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PotatoNinja
2011-10-30, 11:12 PM
Dragonlance was about average people doing extra ordinary things. Reading the books as a children really left an imprint on me, and rereading them as an adult has really re-affirmed that adoration I have for these books. Dragonlance was also one of the first marketed D&D campaign settings. As well, many other campaign settings sprang from, or are connected to Dragonlance throught the editions. Ravenloft, Planescape, and even rumors of Spelljammer being a creation of the Tinker Gnomes (although I can’t verify this).

I wish to undo the nightmare that is the 3.5 rendition of Dragonlance and bring the prestige classes offered in the 3.5 DLCS book more into line in terms of sheer playability and power. It is a labor of love and I am starting small.

This preliminary post contains no strong homebrewed classes and is primarily here to put my ideas out there and to gain input and information from the community in hopes that such input will then lead to a homebrew version that is coherent and balanced, but that maintains the original flavor.

I will start with the Solmanic order of Knights.

Preface

Just to give a broad overview It is a tiered system, going Crown -> Sword -> to Rose. In order to fully progress into order of the rose (and thus be part of the upper crust elites) the classes are designed for clerics and terms of prerequisites needed to feasibly get to the next order of knight hood.

Crowns are primarily foot soldiers with no Spell progression
Swords are primarily casters, who gain mainly spell progression, and a few smite/day. They gain nothing special or unique and need to most tweaking within the system I envision.
Rose is primarily a paladin, who gains full casting/day and a few other tricks.

The above represents a major problem in the design of this order mechanically, but thematically it is very rich. In order to progress in the knighthood, one must take on aspects of a fighter, cleric, and paladin.

Lets look at the Prereqs cut each class down to their most important mechanical aspects without feats/skills. With the addition of feats and skills, these classes become nigh unplayable in any normal campaign.

KotCrown BAB 3 Fort save 4
KotSword BAB 6 Will 7/Able to cast first level Divine spells
KotRose BAB 8 Will 8/Able to cast Divine Spells


I plan to: 1. Stream line the accession through the ranks for non-clerics
2. Make all ranks more accessible to non clerics
3. Retain the usefulness of each rank as a separate entity (meaning, a maxed level in each or just one of the ranks would still be desirable to some characters with specific goals in mind)
4. Retool the class features, skills, and abilities to be more balanced and diverse to reflect a more enjoyable gameplay. Speaking plainly, I would like to bring Knight of the crown solidly into the tier 3 category. Sword and rose are primarily casters and don’t require as many retooling to make playable, but maybe desireable.


Thematically i like this, only those who are in tune with their god and it's alignment can become leaders of this group. Unfortunately, this has several implications for the order as a whole that are uncomfortable with me.

Implications and other thoughts

1. This means that Order of the Crown, the lowest order, which is also the only order to not have casting progression, is the only order that you're average melee character can ever really get into. They will fore-ever be reduced to the foot soldiers of this order, no matter how pious they might be. Mechanically this is bad for those who wish to advance in the ranks
a. Thematically this is fine. The life of sever honor, chivalry, and nobility does not fit everybody, and not everybody who joins the order does so because of personal convictions for honor. Often it is for defense of their nation. (they do have alignment restrictions for joining though)

2. Order of the Sword is nearly useless as an order because order of the Rose offers full spell casting progression and many more classes and features. From a mechanics point of view, order of the sword would have almost no members.

Thematically the crown are the general deployed forces and the Rose are the commanding leaders and council members for the Knightly courts. The rose is almost never seen conducting battle. Sword has little fluff within the DLCS book, and I’m hard pressed to recall their function in the literature. They appear to simply be more seasoned Crowns with minor healing abilities.


I tinkered with the prereqs as an idea, and removed the feats, skills, and saves as prereqs, but kept the spell casting progression and BAB prereqs of the second two orders. This was just as a theoretical thought experiment to see what kind of odd mix i would get if i just started making these higher level tiers of the order more accessible by simply cutting the red tape out.

Assume that a character wants to achieve the most senior rank in the order, to be on equal footing with his peers after say, 20 years of long service, but does not want to play a straight cleric.

you need, in order to achieve Knight of the Rose 10

3 in fighter (or Warblade, whatever have you, just to get the +3 BAB)
1 Knight of the Crown 1
1 Cleric (to satisfy divine spell casting limitations)
5 Knight of the Sword (you could replace four of these levels with any divine spellcaster variant that allows for medium BAB progression and still be ok)
10 Knight of the Rose

This leaves you with
BAB 18/13/8/3
F/R/W Saves 16/5/13
ECL 20
Caster Level 16 (8th level spells)
And a small splattering of class abilities and features.

So far, this is what the number crunching gets us, making minimal changes. It does not help melee characters who don't want to cast rise in the ranks, but it does show us what is possible for a non standard cleric to do with a few changes to the prereqs. SOlid BAB, not bad spell progression, and more abilities and features than a cleric would normally get.

This seems to me to be tier 3-2 easily in terms of gameplay because of the casting. Does anybody have any better input on about how strong this build would be?

To look at another scenario playing in my mind, Knight of the Crown is an ok class in itself for melee classes. (i know it's no warblade, but it's not as LOL as fighter, and looks easy to modify to get it "up to speed") many melee types might chose to pursue Knight of the crown to 10 to gain the benefits of it's class features, but then wish to advance through the Sword order, and then advance into the rose in order to gain seniority and standing withing the community.

To do this, the level progression would have to look more like...
3 "fighter" type
10 Knight of the Crown
1 Cleric
1 Knight of the Sword
5 Knight of the Rose

(Interestingly, they must all be lawfull good, meaning no barbarian rage + Knight of the crown STR stacking abilities :()

This gives
BAB 18/13/8/3
F/R/W Saves 18/5/12
ECL 20
Caster Level 7 (4th level spells)

Similar to the first build, but with alot less magic. I would place this at Tier 4, maybe three. Any input on where to place this class pre tweaking?

