[3.5] do kolbolds make good skill monkeys?

[kulosle]

so i recently just learned of all cheese behind kobolds and i love it. i don't agree with all of it (epic feats?) but i do think they are very cool and have high customization, which is always my favorite part.

lately i've been trying to find a way to change my skill monkey build. i normally do primordial half giant factotum 3 marshal 1 and then bard the rest of the way, sometime going into exemplar or dipping into paladin. but the kobolds seem to present an opportunity to break up the monotony. +3 to int and cha with 0la. i don't know how useful the spellcasting increases would be though. so the question is do kobolds make better skill monkeys?

[Golden Ladybug]

Kobolds make good everythings.

With Dragonwrought, they really kick into overdrive any role involving mental stats, and being the skill monkey is no exception. Along with that, their Small Size, Dex Bonus and Natural armor gives them an automatic +3 to your AC, which is especially helpful for a rogueish class that can't wear the bigger armors or shore up their weakness with spells.

But overall, the Race is only a tertiary influence on what you character can do. Some races are better at doing things than others, but that doesn't stop Half-Orcs from being wizards, or Dwarves from being Rogues.

[Flickerdart]

Kobolds are reptilian, and make poor monkeys of any sort. :smalltongue:

[kulosle]

well here's what i've considered. it makes playing a divine bard possible although i don't know if thats of any use. i just like divine bards. but what i truly desire more than anything in dnd is a character that can respectfully call itself a skill character. that is to say that they have invested more in skills than saying i took a 3 level dip in factotum and have jack of all trades able learner and nymphs kiss. and then have this character not suck. technically a more skill based character would be 3 factotum 9 marshal (cha to every skill) 8 bard, but giving up the bards spells makes the character really hard to play. can kobold fix this?

[MesiDoomstalker]

I'd like to say I'm proud that my thread about Koblod-y Cheese inspired this thread. But of course I could be wrong. But I'd like to think I'm right! :smallbiggrin:

[kulosle]

I'd like to say I'm proud that my thread about Koblod-y Cheese inspired this thread. But of course I could be wrong. But I'd like to think I'm right! :smallbiggrin:

oh no you are correct. i read it and couldn't get kobolds of the brain so i tried to turn it into a skill monkey like i do everything. thanks for the inspiration.

also i was wondering if there was something out there somewhere that gave a bonus to skill checks by giving up a use of you class feature (bardic music/smite/wildshap etc) or by expending spells. that would be great. i doubt it though since i haven't found it yet. but i don't have all the 3.5 resources in the world. i know i don't have any of the magazines.

[MesiDoomstalker]

oh no you are correct. i read it and couldn't get kobolds of the brain so i tried to turn it into a skill monkey like i do everything. thanks for the inspiration.

also i was wondering if there was something out there somewhere that gave a bonus to skill checks by giving up a use of you class feature (bardic music/smite/wildshap etc) or by expending spells. that would be great. i doubt it though since i haven't found it yet. but i don't have all the 3.5 resources in the world. i know i don't have any of the magazines.

Well, in true Koblod cheese, you want to use a Desert Kobold (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#desertKobolds) as the base since they lack a Con penalty. They have a Wis penalty which stinks for Divine Bard :smallannoyed:

Bardic Knack in PHII trades Bardic Knowledge so that you have 1/2 your Bard level in "virtual" ranks in all skills. Caveat: only in skills you can use, such as those that can be done untrained or trained if you have at least 1 rank, can get this and its either your real ranks or the virtual not both.

Example: Barry the 10th level Bard has Bardic Knack. He has 7 Ranks in K: Arcana, 5 ranks in K: Religion, 1 rank in K: The Planes, 0 ranks in K: Local, and 0 ranks in Jump. Due to Bardic Knack, he has 5 ranks, effectivly, in K: Religion and Jump as he is trained in K: Religion and Jump can be done untrained. His ranks in K: Arcana, Religion, and The Planes do not change as his real ranks are greater than or equal to his virtual and K: The Planes is 'trained only' he is untrained as he does not have an actual rank.

There is also Inspire Competence but you'd have to have an ally or cohort do it. You can help others become skillful, such as in physical challenges, but not yourself.

