A lil' advice from the experts

[JimmyJr]

After a hiatus of ten years or so, a good friend of mine is about to start a 3.5 campaign. I've spent the last few weeks mulling what character I'd like to play, finally settling on a wizard, and I'd like a little input from the builders here in the GiTP forums. I'd appreciate any comments any of you have.

First, the game criteria.

1. Eberron setting (or based on the Eberron setting, anyway)

2. No books explicitly off the table, but the biggest cheese will be fairly heavily monitored.

3. The other players (there are going to be 3 or 4 others) are not optimizers. One of them, in fact, is playing her first PnP game. So I'm not looking to play the Mostest Awesomest Optimized Wizard Ever, and make everyone else look like they are standing still.

4. We're starting at 1st level, and I'd be shocked if we made it past 10th or so, over the course of 3 or 4 years. So I'm not really planning on a 20th level character.

Ok, now my criteria...

As I said before,I'm looking to play a wizard, with as much skill monkey as I can manage to squeeze in without crippling the spell casting aspect of the character. My theme is going to be a scholar/explorer/finder of rare anitiquities. I want a smart, competent, well-read wizard, with a lot of knowledge skills and an answer for most every question. Without being too silly, the theme and look I'm shooting for is Indiana Jones, although more Raiders of the Lost Ark than "jump in the bathtub to avoid the nuclear bomb", please. I'm not looking for the fisticuffs/melee aspect of Indiana, I'm more looking for the scholar whose curiosity drags him out into the field to get his hands dirty.

Where I'm currently at, build-wise, is focused diviner/loremaster/perhaps divine oracle, probably human for the feat and skill points.

The main area I'm looking for is suggestions on how to maximize skill points (beyond the Intelligence aspect, which I plan to have as much of as I can manage), although I'm ready to discuss ideas on any part of the character.

For example, I've spent the last couple of days toying with starting as a rogue, to get that big gulp of skill points at first level.

I've considered beguiler, but I don't want the restricted spell list. I also want a spellbook, as it fits with the character theme I'm shooting for.

Anyway, what do you all think?

[Urpriest]

You could aim for an Unseen Seer build. Staring with a level of Rogue or Spellthief, then Wizard until you can qualify for Unseen Seer. Unseen Seer has rather good skill points and abilities that bolster your divinations and roguish abilities.

[sirpercival]

My favorite Eberron wizard is a Changeling dual specialist/escalation mage/shadowcraft mage/recaster, but you want to play a diviner so that's off the table.

I've thought about making a Dream Dwarf Diviner/Earth Dreamer, which might be a nice way to fill 10 levels.

Another interesting alternative is a kalashtar diviner/telepath/cerebremancer (you can use Ardent instead for earlier entry) using the Psiotheurgist feat from dragon 349 (I'm doing that in an evil game with conjurer/ardent, with the creation and time mantles).

[Gotterdammerung]

After a hiatus of ten years or so, a good friend of mine is about to start a 3.5 campaign. I've spent the last few weeks mulling what character I'd like to play, finally settling on a wizard, and I'd like a little input from the builders here in the GiTP forums. I'd appreciate any comments any of you have.

First, the game criteria.

1. Eberron setting (or based on the Eberron setting, anyway)

2. No books explicitly off the table, but the biggest cheese will be fairly heavily monitored.

3. The other players (there are going to be 3 or 4 others) are not optimizers. One of them, in fact, is playing her first PnP game. So I'm not looking to play the Mostest Awesomest Optimized Wizard Ever, and make everyone else look like they are standing still.

4. We're starting at 1st level, and I'd be shocked if we made it past 10th or so, over the course of 3 or 4 years. So I'm not really planning on a 20th level character.

Ok, now my criteria...

As I said before,I'm looking to play a wizard, with as much skill monkey as I can manage to squeeze in without crippling the spell casting aspect of the character. My theme is going to be a scholar/explorer/finder of rare anitiquities. I want a smart, competent, well-read wizard, with a lot of knowledge skills and an answer for most every question. Without being too silly, the theme and look I'm shooting for is Indiana Jones, although more Raiders of the Lost Ark than "jump in the bathtub to avoid the nuclear bomb", please. I'm not looking for the fisticuffs/melee aspect of Indiana, I'm more looking for the scholar whose curiosity drags him out into the field to get his hands dirty.

Where I'm currently at, build-wise, is focused diviner/loremaster/perhaps divine oracle, probably human for the feat and skill points.

The main area I'm looking for is suggestions on how to maximize skill points (beyond the Intelligence aspect, which I plan to have as much of as I can manage), although I'm ready to discuss ideas on any part of the character.

For example, I've spent the last couple of days toying with starting as a rogue, to get that big gulp of skill points at first level.

I've considered beguiler, but I don't want the restricted spell list. I also want a spellbook, as it fits with the character theme I'm shooting for.

Anyway, what do you all think?

Loremaster works well.

Also you could ask your DM to change Shade hunter to a full casting progression PrC and change the fluff to fit eberron.

Cerebrex from dragon magazine issue #317 also in the dragon compendium is a nice knowledge, brain, puzzle skillmonkey class. Again you could ask your GM to change it to full spellcasting progression.

[Analytica]

Definitely take the Able Learner feat. Consider taking Human Paragon and/or Ruathar and/or Paragnostic Disciple to make most of your levels 4+Int skill points, and also +2 Int from Human Paragon. If good, consider the Nymph's Kiss feat.

