VoP Crusader

[Kaeso]

Before you all start throwing bricks DM handbooks in my general direction: yes, I know that VoP is weaksauce beyond level 10 or so, but I want to build a VoP Crusader anyway. One of these days I want to play a redeemed criminal turned paladin who has taken the concept of virtue TO THE MAX by depriving himself of all material belongings, save for his sword. I think it would fit a Crusader from a crunch perspective as well because one of their abilities makes their hits stronger the more damage they take, and armor only prevents this damage from being taken.

However, I know VoP has some weaknesses. It can't make your weapon stronger in the same way magical upgrades do, but the strikes a Crusader has at his disposal largely compensates for that. The lack of armor is mostly offset by AC bonusses received from VoP itself (yes, it's lower than what you'd get with magical armor, but a crusader is supposed to be taking blows rather than blocking them). The only problem is a lack of flight, is there a reason to offset it? The only thing that comes to mind is nicely ask if my DM allows me to take devotion feats instead of vow feats for my free VoP feats (they're both somewhat divine in nature anyway) and then take animal devotion four or so times, allowing me to take flight 4 times a day (or use a different power if flight isn't required). If you were a DM, would you tolerate that or would it be too overpowered?

Also, some general advice on a VoP crusader (which strikes/stances to take, which feats, etc.) would be nice.

[JaronK]

You could always go with natural flight (Raptorian, for example). Also, consider doing a Crusader/Cleric/Ruby Knight Vindicator... casting REALLY helps deal with the VoP utility issues.

Another thing: consider taking VoP later in your build. You'll lose some bonus feats (but most of those stink anyway), and can instead get some grafts and other implanted things before the vow. Obviously your Paladin-esc character won't have the feathered wings demonic graft (10k for flight, whee) but maybe you can find something else that works.

JaronK

[Rubik]

The biggest problem with VoP characters is that they're insanely selfish (and I mean, 'you have to be insane to go for that, in character'). "Oh, I'm saving the world, so instead of doing everything I can to make sure I'm able to do my job, I'll eschew half my potential power for my own spiritual gain. Who cares if the party fighter needs that +5 bonus to saves, if that beggar needs a cloak? If the fighter gets Dominated and kills the rest of the party, I can say I allowed it for a good cause."

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

You wouldn't get a sword, you can only have simple weapons so probably a heavy mace or morningstar and a few javelins. You can't even use a shield with VoP, even though a heavy wooden shield would be worth less than your weapon, so there goes most of your protecting-others-maneuvers.

Even with armor, you'll probably be taking enough damage every round to fill up your delayed damage pool and have the maximum Furious Counterstrike bonus. Dumping AC with no greater means of healing or other defenses will only invite an overwhelming amount of damage every round, which will lead to a dead character. In any case, your best option is the Wrathful Healing weapon property from Enemies and Allies, which causes you to be healed for half of every point of damage the weapon deals, which would include extra damage from strikes and Power Attack. With VoP this isn't even an option, so a masochist character should not even be a consideration.

I'd probably dip two levels of (Unarmed) Swordsage, for the AC bonus and the Unarmed Strike plus some decent maneuvers that a Crusader wouldn't get. You should also consider making your character a Dragonborn of Bahamut, to get wings for a mundane fly speed. Water Orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfWater) is a superb race to combine with Dragonborn, and would fit your redeemed criminal background.

The idea of voluntary poverty, giving up things you wouldn't have needed anyway in order to help the needy, doesn't really make much sense for a gear-dependent game. If VoP would have instead forced the player to give up at least half of his monetary gain, granting the same bonuses to make most gear redundant anyway, then it would make a lot more sense both mechanically and in-character, as Rubik has pointed out. I see VoP as equivalent to an individual selling his boat/bus/etc. in order to aid people in fleeing from some disaster, when keeping that item would have enabled him to better serve them both immediately and in the long run. It's absolutely nonsensical that a character give up his sword and bow and armor so that he can better defend the weak from monsters.

[Rubik]

I don't want to crap on your idea, Kaeso, but it only works (concept-wise) rarely. Low wealth game? Sure! Playing a druid/psion/totemist? Sure!

Otherwise? Not quite so much.

[navar100]

As a crusader you want to get hit, so not having a very high AC is good. Still, I second two level dip into swordsage. The AC helps, you can pick up some nice maneuvers such as the Diamond Mind saving throws, and it fixes your stance progression imbalance. You don't need to take both levels early. Just do it before you reach 8th level in crusader. Allow for a 3rd level swordsage maneuver. The Mountain Hammer line takes care of DR issues, plus Foe Hammer.

As for flight, you are allowed to benefit from spells. If absolutely necessary, the wizard casts Fly on you. That's called teamwork. That's a good thing. You more than make up for it using White Raven Tactics on the wizard allowing him to cast two spells in a round. You don't have to do everything by yourself.