[kulosle]

yeah i'm aware of the bardic knack trick and we house rule that jack of all trades works for it. because we're pretty sure that is RAI. kobold still ends up with a +1 to wis. another thing about taking marshal is that it makes it so the entire party is good at skills and then i'm just less impressive, that and marshals are lame

[Glimbur]

but what i truly desire more than anything in dnd is a character that can respectfully call itself a skill character. that is to say that they have invested more in skills than saying i took a 3 level dip in factotum and have jack of all trades able learner and nymphs kiss. and then have this character not suck.

Beguiler from PHB II is good at skills. They have a class list that looks like the rogue with a dash of wizard, 6+ skill points, and even more reason to have Int than a rogue because they are also Int based spellcasters. You could argue that they are a spellcaster and therefore not a skill monkey, but that's semantics.

[JaronK]

so i recently just learned of all cheese behind kobolds and i love it. i don't agree with all of it (epic feats?) but i do think they are very cool and have high customization, which is always my favorite part.

All dragons get epic feats at the right age category. But it's probably best if you just forget about that...


lately i've been trying to find a way to change my skill monkey build. i normally do primordial half giant factotum 3 marshal 1 and then bard the rest of the way, sometime going into exemplar or dipping into paladin. but the kobolds seem to present an opportunity to break up the monotony. +3 to int and cha with 0la. i don't know how useful the spellcasting increases would be though. so the question is do kobolds make better skill monkeys?

Well, the Venerable thing for +3 to all mental stats obviously helps. And small size is good too. But it does depend on what you're looking for, and what "Kobold Cheese" you're going to allow... that will effect whether Kobolds are actually good for this. The stats are certainly helpful but the lost feat actually does hurt. Certainly for anything casting related the stats help a lot. Why not play with Beguiler/PrC Bard? That gives both skills and magic. And if you allow Sovereign Archetypes, you could even throw lots more spells on the spell list... but that might be too casty heavy for what you want anyway.

JaronK

[Tokuhara]

Well, in true Koblod cheese, you want to use a Desert Kobold (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#desertKobolds) as the base since they lack a Con penalty. They have a Wis penalty which stinks for Divine Bard :smallannoyed:

Bardic Knack in PHII trades Bardic Knowledge so that you have 1/2 your Bard level in "virtual" ranks in all skills. Caveat: only in skills you can use, such as those that can be done untrained or trained if you have at least 1 rank, can get this and its either your real ranks or the virtual not both.

Example: Barry the 10th level Bard has Bardic Knack. He has 7 Ranks in K: Arcana, 5 ranks in K: Religion, 1 rank in K: The Planes, 0 ranks in K: Local, and 0 ranks in Jump. Due to Bardic Knack, he has 5 ranks, effectivly, in K: Religion and Jump as he is trained in K: Religion and Jump can be done untrained. His ranks in K: Arcana, Religion, and The Planes do not change as his real ranks are greater than or equal to his virtual and K: The Planes is 'trained only' he is untrained as he does not have an actual rank.

There is also Inspire Competence but you'd have to have an ally or cohort do it. You can help others become skillful, such as in physical challenges, but not yourself.

To reduce MAD, I suggest the Dynamic Priest feat from Legends of the Twins: Dragonlance. Hello again, Charisma to Spellcasting!

[kulosle]

so i like all the cheese that isn't the epic feats. there was a bit about turning sorcerer levels into wizard levels and then still taking the combat variants of both.

so this is kinda pushing into homebrew a little but if there was a feat that gave a bonus to skills if you sacrificed a spell what would that look like. a bonus based off spell level (x1 or x2) to one/all/next skill roll made within a certain amount of time also based on spell level?

and a beguiler with prestigious bard sounds awesome. but i would probably take the 3 levels in factotum and an odd number of levels in marshal for cha to skill checks.

[Tokuhara]

so i like all the cheese that isn't the epic feats. there was a bit about turning sorcerer levels into wizard levels and then still taking the combat variants of both.

so this is kinda pushing into homebrew a little but if there was a feat that gave a bonus to skills if you sacrificed a spell what would that look like. a bonus based off spell level (x1 or x2) to one/all/next skill roll made within a certain amount of time also based on spell level?

and a beguiler with prestigious bard sounds awesome. but i would probably take the 3 levels in factotum and an odd number of levels in marshal for cha to skill checks.

Factotum 1/Beguiler 5/Virtuoso 1/Prestige Bard 1/Seeker of the Song 10/Archmage 2

This makes you a better Bard than Bard, Skillmonkey than Rogue, and Spellcaster than Sorcerer*

*: Minus your rather short list, you can do more than Sorcerer can in 99% of all situations