Both builds suffer from very limited skill choices, and a horrible case of MAD.
I make no mention of the class abilities, because they are subject to change

So for now, I put it towards the general community for their thoughts and opinions of how the classes work and interact with each other Mechanically and Thematically. Please keep in mind that I am asking for mechanical input from a perspective of stripping skills/feats/save progressions from prerequisites. Again, this is done to avoid over complicating the issue and represent stage one of re-tooling Dragonlance 3.5, stripping it all down to the bare basics.

PotatoNinja
2011-10-31, 07:08 PM
Despite the lack of input i have received i have gone ahead and attempted to put forth a rough draft of the Solamnic Order of Knights

The Solamnic Order of Knights
http://forums.everything-dragon.com/uploads/gallery/1215647071/med_gallery_1446_5_54355.jpg

The Knight of the Crown



Prerequisites

BAB +3
Fortitude save +3
Knowledge Religion 1

Knight of the Crown

Alignment

A Knight of the Crown’s alignment must Lawful Good.

Hit Die

D12.

Class Skills

The Knight of the Crown's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are CLimb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Handle Animal, Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), (Wis), Knowledge (Nobility) (Int), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Swim (Str)


Skill Points at Each Additional Level
6 + Int modifier.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency

A Knight of the Crown proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (including tower shields).

(Thank you 10 times over Hazzardevil for the table!)


{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fortitude Save|Reflex Save|Will Save|[center]Special|Divine Inspiration Points

1st|+1|+2|+0|+2|Strength of Honor 1/day, Aura of Courage, Divine Inspiration, Lay on Hands|2
2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3|Knightly Courage, Heroic Initiative +1, Divine Cunning|2
3rd|+3|+3|+1|+3|Strength of Honor 2/day,Fight to the death, Divine Bulwark 1/day|2
4th|+4|+4|+1|+4|Armored Mobility, Endurance of Honor|3
5th|+5|+4|+1|+4|Strength of Honor 3/day, Heroic Initiative +2, Divine Protection|3
6th|+6/+1|+5|+2|+5|Might of Honor, Divine Bulwark 2/day|3
7th|+7/+2|+5|+2|+5|Strength of Honor 4/day|4
8th|+8/+3|+6|+2|+6|Heroic Initiative +3, Struggle of Honor, Divine Opportunity|4
9th|+9/+4 |+6|+3|+6|Strength of Honor 5/day, Divine Bulwark 3/day|4
10th|+10/+5|+7|+3|+7|Crown of Knighthood, Indomitable Will|5
[/table][/QUOTE]
Class Features

Divine Inspiration: A Knight of the crown is able to pull forth power, insight, and wisdom from the deity they worship. At the beginning of each encounter they gain a number of Divine inspiration points equal to the amount on the table above as per their class level.

Divine Cunning: At Second level, Before making an attack roll, Damage Roll, or skill check, a Knight of the Crownmay spend one Divine Inspiration point to receive a bonus equal to his Charisma Modifier. This is a free action and can be used on Knight of the Crownr turn or others, and takes no time to activate.

Divine Protection: At 5th level The gods shed their protective Aura around a Knight of the Crown for a brief time, deflecting otherwise deadly attacks. A Knight of the Crown may spend one inspiration point to gain their Charisma Modifier to their AC as a dodge Bonus. This works while wearing Heavy and Medium Armor and is not restricted by maximum Dexterity bonus. This ability can be used at any time and does not have to be on the Knight of the Crown’s turn. This action does not take any time to activate.

Divine Opportunity: At 8th level a Knight of the Crown can spending three Divine Inspiration points may take another standard action during their turn.


Strength of Honor (Su): One per day a Knight of the Crown of first level can gain a +4 moral bonus to their Strength score for a number of rounds equal to 3 + their charisma modifier. For every two additional levels she gains in Knight of the Crown, they can use this ability once more per day. (twice/day at level 3, three times/day at level 5, four times/day at level 7, and 5 times/day at level 9)

Aura of Courage (Su): Beginning at First level, a Knight of the Crown is immune to fear (magical or otherwise). Each ally within 10 feet of her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects.
This ability functions while the Knight of the Crown is conscious, but not if she is unconscious or dead.

Lay on Hands (Su): Beginning at 1st level, a Knight of the Crown with a Charisma score of 12 or higher can heal wounds (her own or those of others) by touch. Each day he or she can heal a total number of hit points of damage equal to her Knight of the Crown level × her Charisma bonus. A Knight of the Crown may choose to divide her healing among multiple recipients, and he or she doesn’t have to use it all at once. Using lay on hands is a standard action. Levels in Knight of the Sword and or Knight of the Rose stack with levels of Knight of the crown for determining how many hit points can be cured with this ability.
Alternatively, a Knight of the Crown can use any or all of this healing power to deal damage to undead creatures. Using lay on hands in this way requires a successful melee touch attack and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. The Knight of the Crown decides how many of her daily allotment of points to use as damage after successfully touching an undead creature.



Knightly Courage (Su): A Knight of the Crown of second level or higher adds his Charisma Modifier (if positive) to all saving throws. This ability does not stack with any other similar ability.

Heroic Initiative (Ex): Staring at second level a Knight of the Crown gains a +1 competence bonus in initiative checks. Thos bonus increases by 1 for every three levels of Knight of the Crown ther-after to a total of +2 at level 5, and +3 at level 8.

Fight to the death (Ex):At third level a Knight of the Crown gains the feat Diehard regardless of whether or not they meet the prerequisites.

Divine Bulwark (Ex): A knight of the Crown cal call upon his deity to protect him in his time of need. Starting at third level, one a day, a Knight of the Crown can call forth a shimmering Aura of light to surround him that functions as the spell Blur with a Caster Level equal to his number of levels in Knight of the Crown. A Knight does not deceive his opponents with illusions, this ability as a divine extraordinary affect that acts as deflection rather than illusory.

For every three levels in Knight of the Crown a character possess he can use this ability one more time per day, for a total of Twice at level 6, and three times at level 9. Upon reaching 9th level, a Knight of the Crown can create a greater affect by burning all three charges of this ability at once. A Knight of the Crown can create the affects of the spell Displacement with a caster level equal the Knight of the Crown's class levels.

Endurance of Honor (Su): When using Strength of Honor a Knight of the Crown of 4th level or higher receives a +4 Bonus to Constitution.

Armoured Mobility (Ex): Beginning at 4th level a Knight of the Crown treats heavy armour as medium armour for all purpose, including running speed. Additionally, armour check penalties for Heavy armour are reduced by 1. This reduction in armour check penalty stacks with those granted by masterwork and Mythral items.

Might of Honor (Su): When using Strength of Honor a Knight of the crown receives a +6 moral bonus to their strength score, instead of 4.

Struggle of Honor (Su): When using Strength of Honor a Knight of the Crown of 8th level or higher receives a +2 Moral bonus to his will saves.

Indomitable Will (Ex): While using Strength of Honor, a Knight of the Crown of 10th level or higher gains a +4 bonus on Will saves to resist enchantment and compulsion spells. This bonus stacks with all other modifiers, including the morale bonus on Will saves he also receives during Strength of Honor.

Crown of the Knighthood (Su): A knight of the crownmay act as if under the spell Heroic Valour spell once per day, the affect Last for 10 minutes. (While under the affects of heroic Valour the Knight of the crown gains a +4 moral bonus on attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, and saving throws and 15 temporary hit points)


What tier would this class be? After that, any and all comments, criticism, and input is welcomed :)

Hazzardevil
2011-11-01, 02:09 AM
You don't remember in the book what the knights of the sword did.
I think it was knights of the sword who were foot soldiers, knights of the crown were a royal guard of something and knight of the rose was for nobles. None of them had any spellcasting due to the general mistrust of the wizards.

Also heres a table for knight of the crown.

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fortitude Save|Reflex Save|Will Save|[center]Special

1st|+1|+2|+0|+2|Strength of Honor 1/day, Aura of Courage
2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3|Knightly Courage, Heroic Initiative +1
3rd|+3|+3|+1|+3|Strength of Honor 2/day|Fight to the death
4th|+4|+4|+1|+4|Armored Mobility, Endurance of Honor
5th|+5|+4|+1|+4|Strength of Honor 3/day, Heroic Initiative +2
6th|+6/+1|+5|+2|+5|Might of Honor
7th|+7/+2|+5|+2|+5|Strength of Honor 4/day
8th|+8/+3|+6|+2|+6|Heroic Initiative +3, Struggle of Honor
9th|+9/+4 |+6|+3|+6|Strength of Honor 4/day
10th|+10/+5|+7|+3|+7|Crown of Knighthood, Indomitable WIll
[/table]

magwaaf
2011-11-01, 12:24 PM
ah ijust pictured a kender knight lol

PotatoNinja
2011-11-01, 03:04 PM
You don't remember in the book what the knights of the sword did.
I think it was knights of the sword who were foot soldiers, knights of the crown were a royal guard of something and knight of the rose was for nobles. None of them had any spellcasting due to the general mistrust of the wizards.

Also heres a table for knight of the crown.


Ah wow, thank you very much for the table, is there an easy way to do these that i am missing, or perhaps a tutorial on how to make them?

All the online sources i find agree that Knights of the Crown were the youngest Knights traditionally.

The fear of Magic was limited to Arcane magic, as the knights did employ several clerics. The entire order of the Sword has "High Cleric" as the title for their leader.

After i finish some homework today i plan to start tinkering with the order of the Sword and add a few more things to the Crown.

Hazzardevil
2011-11-01, 03:20 PM
Ah wow, thank you very much for the table, is there an easy way to do these that i am missing, or perhaps a tutorial on how to make them?

All the online sources i find agree that Knights of the Crown were the youngest Knights traditionally.

The fear of Magic was limited to Arcane magic, as the knights did employ several clerics. The entire order of the Sword has "High Cleric" as the title for their leader.

After i finish some homework today i plan to start tinkering with the order of the Sword and add a few more things to the Crown.

I believe an order of knights was created for mages, can't remember which book it was in. (Sourcebook, I don't remember anything about this order in the books, will you be rewriting the order of thorn and the others as well?)

Heres a quick guide on writing tables.



{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fortitude Save|Reflex Save|Will Save|[center]Special

Put that at the top of every table for a class.
If you want to add additional columns then put | and the name of the new column. For all the other rows such as levels, put what you want in and then put | to separate each column. Cipherthe3vil made a good guide on table-making, although I simply learnt how to do it from experience.

PotatoNinja
2011-11-01, 03:28 PM
Ah, thank you Hazzardevil for the quick intro to tables, that's very useful.

it is indeed the order of the thorn that is a Mage/Knight type of class under the Nerakan Knights, and i will be redoing them as well. They are the one i'm most excited to redo actually.

For now these are all rough drafts though, version .5's if you will.

PotatoNinja
2011-11-01, 07:04 PM
Prerequisites
Able to cast first level Divine spells
Feats Reserved for later discretion
Alignment Lawful Good
Base Attack Bonus +6
Base Save Bonus Fortitude +6
Knowledge Nobility 2, Knowledge Religion 4, Ride 4

Special: To become a Knight of the rose a character must also have one level of the Knight of the Crown prestige class.

