Wizard/beguiler multiclass and versatile spellcaster- how does it work?

[faceroll]

Let's say you've got 2 levels of wizard and 10 levels of beguiler, and the practiced spellcaster feat.

A level 2 wizard can add teleport to his spell book with a spellcraft check (no limits there as far as I can find). Can you use beguiler spell slots & versatile spellcaster to cast teleport? If you can, what caster level do you use?

Thanks in advance, playground.

[HunterOfJello]

page 310 of the PHB says


known spell: A spell that an arcane spellcaster has learned and
can prepare. For wizards, knowing a spell means having it in their
spellbooks. For sorcerers and bards, knowing a spell means having
selected it when acquiring new spells as a benefit of level
advancement.


Can the wizard have it in a spellbook? Yes. Can they prepare it? No.

Therefore, you can't do that.

~~~

Also, no sane DM should be letting you screw around with a feat that was obviously designed for spontaneous spellcasting only. It's annoying to see spontaneous casters finally get nice things only to see prepared casters try to screw around with it afterwards.

[JohnDaBarr]

Well the best way I can think of Wizard/Beguiler multiclassing is to go Wiz3/Beg2 and go Ultimate Magus 10 (Complete Mage) at level 15 you'll technically be level 13 Beg and level 14 Wiz and you'll have more spell slots than HP

[faceroll]

page 310 of the PHB says




Can the wizard have it in a spellbook? Yes. Can they prepare it? No.

Therefore, you can't do that.

~~~

Also, no sane DM should be letting you screw around with a feat that was obviously designed for spontaneous spellcasting only. It's annoying to see spontaneous casters finally get nice things only to see prepared casters try to screw around with it afterwards.



Well the best way I can think of Wizard/Beguiler multiclassing is to go Wiz3/Beg2 and go Ultimate Magus 10 (Complete Mage) at level 15 you'll technically be level 13 Beg and level 14 Wiz and you'll have more spell slots than HP

.........ok?
Anyone know how this works by the rules?

[JohnDaBarr]

what do you mean ''work by the rules''??

[Darth_Versity]

what do you mean ''work by the rules''??

He was asking about verstile spellcaster, not how to make a wizard/beguiler build.

[JohnDaBarr]

OP got the answer, by the rules he can't do that. Im was simply offering him a way who to get what he wants.

[Keld Denar]

By RAW, it works exactly how you described it. You know Teleport, you have it in your spellbook. You can use Beguiler slots to cast it.

As far as CL...it doesn't really say. I'd wager it uses your Beguiler CL, given that its from a Beguiler slot even though its off someone else's list.

[gkathellar]

By RAW, it works exactly how you described it. You know Teleport, you have it in your spellbook. You can use Beguiler slots to cast it.

As far as CL...it doesn't really say. I'd wager it uses your Beguiler CL, given that its from a Beguiler slot even though its off someone else's list.

I think you're right about the RAW. It's an incredibly cheap trick, but it works. Nice work spotting that, faceroll. :smallsmile:

As for CL, you could rule it either way, but because a single level of Sublime Chord allows you to set all arcane CL to levels in (Chosen Arcane Casting Class level) + (SC level), you can remove the question entirely with relative ease.

EDIT: I suppose the one questionable part is whether you really "know" spells in your spellbook. Certainly, though, you could use it to gain access to Beguiler/Dread Necromancer/Warmage spells with another class's spontaneous slots, since you automatically know all the spells on their spell lists.

EDIT2: Or ... Master Spellthief, I guess? That would also do it. Much more easily, actually.

[Cruiser1]

page 310 of the PHB says:
known spell: A spell that an arcane spellcaster has learned and
can prepare. For wizards, knowing a spell means having it in their
spellbooks. For sorcerers and bards, knowing a spell means having
selected it when acquiring new spells as a benefit of level
advancement.
It looks like by RAW, Wizards know any spell in their spellbook (even if they can't prepare it). Although for other arcane classes, they do have to have learned it and must also be able to prepare it. The extra sentence for Wizard specifically says knowing a spell just means having it in their spellbook (specific text overrides general text). Similarly, Sorcerers know spells they have selected when levelling up, which also overrides the general "has learned and can prepare" clause, since sponteneous casters of course don't prepare spells. Therefore the exploit works! :smallbiggrin:

Of course, since the only arcane classes in the PHB are Wizard, Sorcerer, and Bard, the RAI is clearly that Wizards only know spells in their spellbooks that they're also high enough level to prepare. Otherwise there's no reason to include the first sentence mentioning preparation, since technically all classes have their own more specific clauses that override it. Therefore, no sane DM should allow it, especially since I'm sure the RAI for Versatile Spellcaster is to use spell slots from the same casting class to cast another spell from that same class. :smallyuk: