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Kalaska'Agathas
2011-11-02, 04:13 PM
So, I'm building a Bard to play in a Curse of the Crimson Throne campaign (so no spoilers please). I'd like to focus on supporting the rest of my party (a Fighter, a Rogue, and an Oracle) with IC and buff spells, and serve as a Face otherwise as the character is a professional criminal, specializing in cons and "procurements".

As far as house rules go, we're allowed to use Pathfinder or 3.5 versions of things, whichever we prefer, and any published WotC or Paizo product (though the DM is iffy on Dungeon and Dragon material). We'll be starting at level one, and I think I want to go straight Bard (using 3.5 Bardic Music, but Pathfinder's Bard otherwise). I'll likely be taking Bardic Knack, and if they work together I'll be taking Jack of All Trades as well. I'm not sure what other ACFs might be of use, so if you have suggestions, I'd like to hear them. I want to go Human, for the Bonus Spells Known favored class bonus. I could use suggestions for spells, stats (28 Point Buy, using PF's point buy system), feats, ACFs, and how to spend my GP (I have 105 GP to start).

I don't think I'll be able to take any templates, but if I can I'll either take the Draconic Creature Template (to open up Dragon Fire Inspiration) or the Shadow Creature Template (or Dark, if Shadow Creature is too much).

Anyways, this is the build so far:

Human Bard 1

Str: 12
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 16
Wis: 7
Cha: 18

ACFs:
Bardic Knowledge -> Bardic Knack

Feats:
Level 1: Weapon Finesse
Human: Jack of all Trades

Further Feats:

I'll be taking Versatile Performer (Complete Adventurer) at level 3, so that I can have all of my Versatile Performance Perform skills (I should be getting four of them, and with a 16 Int I'll get four Perform skills for the price of one) based on one skill. After that, I would like to take Song of the Heart, Words of Creation, (maybe) Subsonics, Melodic Casting, Dragon Fire Inspiration (if I can snag the Draconic Creature Template), and maybe Snowflake Wardance. That would leave me with one feat open (two if I can't get DFI, three without Subsonics), but I'm open to other options, if you think there are superior choices about.

Traits:
Missing Daughter (+1 to Will Saves)
Canter (speaks thieves' cant, +5 to give and understand secret messages)

HP: 10

Saves:
Fort: +2
Ref: +4
Will: +1


If you have any questions or need clarification on anything, let me know. Thanks for all your help, Playground.

***

On another note, does the Guide to Korvosa contain any spoilers to Curse of the Crimson Throne? I'm considering picking it up, to enhance my knowledge of the setting, but I don't want to spoil the details of the campaign.

Kalaska'Agathas
2011-11-05, 10:20 PM
I've received permission from The Glyphstone to bump this thread.

Anyhow, I'm still waiting for an answer from my DM regarding the templates and the way Bardic Knack will work (and interact with Jack of All Trades), but I still could use some help equipping my character and picking spells. So, without further ado:

At first level, I will know five cantrips (thanks to the Human favored class bonus) and two first level spells. Here's what I'm thinking so far:

Cantrips:

Prestidigitation (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/prestidigitation)
Read Magic (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/read-magic)
Detect Magic (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/detect-magic)
Message (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/message)
Summon Instrument (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/summon-instrument)

I'm not entirely sure about Summon Instrument though, as my first perform is going to be Oratory, and so it might need replacing with Dancing Lights (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/dancing-lights), Ghost Sound (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/g/ghost-sound), Light (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/l/light), Lullaby (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/l/lullaby), Mage Hand (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/mage-hand), or Songbird (Spell Compendium). If you have a suggestion for a better selection of cantrips, let me know.

First level spells:

Inspirational Boost (Complete Adventurer)
Silent Image (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/silent-image)

There are a lot of other spells that are good choices as well. If you can think of some that would serve better at this level (keep in mind I'm the only Arcane Caster in the party), I'd love to hear about them.


As far as equipment goes, I'm less sure of what to buy. I'd like to have a rapier (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/rapier) and a dagger (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/dagger) or two, and maybe a whip (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/whip) for weapons, with leather armor (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/armor/leather) and possibly a buckler (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/armor/buckler) for armor. All that would cost me 50gp.

But beyond that, I'm not sure what to get - ideally I'd have the tools for various criminal activities, and the tools of the adventuring trade, but I doubt I'll be able to get all of that on a budget of 105gp (or, rather, the 55gp I'll have after I've bought my weapons and armor). So what should I prioritize?