Knightly Virtue: A character must be a Knight of the Crown in good standing before he can petition the Order of the Sword to be accepted into that body. During his time as a Knight of the Crown, the candidate must demonstrate his virtue and his adherence to the oath and the measure, Before he can apply to a Knightly Council for acceptance into the Order of the Sword, he must have accomplished all the following, and be able to present a witness to attest to his performance.


A Journey of 500 miles or more in length and 30 days or more in time
Three tests of the knight’s wisdom
One test of his generosity
One test of compassion
Single Combat with a worthy evil opponent whose CR is no more than two less than the Knights
A deed of heroism and honor that upholds the virtues of Knightly Honor and good.


Class Skills
The Knight of the Swords Class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha),Heal (Wis) Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge History (Int), Knowledge Nobility and Royalty (Int), Knowledge Religion (Int), Knowledge The Planes (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spellcraft (Int)


Skill Points at Each Additional Level
2 + Int modifier.

Weapon and Armour proficiency: Knight of the Sword do not gain any weapon or armor proficiency.

Spells per Day/Spells Known: At each level the Knight of the Sword gains new spells per day (and spells known if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in a divine spell casting class to which he belonged before adding the prestige class level. However he does not gain any other class features or benefits of his previous class. If the character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a Knight of the Sword he must choose which one to raise every level he or she gains in Knight of the Sword.


{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fortitude Save|Reflex Save|Will Save|Special|[center] Spells Per Day

1st|+0|+2|+0|+2|Smite Evil 1/day, Turn Undead| +1 Level of Existing Class
2nd|+1|+3|+0|+3|Faith Healing| +1 Level of Existing Class
3rd|+2|+3|+1|+3|Smite Evil 2/day| +1 Level of Existing Class
4th|+3|+4|+1|+4|Dignified Bestowal| +1 Level of Existing Class
5th|+3|+4|+1|+4|Smite Evil 3/day| +1 Level of Existing Class
6th|+4|+5|+2|+5| Aligned Weapon| +1 Level of Existing Class
7th|+5|+5|+2|+5|Smite Evil 4/day| +1 Level of Existing Class
8th|+6|+6|+2|+6|Granted Domain| +1 Level of Existing Class
9th|+6|+6|+3|+6|Smite Evil 5/day| +1 Level of Existing Class
10th|+7|+7|+3|+7|Soul of the Knighthood| +1 Level of Existing Class
[/table]

Smite Evil (Su):Once per day, a Knight of the rose may attempt to smite evil with one normal melee attack. She adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack roll and deals 1 extra point of damage per Knight of the Rose level. If the Knight accidentally smites a creature that is not evil, the smite has no effect, but the ability is still used up for that day.
At 3rd level, and at every two levels thereafter, the Knight may smite evil one additional time per day, to a maximum of five times per day at 10th level.

Turn or Rebuke Undead (Su):A Knight of the Sword of Lawful Good alignment has the power to affect undead creatures by channeling the power of his faith through his holy symbol
A Knight of the Sword may attempt to turn undead a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Charisma modifier. A cleric with 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (religion) gets a +2 bonus on turning checks against undead.

Faith Healing (Su): A Knight of the Rose of second level or higher can use healing spells to their maximum effect on creatures of the same alignment as the Knight (including the Knight himself). Any spell with the healing descriptor cast on such creatures works as if under the effects of a Maximize Spell feat (without using a higher-level spell slot).

Dignified Bestowal (Su): A Knight of the Rose may show chivalrous restraint in battle, and this honorable restraint allows a Knight of the Rose to empower his allies even more. A knight of the rose of 4th level may add a +2 bonus to the increase in ability scores conveyed when casting a transmutation spell in exchange for one use of Smite Evil.

Aligned Weapon (Su): At 6th level any weapon the Knight of the sword is currently wielding is treated as Lawful and Good for purpose of overcoming Damage Reduction. Additionally, against evil opponents any weapon wielded by a Knight of the Rose is also treated as a Holy weapon and deals an additional 2d6 damage against all evil creatures.

Granted Domain (Ex):
A Knight of the Rose gains access to one of his or her deity’s domains, as well as the granted power of that domain. The extra domain expands a Knight of the Rose whose divine casting class was a paladin selection of spells, but he or she does not gain the ability to cast higher-level spells than he or she otherwise could. Knights of the Rose gain an additional domain but otherwise use the rules for preparing spells from their domains normally.

Soul of the Knighthood (Su):A knight ofthe sword is the living embodiment of devotion and piety to his god. One per day a Knight of the Rose of 10th level can cloak himself is a Holy Aura (as the spell) for duration of 10 minutes. This affect only affects the Knight, not his allies.


Comments, input, questions?

PotatoNinja
2011-11-03, 09:24 PM
And finally, the Knight of the rose.

Prerequisites
Able to cast Second level Divine spells
Feats Reserved for later discretion
Alignment Lawful Good
Base Attack Bonus +8
Base Save Bonus Fortitude +8
Knowledge Nobility 6, Knowledge Religion 6, Ride 6

Special: To become a Knight of the Rose a character must also have one level of the Knight of the Crown prestige class.

Knightly Virtue: A character must be a Knight of the Sword in good standing before he can petition the Order of the Rose to be accepted into that body. During his time as a Knight of the Sword, the candidate must demonstrate his virtue and his adherence to the oath and the measure, Before he can apply to a Knightly Council for acceptance into the Order of the SRose, he must have accomplished all the following, and be able to present a witness to attest to his performance.


A Journey of 500 miles or more in length and 30 days or more in time
Three tests of the knight’s wisdom
One test of his generosity
One test of compassion
Single Combat with a worthy evil opponent whose CR is no more than two less than the Knights
A deed of heroism and honor that upholds the virtues of Knightly Honor and good.


Knight of the Rose

Hit Die d10


Class Skills
The Knight of the Rose’s Class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are CLimb (Str), are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis) ), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge History (Int), Knowledge Nobility and Royalty (Int), Knowledge Religion (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Swim (Str) Spellcraft (Int)

Skill Points at Each Additional Level
4 + Int modifier.

Weapon and Armour proficiency: Knight of the Sword do not gain any weapon or armor proficiency.

Spells per Day/Spells Known: At each level the Knight of the Rose gains new spells per day (and spells known if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in a divine spell casting class to which he belonged before adding the prestige class level. However he does not gain any other class features or benefits of his previous class. If the character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a Knight of the Rose he must choose which one to raise every level he or she gains in Knight of the Rose


{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fortitude Save|Reflex Save|Will Save|Special|[center] Spells Per Day

1st|+1|+2|+0|+2|Rallying Cry, Bolstering AUra | +1 Level of Existing Class
2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3|Inspire Courage (2/day, +2)| +1 Level of Existing Class
3rd|+3|+3|+1|+3| Aura of Damage| +1 Level of Existing Class
4th|+4|+4|+1|+4|Inspire Greatness| +1 Level of Existing Class
5th|+5|+4|+1|+4|Inspire Courage (3/day, +3)| +1 Level of Existing Class
6th|+6|+5|+2|+5|Wisdom of the measure, Damage Reduction Aura | +1 Level of Existing Class
7th|+7|+5|+2|+5|Indomnitable Mind | +1 Level of Existing Class
8th|+8|+6|+2|+6|Inspire Courage (4/day, +4)| +1 Level of Existing Class
9th|+9|+6|+3|+6|Final Stand, Fast Healing Aura | +1 Level of Existing Class
10th|+10/+5|+7|+3|+7|Knighthood’s Flower| +1 Level of Existing Class
[/table]

Class Features

Auras (Ex): The Knight of the Rose exerts an effect on allies in his vicinity. The Knight of the Rose may project one aura at a time.

Projecting an aura is a swift action . The aura remains in effect until the Knight of the Rose uses a free action to dismiss it or activates another aura. A Knight of the Rose can have an aura active continually; thus, an aura can be in effect at the start of a combat encounter even before the Knight takes his first turn.

Activating an aura involves haranguing, ordering, directing, encouraging, cajoling, or calming allies. A Knight of the Rose sizes up the enemy, allies, and the terrain, then gives allies the direction that they can use to do their best.

Unless otherwise noted, an aura affects all allies within 60 feet (including himself) who can hear the Knight. An ally must have an Intelligence score of 3 or higher and be able to understand the Knight's language to gain the bonus. A Knight's aura is dismissed if he is dazed, unconscious, stunned, paralyzed, or otherwise unable to be heard or understood by his allies.

Rallying Cry (Su): The Knight of the Rose can , as a free action, utter a powerful shout that causes all allies within 60 feet to gain a +1 moral bonus on their next attack roll and increase their base speed by 5 feet on their next action. Rallying cry can be used up to 5 times per day, and can oly affect allies who can hear the Knight of the Rose.
Bolstering Aura (Ex): A knight of the Rose may grant his allies a bonus to Saving throws that is equal to half his class levels rounded down.

Inspire Courage (Su): at 2nd level, a Knight of the Rose can inspire courage in his allies (including himself) twice per day, bolstering them against fear and improving their combat abilities. TO be affected, an ally must be able to hear a Knight of the Rose speak. The affects last for as long as the rose speaks, and upto 5 rounds thereafter. While speaking, the rose can fight but cannot cast spells or activate magic items by spell completion. Affected Allies gain a +2 moral bonus on saving throws against Charm and fear affects and a +2 moral bonus on attack and damage rolls. AT Fifth level and again at 8th level, this bonus increases by +1 and the knight may make use of this ability one more time per day.

Aura of Damage(Ex): A knight of the rose may grant his allies a bonus to damage rolls that is equal to half his class levels rounded down.

Inspire Greatness (Su): A Knight of the ROse of 4th level or higher can inspire greatness in himself or a single willing ally within 30 feet, granting him or her extra fighting capability. For every three levels a Knight of the Rose attains beyond 4th, he can target one additional ally with a single use of this ability (two at 7th level, three at 10th). To inspire greatness, a Knight of the Rose must speak and an ally must hear him speak. The effect lasts for as long as the ally hears the Knight of the Rose speak and for 5 rounds thereafter. A creature inspired with greatness gains 2 bonus Hit Dice (d10s), the commensurate number of temporary hit points (apply the target’s Constitution modifier, if any, to these bonus Hit Dice), a +2 competence bonus on attack rolls, and a +1 competence bonus on Fortitude saves. The bonus Hit Dice count as regular Hit Dice for determining the effect of spells that are Hit Dice dependant. Inspire greatness is a mind-affecting ability.

Damage Reduction Aura(Ex): A knight of the rose may grant his allies a bonus to damage reduction rolls that is equal to half his class levels rounded down. This is treated as Damage Reduction/--

Indomitable Mind (Ex): At 7th level, a Knight of the Rose is immune to all compulsion affects, accept beneficial ones such as aid.

Final Stand (Ex): One per day, a Knight of the Rose of 9th level can inspire allies to heoroic affect. All allies within 10 feet of the Knight of the Rose are healed as if Cure Moderate wounds had been cast on them by the Knight of the Rose, using the Knights affective caster level. Additionally, any affected allies gain a +4 competence bonus on their Strength scores, Damage Reduction 5/-, and fast healing 3. This ability can affect a number of creatures equal to his Class levels + his charisma modifier, and last equally as long.

Fast Healing Aura(Ex): A knight of the rose may grant his allies a bonus to fast healing that is equal to half his class levels rounded down.

