalk won't leave a mark on, tricky locks, creatures...

Marbles: For when you're having trouble telling if the ground is sloped, making an area tricky for bipedal creatures to move through, stop charging, seeing if a jar is empty or full of water, feeding golems, playing games, juggling, bluffing the noble into thinking they're gumballs...

Wand of Lesser Vigor: Like a wand of Cure Light wounds, only instead of 1d8+1, it gives you 11 rounds of fast healing 1. So if you've got some time for out-of-combat healing, CLW would give you 2-9hp, but Lesser Vigor gievs you 11hp per charge.

Anklets of Translocation: 10ft teleport 2/day, swift action. Do I need to explain how THIS is useful?

Awesome. Thank you.

Happen to know of any useful armor/weapon types or specific examples of those? I'd assume there'd be some really good mantles, bracers, cloaks, and boots that'd go well with a skillmonkey Swift Hunter, I just haven't found them yet.

Human Paragon 3

2011-10-30, 07:56 PM

Ghost touch is a useful property if you can afford it.

Elfstone

2011-10-30, 08:04 PM

Just get a pair of gauntlets of ghost fighting. Ghost touch AND +1d6 vs incorporeal undead.

Its what I did.

Human Paragon 3

2011-10-30, 08:07 PM

Eflstone: what about the enchantment on your breastplate? That has also been clutch in several situations.

Elfstone

2011-10-30, 08:12 PM

Yes, but it cost waaaayyy over 12.25k. Thats the limit we have right now. a +5 total enhancement to a mithral breastplate pretty much bankrupt my cleric. However the soulfire enhancement has been priceless. I would personally have listed it as only +3, but w/e. I think he should go with an enteral wand of protection from negative energy and call it good.

Swiftx71

2011-10-30, 08:59 PM

Aw D: well there's always loot to be found IN the ToH, right? Assuming that not EVERYTHING is trying to kill you.

Speaking of a chestpiece though, do you think I should go for something like a Mithral Masterwork Breastplate or do you happen to know of any other interesting armor types? Something like the Foxhide Armor from the MIC looked neat, but I'm not sure if effects would warrant having leather armor still while within this kind of dungeon.

Is there any item that'd give Hide in Plain Sight? Because I could see that being so useful when coupled with Darkstalker.

Elfstone

2011-10-30, 09:03 PM

Yes, actually. An Umbral collar grants the shadow template, which in turn grats the HiPS ability. And its 12k. I think. Might wanna check, but im AFB right now so I can't. Its in the ToM?

Mithral breastplate. Its just easier that way. Check out the MiC for unique armors, and fun item sets.

Also, be sure and get a bealt of healing for 600gp. And a crapload of potions.

Swiftx71

2011-10-30, 09:06 PM

Mithral breastplate. Its just easier that way. Check out the MiC for unique armors, and fun item sets.

Ignore that, I completely forgot about how armor limits your DEX modifiers. I think I'd get more AC out of Leather/Padded armor, so I might as well go with Foxhide or Hawkfeather armor unless I can find something more fun.

Definitely going to look into that collar though.

Elfstone

2011-10-30, 09:18 PM

There are materials and templates as well as enhancements that increase the dex mod possible, but for someone with +7 dex I would suggest padded armor. And a Dex boosting item.

Provengreil

2011-10-30, 09:47 PM

Aw D: well there's always loot to be found IN the ToH, right? Assuming that not EVERYTHING is trying to kill you.

BAD ASSUMPTION. This is the tomb of horrors. the watchword is paranoia; those rocks are going to try and kill you. the walls will crumble, the floor will eat you. doors of solid insanity will attempt to control you. arrows, javelins, poison, fire, illusions, demons, devils, the tarrasque, and jellyfish all await you. then you get to room 4. i may be exaggerating, and leaving some things out at the same time.

Swiftx71

2011-10-30, 10:21 PM

BAD ASSUMPTION. This is the tomb of horrors. the watchword is paranoia; those rocks are going to try and kill you. the walls will crumble, the floor will eat you. doors of solid insanity will attempt to control you. arrows, javelins, poison, fire, illusions, demons, devils, the tarrasque, and jellyfish all await you. then you get to room 4. i may be exaggerating, and leaving some things out at the same time.

I lol'd.

Anyway, I have a question concerning the Collar of Umbral Metamorphasis.

If I use it, I take on the Dark Creature Template, and it says it changes my "environment" to the Plane of Shadow. Does this mean I'm incorporeal, being that I'm on a different plane of existence? If I -am- on a different plane, does that mean that I suffer a miss-chance trying to hit enemies in the Material Plane/other planes? If so, would my Gauntlets of Ghost Fighting (I think were called) bracers nullify that miss chance?

And, would this in anyway "separate" me from my party? Like, would they still be able to use spells/items on me?

Swiftx71

2011-10-31, 12:12 AM

Burning a feat for true believer is actually worth it, as a 1/day reroll can save your life. I know it saved my Cleric's before.

Sorry for the double post, but after researching things, something doesn't seem to add up. The True Believer description I found says it just lets you add +2 to any saving throw once per day; nothing about rerolling things. Unless you meant that adding +2 to your roll saved your life.

Edit!-
Two more questions that've come up. Would it be possible to add something like the "Shadow Striking" +3 enhancement (Tome of Magic p.155) to the [Relic] Raptor Arrow? If so, that'd just be such a Badass arrow... omg.

