Dreadfleet

[Ninjaman]

Well i though this forum needed it. But i am not sure about how many people play dreadfleet, so it might have to be closed again.
This thread should be for anything dreadfleet related: tactics, models, fluff you name it.

In case any of you wondered ''what is dreadfleet?'' dreadfleet is this. (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1350015a)

[hamishspence]

The thread title needs a spelling correction from Dreafleet to Dreadfleet.

I find it interesting- the rules are similar to Battlefleet Gothic- but a different turn order. And instead of doing damage, shooting forces the target to draw damage cards which have variable effects.

I like the notion of using it as a template on which to create fleet lists for the various races.

Like "War Barque" for the battleship for a Tomb King fleet- and a bunch of Galleys as small, attack cruisers.

or "Dragonship" for the Elves, and "Hawkships/Eagleships" as cruisers.

Fitting the Skaven ship in is a bit trickier- maybe, after the incidents in the Dreadfleet novel, Clan Moulder was inspired to capture sea leviathans, which are modified in a similar way to the Scabrus, only requiring less necromancy.

[Leon]

The fact that that its a Tacky reinvention of what could have been done much better other than a money grab on the basis of a Old but good game that the company has long abandoned.

[hamishspence]

It seems like an interesting place for things to grow from though.

Just as Space Fleet led to Battlefleet Gothic, maybe, with a bit of work, Man-Of-War could lead to Improved Dreadfleet?

As it currently stands, it's pretty basic, but I like the models.

[Ninjaman]

Edited.

And a rule question: Do yuo take your action phase move, broadside, boarding or as you like?

[hamishspence]

It's in order. What makes it different from games like BFG is that each side alternates activating one ship (that is, one ship moves, shoots, boards if possible, and so on) and then the other side does the whole thing with one ship.

[Ninjaman]

It's in order. What makes it different from games like BFG is that each side alternates activating one ship (that is, one ship moves, shoots, boards if possible, and so on) and then the other side does the whole thing with one ship.

I think you missunderstood me, do you have to first move then broadside and then boarding with 1 ship in that order? Or can you for instance broadside then move?

And what is BFG?

[hamishspence]

BFG- Battlefleet Gothic, in this case.

And yes- it's in order- you have to move before you can broadside, you can't broadside after you've initiated boarding, etc.

[Ninjaman]

So if i use hard-a-port (or starbord) i will have to turn before my movement?

[hamishspence]

You don't have to- since that Order (Orders phase comes before anything else) specifies that the ship can make use of it at any point in the Movement phase- even before it actually moves.

So- you could choose to Hard A Port- then carry out the movement phase as normal.

Or you could choose to resolve the Hard A Port order at any point in the move.

But you do have to, at the beginning of the turn, specify that particular Order.

[Ninjaman]

You don't have to- since that Order (Orders phase comes before anything else) specifies that the ship can make use of it at any point in the Movement phase- even before it actually moves.

So- you could choose to Hard A Port- then carry out the movement phase as normal.

Or you could choose to resolve the Hard A Port order at any point in the move.

But you do have to, at the beginning of the turn, specify that particular Order.

Okay. Thanks.

[Closet_Skeleton]

It's in order. What makes it different from games like BFG is that each side alternates activating one ship (that is, one ship moves, shoots, boards if possible, and so on) and then the other side does the whole thing with one ship.

So like Uncharted Seas. Which is why I don't see the need to buy dreadfleet because I haven't heard anyone tell me that its the better game and I enjoyed Uncharted Seas.

[Ninjaman]

So like Uncharted Seas. Which is why I don't see the need to buy dreadfleet because I haven't heard anyone tell me that its the better game and I enjoyed Uncharted Seas.

I just googled "uncharted seas". From the look of it I guess that dreadfleet is fewer, more unique ships. And I guess that in uncharted seas you need to stick with one race, and won't get all the specials. As for the ruleset i bet they are very different.

[hamishspence]

Uncharted Seas is 1/600 scale though- Dreadfleet appears closest to 1/1200 scale.

As it currently stands, all the dreadfleet ships are unique, and there are no rules (as yet) for "basic" ships (apart from the auxiliaries).

However, the basic ruleset seems pretty functional (though, outside of the Galleon's Graveyard, I'd probably use less Fate cards)- and I could easily see people homebrewing rules for smaller ships.

(Or, people with Man O' War sets, creating rules for the Dreadfleet ships to be used in Man O' War games).

[Ninjaman]

As it currently stands, all the dreadfleet ships are unique, and there are no rules (as yet) for "basic" ships (apart from the auxiliaries).

However, the basic ruleset seems pretty functional (though, outside of the Galleon's Graveyard, I'd probably use less Fate cards)- and I could easily see people homebrewing rules for smaller ships.

Problem is that these huge ships are 3-3-3, so 2-2-2 would still be really big, and it would be boring with 1-1-1 ships. Also it would be hard to make difference on the ships.

[hamishspence]

True. 2-2-2s would probably be equivalent to Napoleonic battleships- and high-rated ones at that - 4th to 2nd rate or so.

3-3-3s would be first rates, 100+ gun ships.

4s (the Heldenhammer has a hull value of 4) would be bigger than any other ship around.

One solution to the granularity issue, is to double or triple everything- instead of 3-3-3, a first rate would become 9-9-9.

[Ninjaman]

True. 2-2-2s would probably be equivalent to Napoleonic battleships- and high-rated ones at that - 4th to 2nd rate or so.

3-3-3s would be first rates, 100+ gun ships.

4s (the Heldenhammer has a hull value of 4) would be bigger than any other ship around.

One solution to the granularity issue, is to double or triple everything- instead of 3-3-3, a first rate would become 9-9-9.

3-3-3 wouldn't be 100+ since Heldenhammer have 6 broadside and 180 cannons.

Thought of multiplying, but that might bring some problems with special dammage.

[hamishspence]

It's more that the Swordfish is a 3-3-3, and it's mentioned in, I think, the online design article, to be a hundred-gun ship.

Mind you, the rulebook describes the Flaming Scimitar as a hundred gun ship and it's only got a broadside value of 2.

The Heldenhammer's 180 guns produce a broadside value of 6- though that might be at least partly due to their large size- which might make them three times as effective as the Scimitar's 100.

[Ninjaman]

It's more that the Swordfish is a 3-3-3, and it's mentioned in, I think, the online design article, to be a hundred-gun ship.

Mind you, the rulebook describes the Flaming Scimitar as a hundred gun ship and it's only got a broadside value of 2.

The Heldenhammer's 180 guns produce a broadside value of 6- though that might be at least partly due to their large size- which might make them three times as effective as the Scimitar's 100.

Could be. But the multiplying still wouldn't be easy.

[banjo1985]

The fact that that its a Tacky reinvention of what could have been done much better other than a money grab on the basis of a Old but good game that the company has long abandoned.

They will never bring Man 'o' War out again though, purely because the way GW work they can't put a fourth core game in their shops. A specialist game supported through mail order maybe, but that would be it. Can't have Man 'o' war stopping people spending money on cash-cows like 40k now can we? http://i.imgur.com/EAqtS.png

Having said that, I did pick the game up at a decent discount, mainly because I quite like a few of the ships and the terrain also works for the aforementioned Uncartered Seas (Shroud Mages FTW!). The basic mechanics are familiar and solid enough, but it's all so RANDOM. So many of the fate cards can just nerf you if you're unlucky enough to draw them, and the damage card mechanic means you can suffer a devastating blast and still float around firing at full efficiency, or hit a ship with a powderpuff and watch it draw three hull damage in a row and explode. The actual amount of control the player has over who wins, and therefore the amount of skill they can apply, is pretty low.

It's entertaining enough for an occasional play, but it's not a patch on Bloodbowl.

[Ninjaman]

The basic mechanics are familiar and solid enough, but it's all so RANDOM. So many of the fate cards can just nerf you if you're unlucky enough to draw them, and the damage card mechanic means you can suffer a devastating blast and still float around firing at full efficiency, or hit a ship with a powderpuff and watch it draw three hull damage in a row and explode. The actual amount of control the player has over who wins, and therefore the amount of skill they can apply, is pretty low.

Or is that what makes it so strategic, since you have to play like you could lose anyone of your ships any seconds.
I have to agree with you it is random, but it isn't turnament, it is a friendly game. Everybody can win through luck (like munchkin).

[hamishspence]

I've been looking at Dystopian Wars's models- and some of their ironclads could pass for Dwarf ironclads maybe.

