Cleric build advice wanted

[Garwain]

Hey guys, I'm currently playing a human LG cleric of St-Cuthbert:

feats: quicken divine metamagic, skill focus knowledge religion
nice stats: 18wis, 17cha, 15str, 14con, 13dex, 12 int (so I'm not worried for MAD)
domains: str + protection devotion

I'm lined up to take Divine Oracle at 6 because that's what my character does. He constantly judges events to be signs of his god. So that PrC is thematically bound. I'm planning to pick up extra turning feat at lvl 6 to fuel a second quicken DMM, but that's not yet decided.

The question is what to do after lvl 6. 1, 2, 6 or 10 levels of Divine Oracle? My Dex and Refl save are poor, so IMO there is little benefit from advancing to lvls 2 or 6 (Prescient Sense/improved uncanny dodge).
Then what PrC? I'd like to stay (almost) full casting.

I'm most familiar with PHB(2) and Complete series.

[Vowtz]

I would get 4 levels of divine oracle for uncanny dodge, even with a poor dex you still get to deny sneak attacks from surprise rounds and invisible foes.

[hex0]

There is HUGE advantage in getting the second level of Divine Oracle. 'Super Evasion' is amazing, even if your Reflex save is not.

Since you are LG, I would recommend Prestige Paladin as well. That will boost your saves (since you have decent CHA) and the Paladin spells you get are lower level than the Cleric versions to save you some spell resources.

Cleric 5/Divine Oracle 2/Prestige Paladin 3/Contemplative 1/Divine Oracle 8 etc.

[Garwain]

I like the proposed Cleric 5/Divine Oracle 2/Prestige Paladin 3/Contemplative 1/Divine Oracle 8

But the 3 lvls of Prestige Paladin require the investment of:
- mounted combat feat
- Knowledge (nobility and royalty) 2 ranks cross class
- Ride 4 ranks cross class
- 1 spellcasting level

And I gain: CHA to saves (which is great, I admit) and a mount.

So that's a bit of a steep investment, no? No better alternative for those 3 levels?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If starting out higher than 1st level, say you visited the Frog God's Fane detailed in Complete Scoundrel and you can get Skill Focus: Kn: Religion for 2,000 gp without spending a feat on it.

Also, you have to take Quicken Spell before you can get Divine Metamagic: Quicken. Source: (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a)

Page 80: Divine Metamagic feat
The boldface text needs to be added to the Benefit
paragraph of the feat description:
When you take this feat, choose a metamagic feat that
you have. This feat applies only to that metamagic feat.
As a free action, you can take the energy from turning
or rebuking undead and use it to apply a metamagic feat
to divine spells that you know. . . .

[Mooncrow]

I like the proposed Cleric 5/Divine Oracle 2/Prestige Paladin 3/Contemplative 1/Divine Oracle 8

But the 3 lvls of Prestige Paladin require the investment of:
- mounted combat feat
- Knowledge (nobility and royalty) 2 ranks cross class
- Ride 4 ranks cross class
- 1 spellcasting level

And I gain: CHA to saves (which is great, I admit) and a mount.

So that's a bit of a steep investment, no? No better alternative for those 3 levels?

And the addition of all paladin spells to your spell list. (and then take Battle BlessingCC to cast them as swift actions.)

Or you could go the dweomerkeeper route for more spontaneous spell casting, SLAs and reduced metamagic cost.

[Garwain]

Just a question. If I take Battle Blessing, can I cast Cure spells spontaniously as a Paladin spell and thus a swift action?

And a swift paladin spell that is 1 level lower for Clerics out of the cleric slot? Or is the spell only subject to Battle Blessing if it comes out the paladin level slot.

[Feytalist]

Battle Blessing explicitly only works for paladin casting.

And spontaneous healing has been mentioned in various PrC's and such to only be possible from cleric casting, and only from a cleric base. Unless you take the Spontaneous Healer feat (I think that's what it is called).

I can't think of any way that those two can be combined, but I might be wrong.

[Wings of Peace]

Are there any good domains for boosting saves? If you don't mind being unpopular with the cool priests you could take Heretic of the Faith found in Power of Faerun.