Second, here's my Level/Feat outline. Let me know what you think of what I've picked out or if there are any mistakes:

Swift Hunter
((Character Level #. Class Level #. BAB from class [total BAB] Feats, etc.))
1. Scout 1. BAB 0 [0] Point Blank Shot
FLAW: Precise Shot
2. Scout 2. BAB +1 [1]
3. Scout 3. BAB +2 [2] True Believer
4. Ranger 1. BAB +1 [3] ACF: Arcane Hunter (replaces 1st Favored Enemy)
5. Scout 4. BAB +3 [4] BONUS FEAT: Swift Hunter, 2nd Favored Enemy (Undead)
6. Ranger 2. BAB +2 [5] Darkstalker; Ranger Combat Style=Rapid Shot
7. Ranger 3. BAB +3 [6]
8. Ranger 4. BAB +4 [7] ACF: Distracting Attack (Replaces animal companion to allow ranged attacks to 'distract' enemies so that allies can flank them.)
9. Ranger 5. BAB +5 [8] Woodland Archer [Tactical]
10. Ranger 6. BAB +6 [9] Ranger Improved Combat Style=Manyshot; 3rd Favored Enemy (Constructs)

It's unfortunate that I had to give up Travel Devotion and Improved Skirmish for True Believer and Darkstalker, but I think the latter two would be more useful in this situation where I have plenty of gold to spend on magic items and I'm being thrown into a dungeon where the first failed hide check will probably kill me :l

Elfstone

2011-10-31, 04:41 PM

I could have sworn it was a reroll... I'll check on it later.

Also, hide check's.. aren't that important. Most enemies will be a surprise, but with HiPS I guess thats different.

hex0

2011-10-31, 05:06 PM

Swift Hunter
((Character Level #. Class Level #. BAB from class [total BAB] Feats, etc.))
1. Scout 1. BAB 0 [0] Point Blank Shot
FLAW: Precise Shot
2. Scout 2. BAB +1 [1]
3. Scout 3. BAB +2 [2] True Believer
4. Ranger 1. BAB +1 [3] ACF: Arcane Hunter (replaces 1st Favored Enemy)
5. Scout 4. BAB +3 [4] BONUS FEAT: Swift Hunter, 2nd Favored Enemy (Undead)
6. Ranger 2. BAB +2 [5] Darkstalker; Ranger Combat Style=Rapid Shot
7. Ranger 3. BAB +3 [6]
8. Ranger 4. BAB +4 [7] ACF: Distracting Attack (Replaces animal companion to allow ranged attacks to 'distract' enemies so that allies can flank them.)
9. Ranger 5. BAB +5 [8] Woodland Archer [Tactical]
10. Ranger 6. BAB +6 [9] Ranger Improved Combat Style=Manyshot; 3rd Favored Enemy (Constructs)
l

Cheesier: Scout 5/Cloistered Cleric 2/Prestige Ranger 3

With that many traps, I'd want evasion. :smallamused:

Swiftx71

2011-10-31, 05:13 PM

I could have sworn it was a reroll... I'll check on it later.

Also, hide check's.. aren't that important. Most enemies will be a surprise, but with HiPS I guess thats different.

I was sort of exaggerating on the Hide-check thing, lol. As far as combat goes though, I do want to try and just stay out of sight--out of mind and just sneak around behind my party, activate skirmish, and snipe enemies. I wouldn't want to risk being out in the open around Undead and whatever other crazy things are around.

Let me know what you find out about the reroll, but would you happen to know about my other question: whether or not you could add a +3 enchantment that Relic arrow?

Speaking of that Arrow though, I think I found a loophole that'd probably make my DM flip out. If I put the Splitting enchantment on my bow... that would split the Raptor Arrow into two identical arrows with the exact same properties when it's fired. In the Relic Arrow description it says it isn't destroyed after use and comes back to your at the start of your next turn.
So unless there was some sort of rule I overlooked, wouldn't that mean that every time I fire a Raptor Arrow, I'd technically get two back? xD

Elfstone

2011-10-31, 06:45 PM

Yeah. But why would you want that many? I would just tell the DM you fired a few off from a splitting bow and take about 20 for the trip.

Yes, you can add a +3 enhancement to it.

I agree, evasion would be nice.

hex0

2011-10-31, 06:55 PM

I agree, evasion would be nice.

Scout 5/Trapsmith 5 isn't horrible either, but you'll need some Golem/Gravestrike wands etc. for the baddies.

Traps will be gravy to you.

Swiftx71

2011-10-31, 08:04 PM

Aw crap, yeah, Evasion :l Damn Rogue not being useful against the Undead.

Um... I don't suppose there's any items or minor Bloodline Templates or anything that gives Evasion without having to screw around with my build, is there?

And the loophole was just for fun, I'd probably only carry 20 arrows with me yeah. I wish we started at level 12 though so I'd have Greater Manyshot.

If I could get all the enchantments in, I'd be able to use Anklets of Translocation or something to move 10ft. to activate Skirmish (which applies to every arrow shot with Greater Manyshot [2 in this instance, right?] since the rolls are separate); with splitting, that becomes 4 arrows; each arrow is a Raptor Arrow that deals Bane damage to the target since I have the True Believer feat; and each of those arrows has Shadow Striking so that it completely ignores Damage Reduction. Oh, and Favored Enemy damage if that stacks as well.

:Q

I don't think I can afford +3 Enchantments like Splitting on an actual weapon though. I could at least put Shadow Striking on a Raptor Arrow.

Edit!-
Scout gets Evasion at level 5, so I could just give up one Ranger level (meaning I'd lose 1 BAB and Multishot, but Multishot doesn't stack with Skirmish save for the first arrow so I wouldn't be able to use it very often anyway) as an easy fix. Won't have to worry about what happens in Anti-magic fields or anything crazy like that then since I won't be relying on wands.