Thanks again for any help you can give me.

kulosle
2011-11-05, 10:45 PM
subsonics is only useful if you think you'll be sneaking around a lot. most bards don't take it
snowflake war dance and DFI are traps. adding charisma to just attacks isn't as usefull as the a bardic music attempt and same with DFI it only adds to damage and not to hit. you do need both as a bard. a two level dip into paladin with divine performer is always good for a bard, especially with sword to song (turns smite attempts into bardic music attempts) or the harmonizing knight variant (more bardic music). a dip into warblade is also nice if you take song of the white raven. take a look at this (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869994/?pg=last)

Kalaska'Agathas
2011-11-05, 11:05 PM
subsonics is only useful if you think you'll be sneaking around a lot. most bards don't take it
snowflake war dance and DFI are traps. adding charisma to just attacks isn't as usefull as the a bardic music attempt and same with DFI it only adds to damage and not to hit. you do need both as a bard. a two level dip into paladin with divine performer is always good for a bard, especially with sword to song (turns smite attempts into bardic music attempts) or the harmonizing knight variant (more bardic music). a dip into warblade is also nice if you take song of the white raven. take a look at this (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869994/?pg=last)

Yeah, I don't think Subsonics will be the way to go given the party composition. Snowflake Wardance might not be the best, either, but DFI seems like it would have its uses. Namely when the party doesn't really need the bonus to hit and could use more damage output. Paladin wouldn't work due to my alignment (Chaotic Neutral), and because there's already one in the party so I'd rather not step on any toes. Warblade does make a good dip (though, usually, that gets turned around - Bard is the dip for a Warblade or Crusader with Song of the White Raven) but not for what I'm doing. I'm more interested in social skills and buffing the party than I am in being a straight up combat monster myself. Additionally, as there's already a Fighter in the party, it'd be somewhat bad form to run a Warblade (or Bardblade).

Again, what I'm looking for is to be a skill monkey (with a focus on social skills) and a party buffer. To that end, I was wondering what the Playground thought of Wanderer's Diplomacy or Master Manipulator (both from Player's Handbook II)? They seem to add uses to my skills that I wouldn't have otherwise - are they worth a feat slot? Are there other feats out there that would help me achieve the character I'm trying to - that is, a smooth talking jack of all trades who makes everyone better at what they do and seems to have something they can do, no matter the situation?

kulosle
2011-11-06, 02:47 AM
a dip into marshal is also good, every odd level lets you choose a minor aura and there is one where you get to add your cha mod to skills based off of you of your attributes. add your cha to all cha based skills as 1 level dip. and you could still keep warblade as a dip just don't take too much of it. also the divine performer feat lets you be lawful as a bard if you are okay with changing you alignment, which would also let you take nymphs kiss +1 skill point per level and +2 to cha based skills. as far as being a skill monkey a 3 level dip into factotum is amazing add your in to all dex and str based skills and checks, including initiative. also unless you have draconic heritage to make you DFI a different type the fire damage ends up being resisted a lot.

i personally don't find master manipulator useful, but wanderers diplomacy is great if you DM lets you use the uncanny merchant part. the rest of it is so so.

Kalaska'Agathas
2011-11-06, 03:02 AM
a dip into marshal is also good, every odd level lets you choose a minor aura and there is one where you get to add your cha mod to skills based off of you of your attributes. add your cha to all cha based skills as 1 level dip. and you could still keep warblade as a dip just don't take too much of it. also the divine performer feat lets you be lawful as a bard if you are okay with changing you alignment, which would also let you take nymphs kiss +1 skill point per level and +2 to cha based skills. as far as being a skill monkey a 3 level dip into factotum is amazing add your in to all dex and str based skills and checks, including initiative. also unless you have draconic heritage to make you DFI a different type the fire damage ends up being resisted a lot.

i personally don't find master manipulator useful, but wanderers diplomacy is great if you DM lets you use the uncanny merchant part. the rest of it is so so.

I'll check out Marshall, though I don't remember being particularly impressed the last time I did so. I'm not sure what I'd get from dipping Warblade (other than the obvious, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Maneuvers, Stances) as that would improve my combat abilities, sure, but would lessen my skills, spells, and music (unless I take a feat). Since I'm less focused on my character's combat skills, that doesn't benefit the build as much as it might others (though being able to activate IC as a swift action is tempting). Factotum 3 would be great (especially for a character with a higher Int), except that it would hinder my Bardic Knack, prevent me from getting one of my Versatile Performance skills, and keep me from my sixth level spells (I'm told this adventure path runs from level 1 to 17).

Also, as we're using PF stuff as well, Bards can be lawful. It's just that in describing my character to the DM, he decided that I was "Chaotic Neutral with Good tendencies" so changing alignment wouldn't be an option (unless I totally recreated the character). Additionally, he doesn't meet the fluff requirements for Nymph's Kiss, and I already got the DM to allow Words of Creation despite my character not being exalted, so I don't want to push too hard. And, frankly, with Versatile Performance, Versatile Performer, and Bardic Knack, I'll probably be the most skilled character in the party regardless. I'm less looking for more skills (or strictly more bonuses to them) and more looking for ways to expand how I can use them.

As far as DFI and Fire being commonly resisted go, I don't know if that will be a problem in a published adventure which (presumably) takes place mostly in and around a city. If it is an issue, I'll fit in Draconic Heritage.

Thanks for the suggestions regarding Wanderer's Diplomacy and Master Manipulator.