Their airship could make a passable Spirit of Grungni (the giant airship in the Gotrek & Felix novels Daemonslayer, Dragonslayer, and Beastslayer.)

[hamishspence]

I've noticed that GW HQ in Nottingham has Man O'War models on display in the miniatures gallery. They look quite good considering how much time has passed since they were done.

[Ninjaman]

I've noticed that GW HQ in Nottingham has Man O'War models on display in the miniatures gallery. They look quite good considering how much time has passed since they were done.

Do you have pictures?

[hamishspence]

I didn't take my camera on the last visit.

[Ninjaman]

I didn't take my camera on the last visit.

Last? I have only been there once. Do yuo live in England?

[hamishspence]

Yup- within bus driving distance. I've gone today- taken a few pics- they might be a bit big for the site though- may need to be emailed or PMed rather than posted.

[Ninjaman]

Yup- within bus driving distance. I've gone today- taken a few pics- they might be a bit big for the site though- may need to be emailed or PMed rather than posted.

I would love to.

[hamishspence]

For those who want extremely high detail ship minis to scale (roughly, I estimate) with Dreadfleet or Man O' War, Langton Miniatures might work (they're expensive though):

http://www.rodlangton.com/

[Ninjaman]

For those who want extremely high detail ship minis to scale (roughly, I estimate) with Dreadfleet or Man O' War, Langton Miniatures might work (they're expensive though):

http://www.rodlangton.com/

Cool. Not going to buy them but cool.

[Philistine]

Or is that what makes it so strategic, since you have to play like you could lose anyone of your ships any seconds.
I have to agree with you it is random, but it isn't turnament, it is a friendly game. Everybody can win through luck (like munchkin).

Sorry, but I have to ask: is it your opinion that Risk is more strategic than chess, then? After all, the randomness of the dice means that you always have to play as if your 70-army juggernaut stack could be cut to pieces by a single garrison troop at any time. If in your opinion Risk is not more strategic than chess, why not? And what, if anything, does that say about the relationship between strategy and randomness?

[Ninjaman]

Sorry, but I have to ask: is it your opinion that Risk is more strategic than chess, then? After all, the randomness of the dice means that you always have to play as if your 70-army juggernaut stack could be cut to pieces by a single garrison troop at any time. If in your opinion Risk is not more strategic than chess, why not? And what, if anything, does that say about the relationship between strategy and randomness?

I am not saying that Risk is more strategic than chess, i am just saying that Risk is more strategic than many people might think.

[hamishspence]

for other 1:1200 ships:

Cheaper: Navwar:
http://navwar.co.uk/nav/default.asp

Expensive (comparable to Langton)- GHQ:
http://www.ghqmodels.com/store/military-models-napoleonic-micronauts.html

Falling somewhere between the two:

Skytrex:
http://www.skytrex.com/377/triton-11200th/

Spanish Main
http://www.veltd.net/spanishm.htm

[Ninjaman]

for other 1:1200 ships:

Cheaper: Navwar:
http://navwar.co.uk/nav/default.asp

Expensive (comparable to Langton)- GHQ:
http://www.ghqmodels.com/store/military-models-napoleonic-micronauts.html

Falling somewhere between the two:

Skytrex:
http://www.skytrex.com/377/triton-11200th/

Spanish Main
http://www.veltd.net/spanishm.htm

Nice, but i couldn't find any pictures on the second website.

[hamishspence]

Click on the individual ship descriptions here:

http://www.ghqmodels.com/store/napoleonic-micronauts-battle-sails.html

a few of them are illustrated- the Victory in particular:

http://www.ghqmodels.com/store/211.html

[hamishspence]

I've bee looking at some of the Man O' War images here:

http://boardgamegeek.com/images/boardgame/2516/man-o-war

and they vary a lot. Some look rather good to me- not too out of place with Dreadfleet models.

[Ninjaman]

I've bee looking at some of the Man O' War images here:

http://boardgamegeek.com/images/boardgame/2516/man-o-war

and they vary a lot. Some look rather good to me- not too out of place with Dreadfleet models.

Yes a lot of them are quite nice, but man those seamonsters are ugly.

[hamishspence]

Indeed- would probably make more sense to convert better looking existing models into MOW ones (if the game is MOW with Dreadfleet stuff added).