[Curmudgeon]

Are there any good domains for boosting saves?
The Pride domain (Spell Compendium, pages 278-279) grants a reroll on any 1 on a saving throw, once per die rolled. That's in the portfolios of Wee Jas and Memnor.

[Gullintanni]

I like the proposed Cleric 5/Divine Oracle 2/Prestige Paladin 3/Contemplative 1/Divine Oracle 8

But the 3 lvls of Prestige Paladin require the investment of:
- mounted combat feat
- Knowledge (nobility and royalty) 2 ranks cross class
- Ride 4 ranks cross class
- 1 spellcasting level

And I gain: CHA to saves (which is great, I admit) and a mount.

So that's a bit of a steep investment, no? No better alternative for those 3 levels?

I'm going to tip my hat for Prestige Paladin/Battle Blessing again.

It's awesome. If you want to shut down casters, hop into Church Inquisitor, which is great for Cuthbert and grants you the Inquisition Domain. Then pick up the Divine Defiance feat from FCII to trade Turn Undead uses for Swift Action counterspells. Prepare Dispel Magic (or pick it up as a Domain spell if you can and take the Spontaneous Domain Casting ACF from PHBII I think and never worry about incoming spells ever again) and counter away.

Easy to fit with your character's fluff. The Oracle side sees truth, the Inquisitor side enforces it. Drop the third level of Prestige Paladin if you want to incorporate the Inquisitor. One level for the Domain is enough.

[Little Brother]

You might want some levels in Sovereign Speaker. Super fun, more domains.

[Barlen]

If you have MIC available you can add 5 to your reflex save for 8k gold (greater agility property on your main armor). Its a straight buy and doesn't add to the "+" level of the armor. That would help make the evasion from DO work better.

[Gullintanni]

If you have MIC available you can add 5 to your reflex save for 8k gold (greater agility property on your main armor). Its a straight buy and doesn't add to the "+" level of the armor. That would help make the evasion from DO work better.

Is there one of those for Will saves? Never Mind. Cloak of Resistance is just better.

Also...this is a synergy ability. I believe its cost may build on the cost of the previous enhancements, so you'd have to pay for Agility, Improved Agility and Greater Agility separately.

Also note that this is a Resistance bonus so it won't stack with a Cloak of Resistance...which is only 25k anyway, so you're probably not well served by this enhancement unless your cloak spot is filled. Grr...

[Garwain]

Thanks guys, that's some great advice.

Easy to fit with your character's fluff. The Oracle side sees truth, the Inquisitor side enforces it. Drop the third level of Prestige Paladin if you want to incorporate the Inquisitor. One level for the Domain is enough.
I like the fluff here as well. Excellent idea!

What I have distilled:
Cleric 5/Divine Oracle 2/Prestige Paladin 2/Church Inquisitor 1/Contemplative 1/Divine Oracle 8/X 1

Raising Refl save with spells or items. And taking Combat Blessing for the Paladin spells. :smallsmile: I realize now that even when spells are 1 level higher on the paladin list, being able to cast them quicker is like dirt cheep metamagic.

Since I will have only invested max ranks in Knowledge (Religion) and 4 ranks in Knowledge(Arcana)(to enter Inquisition), would it be wise to trade away the Inquisition domain for Knowledge devotion?

On a side note: Why am I maxing the spellcraft skill? After 3 levels I never got to use it. DM rulings are that potion content can be guessed after sipping a drop, so currently I feel my much needed skill points are wasted here...

[Gullintanni]

Since I will have only invested max ranks in Knowledge (Religion) and 4 ranks in Knowledge(Arcana)(to enter Inquisition), would it be wise to trade away the Inquisition domain for Knowledge devotion?

The Inquisition domain power grants +4 to dispel checks, that is not capped by the normal caster level limit in the spell. If you're Counterspelling using Divine Defiance and Dispel Magic for Swift Action counterspells, then the Inquisition domain is THE reason to take Church Inquisitor. Keep the domain.

Otherwise, you probably don't need Church Inquisitor in the build at all. +4 to Dispel Checks is nothing to sneeze on its own mind you, but it synergizes so well with counterspelling. Although the fluff is still wicked cool :smalltongue: