Help with alignment changes

[moonbomb]

Ok I wanted to know the different options in changing a PC's alignment.

Magic spells?
Rituals
etc...

I havent seen any hard and fast rules for alignment conversion. I dont want to see a pc tell me every time they play that they changed their alignment since nothing in the book says anything about it that i have found.

thanks for your help guys.

[Lucy Land]

There are no rules about it because it's all your call.

If your players have a habit of conveniently changing alignment at strategic times, tell them to erase their alignments. Then take note of how they act and what they do, and the next time alignment becomes an issue, you decide their alignments.

PS To be honest though, I've never met players who [ab]used alignment this way, so I'm curious what exactly your situation is.

[sirpercival]

There are a few ways to FORCE an alignment change (emmissary of barachiel, that spell from BoVD that makes people evil, atonement). But I don't think that's what you mean.

[moonbomb]

Well thats just it. As per rulesets or lack there of there is no real hard and fast rules for alignments since they are just guidelines perse except for when those alignment affect certain spells, spell like abilities, items and what not. what i suppose I really wanted to know is how to change in game a person's alignment. say for instant and LE wanted to become CG or LG.


If the change is gradual and self induced would it be more like per level change your alignment or what not.

[Lucy Land]

Is English your second language? 'Cause you're really not coming thru very well.


If the change is gradual and self induced...
Yes, it's gradual and based on what actions a character takes. (And to a lesser extent, why s/he takes those actions.)

If an evil character wants to become good, he should do good deeds. If he spends time doing good deeds and generally trying to better himself, he slowly becomes good. How much time is up to you, but I'd use this as a guideline: three consecutive good deeds gets him to neutral, and three more gets him to good.

[Narren]

Not sure what the problem is. Are you having issues with players acting arbitrarily? If so, it's not a problem with the alignment system, your players are just role playing either poorly or strangely. A gradual change is fine, and individual actions may sometimes not be consistent with a persons alignment sometimes, but they should generally act within their alignment.

[moonbomb]

I meant if the PC wanted to change his alignment

as in his personal choice. gradually meaning this alignment shifts once per level gain.

[Diefje]

If he wants to change it, Atonement spell works fine. If he can't or doesn't want to do that, it's at your DMs discretion. You could do it by level, by day/week/month/year that passes while he's being good, by performing X number of extraordinary good deeds, by passing the Path To Goodness with a number of morality conundrums, your pick!

[Serpentine]

You can do it that way if you want to, but I'd highly discourage it. Alignment, for the most part, is a roleplay-based thing, and for the most part changing it depends on roleplaying. It's not something you can just decide to change each level like wildshape forms. It's something that describes the natural inclinations, philosophies, outlooks, ideologies, intentions and actions of a character. If he wanted to change those things about his character, I'd expect him to act it out in-game. And, preferably, have a very good reason for it. "I changed my mind about what sort of character I want" may be a good enough reason, but in that case I'd likely prefer to just retroactively adjust it, or have them roll up a new character.

I have a chart for alignment - Good-Evil on the X-axis, Lawful-Chaotic on the Y-axis (or other way round, doesn't really matter). I have my players pick out where their character is on the chart at the start of the game. After that, it's up to me to track how they go. If they do something against their alignment - or exceptionally for their alignment - I shift them along according to the severity of their deed. Instant alignment changes are extremely rare, and only for truly extraordinary acts.
Take, for example, a moderately Lawful Good character - not Paladin variety LG, but ordinary citizen who means well and obeys authority. If they do something slightly Chaotic Evil - say, taking a lollypop from a child - they'll shift maybe a point towards True Neutral. They won't actually become True Neutral, not unless they were already very borderline, they'll just be a tiny bit less Lawful and Good. A once-off extremely Chaotic Evil act - say, going on a murder spree for no reason - is more likely to make them True Neutral, but even so is still not going to make them instantly Chaotic Evil. They may, however, be likely slipping steadily towards it.

[HunterOfJello]

If a smart Wizard PC is sitting around thinking that he would be more powerful if his soul was corrupted by evil and decides to go for it, there are a few methods.

-Saying, "Pazuzu Pazuzu Pazuzu Pazuzu" will have a chance to summon the demon lord Pazuzu who will give the person a Wish in return for changing their alignment one step towards CE. They'll either go one step towards chaotic or towards evil each time they make a deal with him. He only always shows up for Paladins though and may not show up at all for a wizard. There's specfici information on him in the Fiendish Codex.

-They could also use the Helm of Opposite Alignment and intentionally fail their will save. The same applies to the Book of Opposite Alignment.

-Going around and making sacrifices to Dark Gods is described in the variant rules section of the Book of Vile Darkness. It's not a RAW method of becoming definitively evil, but i don't know any DMs out there who will prevent you from becoming evil after you torture, mutilate, and sacrifice your 1000th innocent victim.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I meant if the PC wanted to change his alignment

as in his personal choice. gradually meaning this alignment shifts once per level gain.

That... doesn't make sense.

So if my alignment is LE, and I want to change it to LG, I don't have to change how I act? It just happens when I bash enough heads together?

[HunterOfJello]

That... doesn't make sense.

So if my alignment is LE, and I want to change it to LG, I don't have to change how I act? It just happens when I bash enough heads together?


I generally agree with you. Unless a player's character has already been acting towards a different alignment and wants to change, then they need to go off and take part in deeds necessary to change their alignment.

~

I found one more interesting spell for the list.

An evil character who brings a 10,000gp flawless diamond and convinces a good creature to cast the spell Sanctify the Wicked on them will be trapped in a crystal for 1 year. After the time lapse has passed, the crystal will shatter and they will emerge as a Sanctified Creature with the alignment of the person who cast the spell (LG, NG, CG) along with the Sanctified Creature template (+2 LA).

[Narren]

I meant if the PC wanted to change his alignment

as in his personal choice. gradually meaning this alignment shifts once per level gain.

He can make a personal choice to gradually change his alignment, but it should independent of level gain. Your level has nothing to do with your alignment, a change would be based on him changing his actions and outlook.

I had a player whose character was bent on conquering and/or controlling as much land as he could, partly because he was an egomaniac that thought he could do a better job running the show. Also helping him (another PC) was an evil cleric that was obsessed with corrupting him (long story as to why). With this clerics help, he went from Lawful Neutral to Lawful Evil and later back to Lawful Neutral when he realized that the ends weren't justifying his means. He was convinced to sacrifice people (rules from Book of Vile Darkness) to make the land a better place. HE didn't even realize he was evil until I pointed it out, it was a very subtle and organic transition.

[Diefje]

...He was convinced to sacrifice people (rules from Book of Vile Darkness) to make the land a better place. HE didn't even realize he was evil until I pointed it out, it was a very subtle and organic transition.
That's what they all say. "No no officer, you got it all wrong. You see, these burning orphans are actually warding off the evil spirits"