Knighthoods Flower (Ex): At 10th level a Knight of the rose can no longer be surprised or caught flat footed and receives a +2 deflection bonus to AC.

A Reflection so far.
Ok, for the sake of brevity, i will not be posting a big table, just a small one for references.


If a player wishes to reach level 10 Knight of the Rose by level 20 but enter the Knighthood as a cleric, they must proceed roughly as follows


{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fortitude Save|Reflex Save|Will Save|Special|[center] Spells Per Day

1st Cleric|+0|+2|+0|+2|| +1 Level of Existing Class
2nd Cleric|+1|+3|+0|+3|| +1 Level of Existing Class
3rd Cleric|+2|+3|+1|+3|| +1 Level of Existing Class
4th Cleric|+3|+4|+1|+4|| +1 Level of Existing Class
5th 'Crown|+4|+6|+1|+6||
6th 'Crown|+5|+7|+1|+7||
7th 'Crown|+6/+1|+7|+2|+7||
8th 'Rose|+6/+1|+9|+2|+9|| +1 Level of Existing Class
9th 'Rose|+7/+2|+9|+2|+9|| +1 Level of Existing Class
10th 'Rose|+8/+3|+10|+3|+10|| +1 Level of Existing Class
[/table]

The means that the Cleric will have a caster level of 17 upon reaching 20th ECL (assuming no level adjustment.)

Variants include (with no charts)
1. Cleric 4/ KotC 3 / KotS 3/ KotR 10
2. Cleric 7/ KotC 1/ KotS 3/ KotR 9
3. Cleric 7/ KotC 1/ KotS 10/ KotR 2

Is the Knight of the Rose to overpowered to have their class features and their caster levels intact? SHould i limit caster level progression to every other level?(this would harm Knight of the Crowns as well though)

Doing the Number crunching, there is a very limited way in which a Melee character can reach level 10 Knight of the roseBefore Level 20. It should be noted that i have worked out three possible variant for this cleric Knight of the Rose and they have slightly more feasibility in reaching that destination. To give an Idea of how this might be achieved i present the following:

For the MELEE characters


{table=head]Level and Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fortitude Save|Reflex Save|Will Save|Special|[center] Spells Per Day

1st Fighter Type|+1|+2|+0|+0||
2nd Fighter Type|+2|+3|+0|+0||
3rd |+3|+3|+1|+1||
4th Knight of the Crown|+4|+5|+1|+3|Strength of Honor 1/day, Aura of Courage|
5th Knight of the Crown|+5|+6|+1|+4|Knightly Courage, Heroic Initiative +1|
6th Knight of the Crown|+6/+1|+6|+2|+4|Strength of Honor 2/day,Fight to the death, Divine Bulwark 1/day|
7th Cleric|+6/+1|+8|+2|+6|Turn undead|
8th Knight of the Sword|+6/+1|+10|+2|+8|Smite Evil 1/day, Turn Undead| +1 Level of Existing Class
9th Knight of the Sword|+7/+3|+11|+3|+9|Faith Healing| +1 Level of Existing Class
10th Knight of the Sword|+8/+3|+11|+3|+9|Smite Evil 2/day| +1 Level of Existing Class
[/table]


Class Features For this hodge podge

Strength of Honor (Su): One per day a Knight of the Crown of first level can gain a +4 moral bonus to their Strength score for a number of rounds equal to 3 + their charisma modifier. For every two additional levels she gains in Knight of the Crown, they can use this ability once more per day. (twice/day at level 3, three times/day at level 5, four times/day at level 7, and 5 times/day at level 9)

Aura of Courage (Su): Beginning at First level, a Knight of the Crown is immune to fear (magical or otherwise). Each ally within 10 feet of her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects.
This ability functions while the Knight of the Crown is conscious, but not if she is unconscious or dead.


Knightly Courage (Su): A Knight of the Crown of second level or higher adds his Charisma Modifier (if positive) to all saving throws

Heroic Initiative (Ex): Staring at second level a Knight of the Crown gains a +1 competence bonus in initiative checks. Thos bonus increases by 1 for every three levels of Knight of the Crown ther-after to a total of +2 at level 5, and +3 at level 8.

Fight to the death (Ex):At third level a Knight of the Crown gains the feat Diehard regardless of whether or not they meet the prerequisites.

Divine Bulwark (Ex): A knight of the Crown cal call upon his deity to protect him in his time of need. Starting at third level, one a day, a Knight of the Crown can call forth a shimmering Aura of light to surround him that functions as the spell Blur with a Caster Level equal to his number of levels in Knight of the Crown. A Knight does not deceive his opponents with illusions, this ability as a divine extraordinary affect that acts as deflection rather than illusory.

For every three levels in Knight of the Crown a character possess he can use this ability one more time per day, for a total of Twice at level 6, and three times at level 9. Upon reaching 9th level, a Knight of the Crown can create a greater affect by burning all three charges of this ability at once. A Knight of the Crown can create the affects of the spellDisplacement with a caster level equal the Knight of the Crown's class levels.


Smite Evil (Su):Once per day, a Knight of the rose may attempt to smite evil with one normal melee attack. She adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack roll and deals 1 extra point of damage per Knight of the Rose level. If the Knight accidentally smites a creature that is not evil, the smite has no effect, but the ability is still used up for that day.
At 3rd level, and at every two levels thereafter, the Knight may smite evil one additional time per day, to a maximum of five times per day at 10th level.

Turn or Rebuke Undead (Su):A Knight of the Sword of Lawful Good alignment has the power to affect undead creatures by channeling the power of his faith through his holy symbol
A Knight of the Sword may attempt to turn undead a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Charisma modifier. A cleric with 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (religion) gets a +2 bonus on turning checks against undead.

