Help in making good custom armor for a mid-low level tank

[Autolycus84]

Hi everyone,

I'm hoping y'all could help me when I request our party's artificer to make me some custom armor. I am basically the only character that melees extensively, so I've been taking a beating lately. I don't want anything too fancy. I was mostly looking at improved AC (in particular Table 6-11 the adding/improving common effects list' from the MIC). Other things that looked good to add were Mind Armor, Quickness, Speed, a Heraldic Crest of Courage, and Called. Oh, lastly, my character is somewhat of a charger, so keeping the mobility of a breastplate would be ideal.

What other things would be good, and how would I go request this to the party's artificer? We are level 8 and the artificer has a custom item that lets her craft at a +4 CL. We also don't need to worry about EXP costs for the artificer. The artificer is a first-time player, and our DM doesn't feel like tracking XP costs, so long story short she makes items with a 40% discount of listed price.

I have about 30K to spend. I have a total of 48K gold, but our DM doesn't like it when we spend all our gold on one item for some reason.

So, there ya have it. All input is greatly appreciated. Help me so the monsters don't get me! :smallbiggrin:

[Autolycus84]

Searching around the forums a bit I found something interesting. While the penalty to Jump makes me a little leary, a Mechanus Plate from Planar Handbook made of mithril might be a good start. I'm not sure how my character would like the motif, but it fits right in with something a Warforged artificer would make given free reign to "make me your finest armor" (which is all my character would probably say in character.)

Would that armor start as a +1 for purposes of determining the cost of bonus attributes such as Death Ward?

[Autolycus84]

Oh, and if it helps any, I'm actually only level 7. Everyone else is 8. I'm a half-ogre (4 natural armor) with 25 strength.

[marcielle]

Miss chance. Get a good miss chance on a cape. Remember, 75% miss chance NEVER decreases in efficiency whereas you'll need to replace/upgrade your armor every 3 levels at least. Miss chance does not get affected by shocktrooper. Miss chance doesn't care if you are fighting a blind kobold or the Big T. Miss chance is beastest.

[Darrin]

To make the best recommendation, we need to know your Dex bonus. Also, your budget/available funds and what sourcebooks you have access to would help quite a bit.

[Autolycus84]

I have 14 DEX, so a +2 bonus. I umm, wrote this in my TLDR OP, but I'd like to spend around 30K, but I have 50K total thereabouts.

All books are allowed in theory.

[faceroll]

Remember, 75% miss chance NEVER decreases in efficiency.

Except after about level 8 when True Seeing becomes increasingly common on outsiders. There's also blindsight, tremorsense, see invisibility, and ghost touch, all which dramatically decrease the functionality of your miss chance. There's also the mage slayer line.

It's no panacea, but it can help against big dumb animals, like dinosaurs.

[marcielle]

True but there are just as many ways to beat normal armor. Such as the high Str scores prevalent later in the game. True strike. Touch attacks. And the people who have true seeing, ghost touch and see invisibility(spellcasters in general) really won't be making many attack rolls anyway. Or they would be touch attacks and your armor would still do near nothing. 50K is JUST enough for major displacement cloak and you'll directly cut meelee damage down to a quarter for the rest of the game. Blindsight and tremor might be a problem if you are in an underground heavy campaign though. In that case armor might actually be more effective. Guess it depends on your campaign then but miss chance is generally cooler IMO.:smallbiggrin:

[faceroll]

True but there are just as many ways to beat normal armor. Such as the high Str scores prevalent later in the game. True strike. Touch attacks. And the people who have true seeing, ghost touch and see invisibility(spellcasters in general) really won't be making many attack rolls anyway. Or they would be touch attacks and your armor would still do near nothing. 50K is JUST enough for major displacement cloak and you'll directly cut meelee damage down to a quarter for the rest of the game. Blindsight and tremor might be a problem if you are in an underground heavy campaign though. In that case armor might actually be more effective. Guess it depends on your campaign then but miss chance is generally cooler IMO.:smallbiggrin:

1. Mageslayer. If you're really going to be denying all the DM's monsters 75% of attacks, you should expect it to show up more. Things with mageslayer are going to have a lot of attacks.

2. Potions, oils, & scrolls. If you're any good at all optimizing encounters, you'll realize that NPC wealth is best put into consumables used just prior to combat. And you can even give them partially charged wands. :smallbiggrin:

3. Some of the most dangerous creatures- devils, demons, dragons- all have copious numbers of attacks, coupled with ways to get around your displacement (like dispel).

4. Armor vs. higher BAB & strength scores isn't as binary as magical miss chance. If you have 10 armor and 75% miss chance from an item, then either you are going to get hit 25% of the time (monster cannot get around your effect), or you are going to get hit 95% of the time (monster gets around your effect). With an optimized armor score, you're getting hit anywhere from 5% of the time to 95% of the time.

