[PF] Snakes Up My Sleeve.

[Drelua]

I had an idea a while ago to make a TWF Ranger using the no-casting variant from Kobold Quarterly 11. If you haven't seen it, the only relevant ability they get is a Ranger Talent that replaces their one animal companion with two that use their full Ranger level as their effective Druid level (or at least, that's the reading my DM uses).

Anyway, the idea was to use snakes instead of my weapons for the first attack with each hand, and my DM agreed to let me do that, but we aren't sure exactly how to make it work. I was thinking of using my BAB and the snake's DEX score, but it'd be great if there were rules for this somewhere, though that seems unlikely. Obviously somethings will be immune to poison or just have really high Fort saves, so I'll just use my swords on them.

I'm also looking for ways to boost the poison's DC. I'm making this guy human so I can take the alternate racial feature Eye for Talent to give my snakes +2 CON. I'll also give them both Ability Focus and boost their CON in whatever other ways I can. I'll need to get this DC pretty high to be able to hurt most monsters, so I could really use help there. If there are any feats, 3.5 or Pathfinder, that help raise the DCs or damage done, that would be great.

A few little questions; does this idea seem viable, or is it gonna suck? It might be gestalt, and if it is I was thinking of using the Two-Weapon Warrior Fighter archetype, would this be a good idea? Are there any good Ranger Archetypes for this? I looked at the Beastmaster, but that doesn't seem to offer much.

Finally, a quick RAW question; how do I find the save DC for the poison? I think it's 10 + 1/2 HD + CON, but I'm not sure.

Thanks for any help, and please don't tell Samuel L. Jackson. :smalleek:

[Blyte]

I don't understand how having an animal companion would allow you to substitute your attacks for their own. You are using the snakes as weapons? Are you just making a novelty build? If so why are you concerned with things like how to optimize their poison?

If you want to optimize a ranger with two full strength druid equivalent animal companions, why not just use two (dire)tigers and all three of you take team work feats to smash stuff?

[Drelua]

It is mostly novelty, but I also want to be able to make it effective. With the snakes up my sleeve I'd be able to help them make their bite attacks, at least according to my DM, represented perhaps by my superior BAB. Once I start stacking the poison with Pathfinder's rule that every additional dose increases the DC by 2, once they fail one save they'll rapidly start failing more as the DC increases and their CON drops, bringing their HP and Fort with it. It really just strikes me as a cool idea, not an optimal one, but I want to make it work so I won't be useless in the campaign in which I end up using this character. the problem is that I want the poison to remain useful at high levels, which can be hard to do. I might be able to get the DC as high as 30, but at level 20 a lot of creatures aren't gonna have any trouble with that save.

[Blyte]

perhaps simulate this another way.

take summoner(senthesist) level 1. and build yourself a combat chasis that has tentacles that resemble snakes, take "adders strike" (so you can as a swift action apply contact poison to your tentacles... then take the rest of your levels as a 2WF ranger, maybe splash rogue as well for sneak attack dice and poison use.

[Amphetryon]

Akal's Poison Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4854.0) may be useful to you. Until the folks at the host website get things sorted out, copy the URL with "cache:" in front of it for a peek.

[Drelua]

perhaps simulate this another way.

take summoner(senthesist) level 1. and build yourself a combat chasis that has tentacles that resemble snakes, take "adders strike" (so you can as a swift action apply contact poison to your tentacles... then take the rest of your levels as a 2WF ranger, maybe splash rogue as well for sneak attack dice and poison use.

The problem with that is that I'd have to pay for the poison, which can get really expensive and the DCs quickly become trivial. There's also the problem that I'd only be able to use one dose of poison per round, since it's a swift action to apply, whereas there's no limit on how many times my snake would be able to do it a day for free without using up my swift action.


Akal's Poison Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4854.0) may be useful to you. Until the folks at the host website get things sorted out, copy the URL with "cache:" in front of it for a peek.

I can't get that link to work. I tried putting "cache:" in front of the URL a few different ways, but it kept asking for a username or password. How exactly should I type the URL?

[Blyte]

The problem with that is that I'd have to pay for the poison, which can get really expensive and the DCs quickly become trivial. There's also the problem that I'd only be able to use one dose of poison per round, since it's a swift action to apply, whereas there's no limit on how many times my snake would be able to do it a day for free without using up my swift action.

the swift action allows you to apply it to 2 body parts.

and best yet, it's in the rules... there is no rule about using a snake as a weapon.

[Drelua]

the swift action allows you to apply it to 2 body parts.

and best yet, it's in the rules... there is no rule about using a snake as a weapon.

Right, I guess that could work, but then I wouldn't have the option to use the snakes in the normal manner, and it would be very easy for my eidolon to get banished for the day when I only have a couple Summoner levels at high levels. I'd rather do a little bit of homebrewing than mimic the results I'm aiming for in a way that gives so many ways for me to lose the 'snakes' for the day, even if the poisons you can buy weren't so expensive with such low DCs, as I've already said.

[Blyte]

perhaps use your druid equivalent animal companion as a free resource for venom milking, find some great poisonous critters in the beastiary with the poison(s) you are looking for, up their HD (thus increasing their DCs).

and use it as injury poison with the adder strike proficiency (asking your DM to homebrew that you can use it on your manufactured weapons).

this way you don't have to go broke, it's semi legit, and no animals are harmed by you using them as clubs...

you are on the right track with things like eye for talent, you can also perhaps get them some constitution items..

perhaps take the feat that let's you give a familiar evolution points, if your DM will let you use it on your animal companion and buy it the venom evolution, so it will have 2 venom effects per application.

it's a 2 pointer:
"Poison (Ex)
Eidolon poison—type poison (injury); save Fort negates; frequency 1/round for 4 rounds; effect 1d4 Str damage; cure 1 save.

The save DC is equal to 10 + 1/2 the eidolon’s HD + the eidolon’s Constitution modifier.

For 2 additional evolution points, this poison deals Constitution damage instead. This poison can be used no more than once per round. The summoner must be at least 7th level before selecting this evolution."

if you are the sufficient level where you can have vermin animal companions there are some str/dex poisons, or there are con poisons if you go with snakes & frogs.

if you go with con, buying the evolve familiar[companion in this case] feat twice, and going with a big HD snake, I would recommend complimenting that with weapons that do con damage (wounding+puncturing rapiers), and perhaps there are feats that do con damage on criticals as well, don't feel like researching that one.

anyhow, good luck!

[Amphetryon]

I can't get that link to work. I tried putting "cache:" in front of the URL a few different ways, but it kept asking for a username or password. How exactly should I type the URL?
Just keep clicking the username/password box to close, presuming "cache:" is in front. It should go away, though the format will remain wonky. That's what happened here.