Faith Healing (Su): A Knight of the Rose of second level or higher can use healing spells to their maximum effect on creatures of the same alignment as the Knight (including the Knight himself). Any spell with the healing descriptor cast on such creatures works as if under the effects of a Maximize Spell feat (without using a higher-level spell slot).

This will bestow a caster level of 14 on this character, granting him access to 7th level spells when he reaches Knight of the Rose 10



And next, on to the Knight's of Neraka. I will be doing this in order of: Thorn, Lily, and then Skull.

PotatoNinja
2011-11-04, 09:30 PM
The Knights of Neraka
http://132.209.40.23/w4/campagne/images/WotC_Art_Galleries/Dragonlance_Campaign_Setting/Knights%20of%20Neraka.jpg


Knight of the Thorn
Hit Die d6

Requirements
Alignment: Lawful Evil
Must be proficient with all Martial Weapons
BAB: +2
Spellcasting: Able to cast Arcane spells of 2nd level.
Base Save Bonus: Will +2
Skills: Knowledge Arcana 5 ranks, Knowledge Religion 2 ranks, Spellcraft 5 Ranks
Feats: Any one metamagic feat.

Class Skills
The Knight of the Thorns Class skills (and they key abilities for each skill) are Concentration (COn), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (All skills taken individually), Profession (Int), Spellcraft (Int)

Skillpoints at each level: 4 + int modefier



{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fortitude Save|Reflex Save|Will Save|Special|[center] Spells Per Day

1st|+1|+0|+0|+2|Armored Spell Casting, Diviner, read omens| +1 Level of Existing Class
2nd|+2|+0|+0|+3|Profane Insight 1/day| +1 Level of Existing Class
3rd|+3|+1|+1|+3|Aura of Terror| +1 Level of Existing Class
4th|+4|+1|+1|+4|Weapon Touch| +1 Level of Existing Class
5th|+5|+1|+1|+4|Profane Insight 2/day| +1 Level of Existing Class
6th|+6|+2|+2|+5|Read Portents| +1 Level of Existing Class
7th|+7|+2|+2|+5|| +1 Level of Existing Class
8th|+8|+2|+2|+6|Profane Insight 3/day| +1 Level of Existing Class
9th|+9|+3|+3|+6|| +1 Level of Existing Class
10th|+10/+5|+3|+3|+7|Cosmic Understanding| +1 Level of Existing Class
[/table]

Class Features

Weapon/Armour proficiency: A knight of the Thorn gains no weapon or armour proficiency.

Spells per Day/Spells Known: At each level the Knight of the Thorn gains new spells per day (and spells known if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in an arcane spell casting class to which he belonged before adding the prestige class level. However he does not gain any other class features or benefits of his previous class. If the character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a Knight of the Thorn he must choose which one to raise every level he or she gains in Knight of the Thorn.

Diviner (Ex): A knight of the thorn places great emphasis on the arts of divination, believing that proper understanding of the past, present, and future is essential to achieving victory. A Knight of the Thorn cast all divination spells as if he were on level Higher.

The Knight of the Thorn gains specialization in divination and all of the benefits associated with specialization, but is not require to bar any schools. If the character is already a specialist in another school, he is not forced to give up his previous specialization.

Read Omens: A Knight of the Thorn is adept at consulting omens and seeing the meaning that is hidden in secret places. Once per day, as a spell like ability, the Knight of the Thorn may cast Augury as a second level spell. Additionally, it is added to their spell book or list of spells known regardless of class (This does not count against a sorcerer limit on spells known)

Armoured Spellcasting (Ex): A knight of the Thorn is better able than other casters to use arcane spells while armoured. AT First level a Knight of the Thorn reduces the arcane spell failure chance for any armour he wears by 2%. Every level there after, the Knight of the Thorn gains an additional 2% benefit to their arcane failure reduction.

Profane Insight (Ex): A Knight of the Thorn shares a special profane link with the most dark and vile reaches of their deities minds. This link allows them to pull forth sacred knowledge in a burst of insight that can help can aid them in their endeavors. At second level one per day, and one additional time per day every three class levels there after, a Knight of the Thorn may add his class levels to any one Attack, Save, Opposed ability roll, one skill check, or AC for one attack (even if flat footed)

Aura of Terror (Su): a 3rd level Knight of the Thorn is surrounded by a palpable aura of evil magic that makes other creatures - even other Knight of Neraka- uneasy and fearful Creature within 10 feet of the knight must make a successful Will save (DC 10 + Level of the knights class + Charisma Modifier) or become shaken.

Weapon Touch (SU): At 4th level, a Knight of the Thorn gains the ability to deliver touch spells by means of a melee attack, channeling spells through their weapon. Delivering a touch spell in this manner requires a normal melee attack, rather than a melee touch attack. If the attack is is successful, the knight deals normal weapon damage in addition to the affects of the spell. If the attack is unsuccessful, the spell is discharged and wasted(unless the spell allows several touch attacks per casting). As with a normal touch spell, the knight may cast the spell and make the attack in the same round, however doing so is a full round action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity and the knight can not take more than a 5 foot step before, during or after their attack and spell casting phase.

Read Portents: At 6th level a Knight of the Thorn add Divination to his list of spells known as a 4th level spell. Additionally, once per day he may use this spell as a spell like ability. This does not count against a sorcerers known spell limit.

Cosmic Understanding (Sp): At 10th level a Thorn Knight adds commune to his list of spell known as a 5th level spell. Additionally, he may use this ability once per day as a spell like ability. This does not count against a sorcerers limit of spell known.



PEACH :D

PotatoNinja
2011-11-07, 08:39 PM
The Knight of the Lily



Prerequisites

BAB +3
Fortitude save +
Knowledge Religion 1

Knight of the Lily

Alignment

A Knight of the Lily’s alignment must Lawful Evil.

Hit Die

D8.

Class Skills

The Knight of the Lily's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device(Int), Gather Information (Cha) Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), (Wis), Knowledge (Nobility) (Int), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Open Lock (Dex),Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Swim (Str) Use Rope (Dex).


Skill Points at Each Additional Level
6 + Int modifier.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency

A Knight of the Crown proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (including tower shields).



{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fortitude Save|Reflex Save|Will Save|[center]Special

1st|+1|+2|+2|+0| Obedience Pact, Sneak Attack +1d6, Trapfinding,
2nd|+2|+3|+3|+0|Demoralize, Never outnumbered 10’
3rd|+3|+3|+3|+1| Obedience Pact, Fight to the Death, Armored Mobility
4th|+4|+4|+4|+1|Sneak Attack +2d6, Unbreakable will +2, Never Outnumbered 20’
5th|+5|+4|+4|+1|Obediance Pact
6th|+6/+1|+5|+5|+2|Never Outnumbered 30’
7th|+7/+2|+5|+5|+2|Obediance Pact, Sneak Attack +3d6
8th|+8/+3|+6|+6|+2|Unbreakable will +4
9th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+3| Obedience Pact
10th|+10/+5|+7|+7|+3|Sneak Attack +4d6,
[/table][/QUOTE]
Class Features

ObediencePact: Knights of the Lily have an unwavering loyalty to their fellow Knights and to their patron Deity. Obedience breeds true power. Starting at first level, and every other level thereafter, a Knight of the Lily may pick one extraordinary Ability from the list below and add it to their class features. If the Knight ever become un lawful, or non evil, they lose all pacts.

Imunity to Poison (Ex): Pact The Knight of the Lily has devoted his soul and life to the cause of darkness and evil. While the Knight may walk in darkness and their hearts turn cold, they are obedient to their Evil Deictic patrons. The price paid in servitude does not come without benefits. In return for their service, Knights of the Lily are granted immunity from all worldly and magical poisons

Vexing Flanker: Pact A long time of servitude and obedience has made the Knight of the Lily very good at working with others. As a result, A Knight of the Lily receives a +4 bonus when flanking an enemy instead of the normal +2.

One Thought (Ex): Pact A Knight of the Lily has learned to attune his sense to those of his allies. A Knight of the lily can never be caught flat footed. Nor can they be flanked, unless by a character who is 4 levels higher than them. Additionally, once per day, a Knight of the Lily may bestow the ability upon an ally as an Immediate action. This action does not have to happen on the Knights Turn and can take place before an attack roll is declared.

Fortification (Ex): Pact A Knight of the Lily has devoted himself entirely to the cause of evil. This devotion reaps further benefits from his dark deity patrons. The gods of darkness have reshaped, moved, and twisted a Knight of the roses vital internal organs in order to protect them from would be assassins and betrayals. This grants a Knight of the Lily the benefit of the Enchantment Light Fortification, allowing them to negate Critical hits 25% of the time. This can be taken twice time, but not in consecutive order. The second time this pact is taken, it offers a 50% chance to ignore critical hits.

Penetrating Strike (Ex):Pact Obeying the every command of the dark lords without question, a Knight of the Lily can now strike opponents who are otherwise immune to sneak attack and deal sneak attack damage. Damage done this way is halved and rounded up. This obedience pact can be taken twice but not consecutively (for example, if taken at first level, this pact can not be taken again until 5th level). The second time it is taken it allows for full damage against foes normally immune to critical hits.

Sneak Attack

If a Knight of the Lily can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage.
The Knight of the Lily’s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the Knight of the Lily flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and it increases by 1d6 every two Knight of the Lily levels thereafter. Should the Knight of the Lily score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied.
Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.
With a sap (blackjack) or an unarmed strike, a Knight of the Lily can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual -4 penalty.
A Knight of the Lily can sneak attack only living creatures with discernible anatomies—undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to sneak attacks. The Knight of the Lily must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A Knight of the Lily cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach.

Trapfinding
Knight of the Lilys (and only Knight of the Lilys) can use the Search skill to locate traps when the task has a Difficulty Class higher than 20.
Finding a nonmagical trap has a DC of at least 20, or higher if it is well hidden. Finding a magic trap has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.
Knight of the Lilys (and only Knight of the Lilys) can use the Disable Device skill to disarm magic traps. A magic trap generally has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.
A Knight of the Lily who beats a trap’s DC by 10 or more with a Disable Device check can study a trap, figure out how it works, and bypass it (with her party) without disarming it.

Demoralize: Knight of the Lily are known for their ability to demoralize and intimidate their foes on the field of battle. A Knight of the lily may choose to use their Strength score in place of their Charisma Score when using Intimidate. Starting at second level a Knight of the lily receives a +2 profane bonus on Intimidate checks. Opponents who do not make a successful will save are shaken for a number of rounds equal to the Knights Class levels.
Never Outnumbered: When a Knight of the Lily uses intimidate to demoralize opponents, they can affect all enemies within 10 feet. This range increases by 10 feet every two levels thereafter until it reaches its maximum range of 30 feet at level 6.

Fight to the Death: A Knight of the Lily receive to benefits of the Feat Diehard regardless fo weather or not they meet the prequisits.

Armoured Mobility (Ex): Beginning at 4th level a Knight of the Lily treats heavy armour as medium armour for all purpose, including running speed. Additionally, armour check penalties for Heavy armour are reduced by 1. This reduction in armour check penalty stacks with those granted by masterwork and Mythral items

Unbreakable Will (Su): At 4th level a Knight of the Lily has such a devotion to their cause that they become immune to fear. In addition they receive a +2 moral bonus on all saves against compulsion affects, this bonus increases to +4 at level 8.

PotatoNinja
2011-11-07, 08:40 PM
Slipped in an accidental Double, reserved for Knight of the Skull