[Vowtz]

.........................................

[Urpriest]

Come to think of it, there's a class in Secrets of Xendrik that's basically a Loremaster for Eberron...Primal Scholar I think? There's also an Eberron PrC that as a class feature lets you give lectures at universities, which seems like the sort of thing Indy would have.

[Vladislav]

3. The other players (there are going to be 3 or 4 others) are not optimizers.

....

Anyway, what do you all think?
If the other players are not optimizers, the worst thing you can do is ask for advice on this forum and expect not to outshine them. If you ever play with uber-optimizers, come back, this forum will help you catch up.

[Urpriest]

If the other players are not optimizers, the worst thing you can do is ask for advice on this forum and expect not to outshine them. If you ever play with uber-optimizers, come back, this forum will help you catch up.

To be fair, we can offer fluffy advice as well. Like my mention of the PrC that lets you lecture at Morgrave.

[Fouredged Sword]

If you are needed general advice for wizardry, well

There is a handbook for that (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19873034/Treantmonks_guide_to_Wizards:_Being_a_God)

Unseen seer is good. I would recommend ending the class with abjurant champion. There is just no reason not to use that class. By that point you will have the BaB, and swift action high power shield spells make for good late game use of a level one spell slot.

Another idea is to finish with swiftblade. This kills your spellcasting, but you get really good effects from the haste spell.

[JimmyJr]

If the other players are not optimizers, the worst thing you can do is ask for advice on this forum and expect not to outshine them. If you ever play with uber-optimizers, come back, this forum will help you catch up.

Oh, I expect to make an optimized character. I'm just not wanting an uber-powerful character that makes the other players feel like my retainers. But I didn't mean to make anyone think that your advice is not welcome. I'm immensely grateful for all the input, and I've had my GM right beside me here (we were watching the Niner's game while you guys answered), and we've been chewing over everyone's answers,and having a great time going over the options you fine folks have pointed out.

What the current theory on the build is:

1 Rogue/3 wizard/3 Human Paragon/10 loremaster.
17 levels is probably more than enough plan for this game, frankly.
Able Learner is a fine feat, and I'll almost certainly be adding it to the character. With the rogue/wizard combo, with a little imagination picking the human paragon skill list, I can get around the able learner's issue with total cross class skill ranks for any skill I really want that isn't a rogue/wizard skill.

This is all awesome stuff, and exactly what I was looking for, thank you all very much!

[Flickerdart]

Why Loremaster and not Arcane Trickster?

[MrRigger]

Personally, if you're looking to make Indy, you might think about playing an Archivist instead of a Wizard. You get more skill points per level (4+Int) and Archivists are fluffed as seekers of lost knowledge and fallen empires (specifically their religions) even more than Wizards. Plus there's the Dark Knowledge for extra eureka moments on top of buffing your party members (and there's nothing else for not outshining your partymates like buffing them so they can do their jobs even better).

Of course, if you really like the Wizard (and who doesn't? Losers, that's who!:smallwink:) and want to do some divining, try looking at sticking a little Divine Oracle (CD) in your build. Despite the name, you don't require any Divine Spellcasting to enter, and it gives you some Divination bonuses, as well as trap sensing.

MrRigger

[JimmyJr]

Why Loremaster and not Arcane Trickster?

A theme choice only. I think Loremaster follows the knowledge-centric scholarly nature of the character. Other than that, Arcane Trickster would work very well.

Personally, if you're looking to make Indy, you might think about playing an Archivist instead of a Wizard. You get more skill points per level (4+Int) and Archivists are fluffed as seekers of lost knowledge and fallen empires (specifically their religions) even more than Wizards. Plus there's the Dark Knowledge for extra eureka moments on top of buffing your party members (and there's nothing else for not outshining your partymates like buffing them so they can do their jobs even better).

Of course, if you really like the Wizard (and who doesn't? Losers, that's who!:smallwink:) and want to do some divining, try looking at sticking a little Divine Oracle (CD) in your build. Despite the name, you don't require any Divine Spellcasting to enter, and it gives you some Divination bonuses, as well as trap sensing.

MrRigger

I was really looking close at Divine Oracle to begin with, and I like the special abilities that came along with it. I only moved DO off my list because I want loremaster first, and by the time I get through loremaster I get into the area of "the campaign isn't likely to last until we get to this level". Both the GM of this game and I (we've gamed together for a long time) believe in slow levelling, and lots of roleplaying. I just can't make myself believe the character will age enough to add another class after loremaster.

Other than that, Divine Oracle was right there.

[Anarchy_Kanya]

Ah, MrRigger beat me to it. I also wanted to suggest Archivist. And if not for the "I want a spellbook" requirement, a Bard would be great.

P.S. I don't like Wizard. :smallannoyed:

[hex0]

Are you sure that you don't want to play a Factotum instead? Would fit the character concept better. :smallwink:

I'd suggest the Trickster variant of Spellthief, as it gets better spellcasting.

Trickster Spellthief 2/Wizard 3/Ultimate Magus 10 (mixed with Loremaster 5 as needed) would get you spellcasting as a 18th level wizard and 9th level Trickster Spellthief (which can also choose Bard spells).

I had loads of fun with Techsmith entered from Wizard. It has d6 hit die, 4 skills, two good saves, and medium BAB which is already a boost from Wizard. You need able learner for sure (among other things) to meet the requirements and you'll have to refluff it for Eberron. (Which shouldn't be too hard with all the Steampunkery).