5. You can get your touch AC sky high. Depending on optimization level, you may or may not be wearing armor.

[The Boz]

After a certain level, AC stops being an amazing defense. DR and flat miss chance become more effective.

[faceroll]

After a certain level, AC stops being an amazing defense. DR and flat miss chance become more effective.

Would you mind defending this assertion? Miss chance becomes increasingly easier to circumvent as opponents get access to more abilities. Does damage reduction ever get over DR 3/-?

AC at higher levels determines how much monsters get to power attack you for.

[Provengreil]

---self snip, accidental submission. see below for real comment---

[The Boz]

Just personal experience.
BAB becomes equal to AC from armor, Dex can't outdo Str because of MaxDex, enchantment beats enchantment, charge happens etc.

[Provengreil]

After a certain level, AC stops being an amazing defense. DR and flat miss chance become more effective.

arguably not, but it's a question of definition.

A 15th level fighter can get himself to about 60 AC if he is fine with having no damage output whatsoever. naturally this won't work very well because you need to balance the two, but but basically if you put enough gp into your armor class, you won't be hit as much, and it IS possible to keep it high while having at least some low damage. an armor class around this level is going to keep you safe...from anything that actually attacks you normally, which is decreasingly common in later levels.

That, of course, is the issue. dragons have an absolutely vicious full attack, but it's also usually their last resort if the DM didn't give them blood wind. quite a lot of enemies will have abilities that target you in different ways that don't care what your AC is. fear, paralysis, touch attacks, many, many spells, etc. not only does all of this ignore AC, the wealth you spent on that AC could have been spent increasing the very saves these spells target.

So yeah, big AC is possible and helpful, and can still be stacked with miss chances and DR, but the old saying generally remains true*: "a good offense is the best defence."

*might not be true for a given group, who could be low op and find good defesnses preferable, etc.

[faceroll]

Just personal experience.
BAB becomes equal to AC from armor, Dex can't outdo Str because of MaxDex, enchantment beats enchantment, charge happens etc.

Just inside of Core (assuming we have allied cleric and pearls of power), we can get an AC of 10 + 8 (mithril fullplate) + 5 (enhancement) + 5 (defending armor spikes) +3 (dex bonus) + 4 (animated tower shield) + 5 (enhancement) + 5 (ring of protection) +5 (amulet of protection). That's 50 AC, for 161k in gp. Still have plenty left to buy other things (like some displacement).

A balor & pit fiend only hit you on criticals. Dragons hit you about 60% of the time with their primary attack (or all of them if they're using improved multiattack).

[vitkiraven]

Okay, how does +15 to AC work for you for light armor, for 26100?

(Lot's o' Cheese)
+2 Reinforced Chain Shirt, with Greater Screening Crystal
+2 Reinforced Dastana, with greater lifekeeping crystal,
and +2 Reinforced Chahar-aina with Lesser crystal of (arrow) deflection?

gives you bonuses to touch ac vrs undead, bonuses to save vrs die stuff, and bonuses against ranged attacks?

EDIT: As an aside, I'd add M.W. spikes to either the chain shirt, the dastana, or the chahar-aina (if not all of the above), for weapon enhancements later.

EDIT 2: Messed up a bit... corrected as follows:

+11 to AC, 26100

+2 Reinforced Chain Shirt (+7)
+1 Reinforced Dastana with Mobility (+2)
+1 Reinforced Chahar-aina with Light Fortification. (+2)

with all of the crystals... not so good after all, now if 3.5 Arms and Armor are allowed, I can kit you in something absolutely stupid, but that's 3rd party.

[JaronK]

Yeah, I was also going to suggest the Oerthblood Mithral Chain Shirt/Dastanas/Mithral Chahar-aina. That would let you spread the enchantments out and thus save a lot of money, and it's +6 AC with no armor check penalty or slowing (it's all light armor). Might want to make the Dastanas out of some interesting material as well.

Note that there's a feat in one of the Dragon magazines that lets you make special mundane armor options including decreased weight and increased AC.

JaronK

[vitkiraven]

Yeah, I was also going to suggest the Oerthblood Mithral Chain Shirt/Dastanas/Mithral Chahar-aina. That would let you spread the enchantments out and thus save a lot of money, and it's +6 AC with no armor check penalty or slowing (it's all light armor). Might want to make the Dastanas out of some interesting material as well.

Note that there's a feat in one of the Dragon magazines that lets you make special mundane armor options including decreased weight and increased AC.

JaronK

That's where I nabbed the "reinforced" quality from (+1 to the armor rating for any armor for like 650 gp. Yes please). I thought about mithral, but ultimately decided against it, as I thought the character was a half ogre, and they ain't gonna do too much sneakin' around (what with size penalty and all).
And if the penalty is that much of a concern, there is alwys the superior masterwork stuff from dragonlance. ;)